ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #1

[Elainera]

I think you might be right. Maybe Deorr was sitting happily at the campfire next to Gramps, and the parents thought it was a great opportunity to explore a bit while Deorr was preoccupied. If it hadnt been in a campground, but happened that way at their own home, it would not have been a problem. :cry:

I think you might be right because I cannot understand a scenario where Gramps is watching the baby, he vanishes, and then no one immediately begins calling out and searching. It does not make sense that he would just assume a 2 yr old could find his way through the woods to his family.

Maybe grandpa was searching for him. And when he couldn't find him assumed he had gone after his parents. Maybe at that moment the parents came back, and grandpa and parents both said "I thought he was with you."

 

[jmcgladr]

http://www.ktvb.com/story/news/local/idaho/2015/07/15/missing-boy-deorr-search-dogs/30209081/

The most recent news story I have read says that the search has ended up back at the reservoir, which is 4/10 of a mile away from the camp. The cadaver dogs are alerting to that area. Which, as the reporter points out, is not all that far away but also not right next door to the campsite. Do you think it's possible/probable he could have walked there himself? If so, I think it would have taken him far more time than the short time the parents say he was unaccounted for. Or... would he have had to be carried there by some person or animal? And why? It seems to me that even a very curious toddler would not naturally walk 4/10 of a mile AWAY from his family (if I am understanding the geography of the area right) through unfamiliar and daunting terrain all the way to a reservoir/lake that he had no idea was there. Mind you, he would not have a good sense of direction at his age. Possible? Or no?

 

[jmcgladr]

Thanks Katydid for the link about Omarion.

FWIW, not sure if this body float chart would be helpful to anyone. I was just looking at it and figured I'd put it out there. I seem to recall someone may have asked about it much earlier in this thread. If nothing else, it's informational. I remember we referred to this for Dylan (RIP beautiful boy of ours...)

http://www.pawsoflife.org/Library/Tr...float_info.pdf

Thanks for posting this - I'd be interested to see it, but the link didn't seem to load, for me anyway...

 

[TxJan1971]

Thanks for posting this - I'd be interested to see it, but the link didn't seem to load, for me anyway...

I had trouble clicking on the link - it wouldn't open. I went back to the original document where I saved this link, clicked on it, and it opened. Try this one, as it just worked:

http://www.pawsoflife.org/Library/Trailing Water/body_float_info.pdf

 

[jmcgladr]

Well, that's weird, IMO. I would definitely NOT be bringing a stranger who was an acquaintance of my grandfather's along on a camping outing with my baby! I would want to vet anyone who was going to be staying overnight in the vicinity of my baby. What if he was a pedophile? Murderer? Not to be paranoid but I think you should only camp with people you know pretty well.

(Sorry, forgot to hit "reply with quote," that was in response to a post a few pages back where someone mentioned NG had said the friend of Grandpa's who came on the camping trip was previously unknown to the family).

 

[Cardinal47]

http://www.ktvb.com/story/news/local/idaho/2015/07/15/missing-boy-deorr-search-dogs/30209081/

The most recent news story I have read says that the search has ended up back at the reservoir, which is 4/10 of a mile away from the camp. The cadaver dogs are alerting to that area. Which, as the reporter points out, is not all that far away but also not right next door to the campsite. Do you think it's possible/probable he could have walked there himself? If so, I think it would have taken him far more time than the short time the parents say he was unaccounted for. Or... would he have had to be carried there by some person or animal? And why? It seems to me that even a very curious toddler would not naturally walk 4/10 of a mile AWAY from his family (if I am understanding the geography of the area right) through unfamiliar and daunting terrain all the way to a reservoir/lake that he had no idea was there. Mind you, he would not have a good sense of direction at his age. Possible? Or no?

Tonight on NG they said it would take 5 to 6 hours to walk to that reservoir. Two years old and rough Terrain.

 

[jmcgladr]

I had trouble clicking on the link - it wouldn't open. I went back to the original document where I saved this link, clicked on it, and it opened. Try this one, as it just worked:

http://www.pawsoflife.org/Library/Trailing Water/body_float_info.pdf

Thanks - yes, that one worked. I imagine, from having camped up in the mountains around that area, that the stream and reservoir would be glacial runoff and still very cold, even in July. Therefore, it might take longer for a body to surface. Does anyone know what the approximate temperature in a lake there would be this time of year?

 

[Satchie]

http://www.ktvb.com/story/news/local/idaho/2015/07/15/missing-boy-deorr-search-dogs/30209081/
The search has ended up back at the reservoir, which is 4/10 of a mile away from the camp...Do you think it's possible/probable he could have walked there himself? If so, I think it would have taken him far more time than the short time the parents say he was unaccounted for.

I came across this info about the typical behaviour of various types of people who become lost in wilderness:

Small Children: Kids between ages one and six usually travel between 0.67 and 1.65 miles. The smallest ones between one and three, like Joshua Childers, have no idea they're lost. If they're separated from their parents, they have no ability to find their way; they wander aimlessly, and they typically don't go very far. They're usually found sleeping.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ben-sherwood/lost-how-a-three-year-old_b_198883.html

I think the problem is, while a family member is looking in one place, he could be wandering a little way off and not hear or see you.

