ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 8

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Not meaning to be rude, but was there a link to someone saying the dog was there? (truly seeking knowledge, so just say yes and I will go search it out) I may have missed that in the interview. I heard that the calls were about the dog, but not that the dog was with Kaylee. I mean, if J did have the dog, maybe Kaylee wanted to have him bring the dog over, you see? And if she did have the dog, she would not have left it outside, so she would not have been asleep during the attack (unless she was so inebriated that she passed out before letting the dog back in. Which leads to maybe let the dog out, let the dog in and the dog escaped during the attack.

The dog and where it was (not barking or defending, possibly running for it's own life) brings a whole other level into this.
I haven’t seen anything that, for sure, places the dog at the house & have been wondering the same thing. If I was driving back to school for the weekend just to show off my new car & party a bit, I wouldn’t necessarily bring my dog for an hour & a half drive. Doggo could’ve also been with the boyfriend in the first place.
 
As far as suspects go I am not sure which way I lean. A random person who just happened to enter this house and commit these murders seems unlikely. The stalker theory is a possibility, but the distance between staking and murder ,not to mention multiple murders, is a pretty big leap. Another possibility is a scorned ex, but that is usually a very specific person crime. This seemed like a vendetta against multiple members of this house. If this was meant for a specific person, then why kill the others? I feel there is more to this story as far as a possible motive. It is possible that more than one person in this house was targeted.

I’ve been wondering if it’s more about the house itself rather than the specific people/personal connections. I wonder if anyones made any complaints about the house, noise/partying, parking.
 
Bizarre that

perp could have had on night vision goggles. Even if it was someone that know the layout, there could have a pair of shoes on the floor.

it just seems planned and performed by someone with skill to be able to incapacitate 2 sets of victims
The " good vibes" lights are neon and were probably on, imo. And college kids typically have a light on always
 
I haven't seen this in the timeline so I'll ask...if we know:
Was the takeout food from the grub truck already eaten - in other words they were home, ate the food, made the calls to male friend, went to bed? Then everything went down.
Or not eaten...and they potentially walked into a situation, made desperate calls to the male.
The 10 calls were spread out over a 30 minute period so that doesn’t seem desperate.
 
This was probably the guys first kill. Maybe he was just watching them, noticed that they all went to sleep, and saw that the door was open so he went to kitchen and grabbed a knife. The multiple stab wounds indicate this guy had no experience and was just frantically stabbing. Something made him snap that day and one thing evolved to another. There was some kind of rage that led the person to do it with a house full of people. A triggering event.
This makes sense to me. A random social media stalker of one of them perhaps. And she posted something that enraged him in jealousy and everyone else just got in the way.
 
I've only posted here once or twice so bear with me as someone who's read a lot of Agatha Christie recently, I'm personally thinking a lot more about the psychology of the case, not necessarily who did it.

To me, when I look at it, the single most mind-boggling thing is that there were ZERO 911 calls from the house. If you think about it, for one murderer to take on 4 people, even asleep, is a huge task considering that all it takes is for 2 people to call the police (one to distract the murderer, one to make the call) or even 1 if the murderer doesn't get to the victim fast enough. Given that, IMO, the murderer HAD to know the layout of the house. I don't just mean Zillow, I mean the killer had to know the layout of every room, how the furniture was laid out. Think about it. This thing happened in the dead of night and if the murderer turns on lights, that will likely alert people way before the murderer wants to. And even then, all it takes is a stray backpack full of college books to send the murderer flying and possibly wake someone up. And, here's the important part, this is a party house, yes, but also, I would imagine, a house where girls don't just invite random people into their bedrooms, especially on the 3rd floor. So given the picture of complete darkness as the murderer is going through the house, the murderer has to know where the beds are located in the rooms, where everything is located as well as possible. That's not a random stranger, that spells targeting, which is what LE was reporting at the start.
Now, there are reports of defensive wounds but still no 911 call, which means that the people fighting back were only doing so one at a time. Otherwise, a second person definitely would have made a 911 call even if all they can do is leave the phone on the line, that would have brought the cops in minutes.
For lack of a better word, this feels like someone who has practice; I won't be surprised to find this person might have military experience or background or training of some kind and quite possibly also might have used night vision goggles. The dog, assuming it was in the house, is also a tip-off. Dogs in general are unpredictable and I would guess the murderer is probably someone the dog knows. Sure, some dogs might go run and hide, but not all dogs will, even all the time. The murderer KNOWS the dog will not alert anyone.
I definitely agree about practice and/or training. There are people who, with training, can do exactly as you describe in your post despite darkness which probably only partial in that house. Moon was full on 11/8 and waned to 3/4 on 11/16, plus most homes have devices which emit light (electronics) and despite unfamiliarity with the furnishings in the home.