 

[jmcgladr]

Yes, Trident. You are correct that Paulides has found in his research that young (and older) children often seem to go uphill, contrary what we might think. Also, as you stated, young children have been found in the middle of dense thickets or sometimes miles away - and sometimes without as many scratches as you would think they would have from fighting their way through the thick brush. That's why he feels that SARS and Park Rangers should re-evaluate how they search.

BTW - I almost hesitated to post about David and his research because of his connection to Bigfoot. However, I believe his work is important. I emailed him when I heard that Deorr was missing and he replied to my email saying that 300 people had already emailed him concerning this disappearance.

in what way(s) does Paulides think that SAR search procedures need to change? I don't have time to read a whole book at the moment (and I imagine you would need to special order a book like this) so could you please give a brief summary of his suggestions? I'm curious.

 

[Jules71]

Tonight on NG they said it would take 5 to 6 hours to walk to that reservoir. Two years old and rough Terrain.

That has to be incorrect. Maybe 5-6 MINUTES. When I mapped it, it said 0.2 miles and 5 mins walking. It was reported to be 4/10 of a mile. The map I posted a page or so back shows how close it is.

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[jmcgladr]

That has to be incorrect. Maybe 5-6 MINUTES. When I mapped it, it said 0.2 miles and 5 mins walking. It was reported to be 4/10 of a mile. The map I posted a page or so back shows how close it is.

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Yeah, that estimate seems off to me too. I used to walk to a bus stop that was 4/10 of a mile from my apartment. It took about 10 minutes (as a relatively fit 20-something) to walk to. Obviously, it would take longer for a toddler, and I wasn't walking through bush, but still doesn't seem it would take THAT much longer! Not 5 hours. But also not the 10-20 minutes the parents say they were away from the campsite for. Kids that age walk slowly and tire fairly quickly when walking.

 

[3blue1pink]

That has to be incorrect. Maybe 5-6 MINUTES. When I mapped it, it said 0.2 miles and 5 mins walking. It was reported to be 4/10 of a mile. The map I posted a page or so back shows how close it is.

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Yes ..... It has to be incorrect . There's no way it would take that long even with the shortest of legs.

 

[3blue1pink]

I have 3 and 4 year old Irish twins. Whenever we go to the beach they have to be " drug " up the hill to the parking lot . They tire super quickly . Yes it's sand but i doubt the rugged terrain is much harder to traverse . 20 mins they should've been able to find him if he was trying to climb the hill.

 

[katydid23]

That has to be incorrect. Maybe 5-6 MINUTES. When I mapped it, it said 0.2 miles and 5 mins walking. It was reported to be 4/10 of a mile. The map I posted a page or so back shows how close it is.

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I was just going to post the same thing. How does a half a mile take 5 or 6 hours of hiking?

 

[katydid23]

I don't see how he could have made it by walking to the resorvoir, uphill, without being seen by the family. Didn't they drive up that road and look? Or maybe they just ran around in the area by their camp site?

 

[Jules71]

The words "he is no longer up the mountain any more" keep coming back to me. I think they need to take the road (the one dad didn't know was there) and go up the mountain where you can see the entire campground from and search thoroughly.

Kunz Sr said: 'As his father I believe, and a lot of people agree with me, that he is no longer up the mountain anymore.'*

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[angelbaker]

The words "he's no longer up on that mountain" keep coming back to me. I think they need to take the road (the one dad didn't know was there) and go up the mountain where you can see the entire campground from and search thoroughly.

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Not speculating on the parents AT ALL (don't want a TO); BUT...why are they camping out there if they don't believe he is there anymore (as stated in the MSM interview)? Has new info came to light?


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[Jules71]

Not speculating on the parents AT ALL (don't want a TO); BUT...why are they camping out there if they don't believe he is there anymore (as stated in the MSM interview)? Has new info came to light?


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Good point! I know the sherrif wanted them to stay close.

But if I thought my child had been abducted, I would be flipping out that no one is looking for him outside of that campground.

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[shebear]

One thing is sticking out for me. In the interview the Dad says I went back to get little Deorr to show him "a minnow". I find that odd because he would've had to go 4/10 mile back to get him and then 4/10 back to the reservoir to show him "a minnow".
I don't know about you but "a minnow" is not going to be there when they get back. Minnows dont hang around like that and the wording of it just seems off .
Maybe I'm crazy but also in the beginning of the interview the wife sticks her tongue in her cheek and then when she glances at him I see that evil eye a wife gives a husband. She is glaring. Just finding it kinda off.
And then again I could be way over thinking it.

 

[Jules71]

One thing is sticking out for me. In the interview the Dad says I went back to get little Deorr to show him "a minnow". I find that odd because he would've had to go 4/10 mile back to get him and then 4/10 back to the reservoir to show him "a minnow".
I don't know about you but "a minnow" is not going to be there when they get back. Minnows dont hang around like that and the wording of it just seems off .
Maybe I'm crazy but also in the beginning of the interview the wife sticks her tongue in her cheek and then when she glances at him I see that evil eye a wife gives a husband. She is glaring. Just finding it kinda off.
And then again I could be way over thinking it.

They didn't say they went to the reservoir when they went to explore. They said they went 50 yards. They also said it was 10 minutes from time they saw him until dad came back to get him. But I agree, a minnow isn't likely to stick around.

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