I think that it is looking more and more like the work of a serial killer, maybe someone who is new at it but has some training, or someone with a history of doing this. I wonder if the killer views it as a failure since he/she left two victims alive, or if that, in itself, was intentional.
 
Lots of speculation that the roommate didn’t actually “see” an unconscious (dead) victim. Door could have been locked by the killer, or perhaps she just tried to get a response by calling and texting and yelling and could hear the phone ringing in the bedroom upstairs but did not get any response. they Roommate may have then decided to call for someone to help “rouse” the individual and that person decided that it was something to call 911 about.
All I do know is that nothing, not the people, not the time of the call, not the circumstances of what we know and don’t know have anything at all to do with the actual murder. They have all been explicitly cleared by LE. Fini. And everyone is fixated on this, when it boils down to a bunch of bird brained children running around trying to make sense of something that is entirely not normal. And everyone is fixated on carrying on and trying to explain something and an event that is entirely inexplicable.
Thank you for saying this. I’ve also seen a lot of people asking why the surviving roommates didn’t go around to all of the other rooms to try to see where the other roommates were and/or why they were inside the house when the 911 call was placed but not when the police arrived. While I might have missed it I haven’t seen anyone suggest that the 911 operator would have told them to go outside in case a threat remained inside the house. Isn’t that standard? JMO but I have always been led to believe that it is. You do not send anyone into a situation where they might also become a victim of a crime.
 
The above is why I do not support the theory that Ethan was lying dead in the middle of the second floor or even in the bedroom doorway. You cannot correlate 'passed out' with stabbed to death. Even if he was face down he would still be bleeding. And LE stated all victims were in bed. I believe the bedroom door was locked and someone was worried that he was unconsciousness due to not responding to calls or knocks. Moo
This is me thinking out loud. If it was cold and E got up to check on a noise, might he have had a blanket around him? A collapsed body in the hallway with a blanket is (surprise....) not unusual in any college house that ever had a party. If they aren't in your way, you let them sleep. If wrapped in a blanket or comforter, someone might come up behind them and kick them (standard practice) to "wake up". If you kicked several times and they didn't move or groan, you might panic. Especially with all the SADS going on.

I can't say I trust the exact words of the coroner, because she contradicted herself a couple of time. There was "Some were in beds", then to the question "Were they in bed?" the answer "Yes". Just throwing that out there.

I don't disagree with the Bedroom locked theory, either. If either X or E were the targets, and the door could be locked and shut behind someone, that could work. And the dog, if it were there, could have barked and been ignored by the downstairs roommates.

Until we know the order of the kills (and LE knows that), the conjecture is difficult.
 
The 10 calls were spread out over a 30 minute period so that doesn’t seem desperate.
I agree, and I think the calls are not relevant to the investigation except for documenting the last hours of the victims' lives. It is not unusual for young people to drunk dial someone repeatedly, especially if it's meant in jest. I am in my early 30s and have certainly done the same in the past while inebriated.
 
LE seems stated White hoodie Grub truck guy, private car driver, 2 other roommates all ruled out as suspects. Why has LE not included ex-boyfriend, "J", who victims called multiple times before being slaughtered by murderer. "J" would know patterns of roommates; familiar with and co-owner of victim's dog; and knows the layout of entire house. I think it speaks volumes that LE has yet to add "J" to list of cleared suspects mentioned in press releases.

Why would he kill the couple though In their bed though? He could have stealthily entered and went straight to the 3rd floor
 
I don't think so. They announce at the beginning of the stream, "okay it's ten" and opened up. Then K&M leave 3 hours and 52 mins into the stream. I think it was pretty precise IMO.
correct, the stream went live at 9:58pm and 1:30 into the stream a worker says "it's 10, let's start".

here are 3 different twitch tracking websites confirming the start time (the data is coming from twitch servers):
 
My thoughts about the trolling, related to Bundy, are that Bundy was a very good looking and charming, psychopatic man and I'm not sure if anyone whom he may have encountered on the street during a troll would have had a clue that he was up to something murderous. The same thought applies if any of these students might have met the killer around town, thereby landing on his/her radar..."just some charming person who bought me a drink.."
Excellent post! I nearly became the next “canal killer”s victim and he was just the nicest most polite pleasant boy you’d ever want to meet. (So yes, killers don’t broadcast how evil they are.)
 
I think it's interesting this person did not harm the dog. Maybe they're an animal lover.
The more I think about the more I think it could be a clue, especially if the deceased neighborhood dog is connected.

Where was the dog this whole time? Sorry if this has been addressed already, I missed where they think the dog was the whole time. Even if the dog was gone during the killing, it would've been whimpering and going nuts at the house after, no?
 
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