ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #10

[rkf]

But FB didn't even have the correct day until 21 days after little Deorr disappeared. The conclusion drawn that LE didn't know the correct information because "we" didn't know it is really difficult to comprehend. IMO

IIRC, various timelines provided by MSM had the family arriving on Friday morning until the EIN interview with the sheriff on August 18th. I'm surprised (but maybe shouldn't be) that in speaking with LE over the preceding 5 1/2 weeks, no reporter ever clarified the family's arrival at the campsite. I'm equally surprised that LE never corrected the reporters' mistake if they already knew the correct arrival date/time. But again, maybe I shouldn't be surprised.

ETA: The EIN timeline still has the family arriving at the campsite on Friday.

Friday July 10
Deorr Kunz Jr, his father, mother, great-grandfather, and a family friend travel 120 miles from Idaho Falls to Timber Creek Campground in Leadore.
http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/07/deorr-kunz-disappearance-a-timeline-of-events/

 

[Cardinal47]

Does anyone remember the Shannon Matthews case in the UK? I do - being from the UK the story was all over the news here. Shannon was never actually missing, she was hidden, and this was planned by Shannon's mum in order to gain money from the publicity. For some reason a comparison between the Matthews case and this case popped into my head during the early hours this morning when I couldn't get to sleep. It went something along the lines of: is a great way to raise money. When I awoke this morning and was revisiting this case I came across the Idaho Supreme Court Data Repository - it makes for interesting reading.

Note: I am not implying anything, just think this scenario is just as likely than many others I've read on here, if not more so.

You make a good point and something I too have thought about.

But in order to really get a account rolling in the $$ there has to be lots of noise about the missing person.

It's so quiet you can hear a pin drop.

MOO

 

[BlkMtnGirl]

For what it's worth, I have some observations.
We took our baby, who is four days younger than DeOrr, on a hike today. We are outdoors a lot, and this case has made me paranoid and observant (the poor kid has to wear a lighted ankle bracelet). This particular trail is considered moderately easy, with a moderate climb (200ft elevation gain), and lots of obstacles like rocks and roots. The baby practically ran the whole way up, climbing up and over large rocks and logs. He refused to stop and rest for more than a few seconds. When given the lead, he followed the trail, but I was surprised to note that he was quick to veer off onto any smaller trails along the way. When we got to an open field, he completely ignored the trail and we had to rein him back in. There was a small outcrop of rocks (a "tunnel," he said, referring to Thomas the Train) that he crawled under (we took him over to the rocks for a picture and let him play a bit). He got so far back in there that my husband had to crawl in after him on his belly. No fear! Coming back down was a lot harder for him than going up. He was still practically running (so peaceful for others on the trail I'm sure, to hear us hollering, "slow down!" over and over.) The trail is not quite a mile in length, so we walked about two miles round trip. When we got to the car, he didn't want to leave; he wanted to "walk" more!
The takeaway...
1) Two miles was nothing for this kid to walk/run. He was going fast, even on rough terrain. I believe he could easily have gone another two miles, although he was starting to stumble more (but that could have been due to the downhill path.)
2) He had no fear of heights, no fear of the dark "tunnel."
3) He was asking for water frequently. I think *maybe* he would understand that he could get water from a creek, and left to his own devices, might try to get water from a creek (or lake, or whatever.) It's hard to say if he would equate a creek with drinking water, but he very well might, since he drinks his share of pool water. I say all that because I think there might be a chance DeOrr walked a long way and then fell into a body of water far away from the campsite.

One more thing. If you've read this far, you won't mind me rambling a bit longer... It's been more than twenty years since I had a two-year-old to take care of. I had completely forgotten how *difficult* it is to keep a close eye on them at all times. It is really, really hard. Strangely, I notice that it is even *more difficult* when there are more people around because everyone thinks somebody else will notice the baby straying (or getting into the birthday cake, or whatever.) Just an observation.

 

[rkf]

Yes: He was watching the child. He was watching the child follow right behind his parents. Lol

So he was not ask to babysit the child or he would have told the child to comeback here.

Ggp said it loud and clear. He saw the kid following them in their direction; So he assumed that they were all together.

So why are they using ggp to act like they didn't know that their kid was following them?

What parents don't constantly look back to see if their toddler is running behind them. I bet the kid took off after mom and dad 2 seconds after they started walking.

I agree he would have followed his parents.

DKS: This little boy he’s a goer and a mover but he’s not, he does not go away from his parents. He does not…
JM: Yeah he’s very attached to us.
NE: So this is very unusual.
DKS: Very, very unusual, sir.

[video=youtube;mwM1oG3z358]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwM1oG3z358[/video]

 

[Cardinal47]

Me, too.

Some possibilities:

1. Never happened
2. Parents WERE right there and ggp saw them see DeOrr go over the embankment
3. Ggp was incapacitated by deteriorating mental health (though the family says no dementia), IQ or substance, so he couldn't process what was happening.


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Ok just something I would like to 'put on the table'. A lot of people talk different. GGP saying DeOrr went over the embankment might simply mean he went up and and kind of out of sight where GGP last saw JM and DK.

It's kind of a Southern Thing.

Doesn't mean he fell down in a creek or down a hill. Just means he was walking along and due to the up and down of the pavement he went out of sight.

Just throwing it out there.

MOO

 

[rkf]

<modsnip>

I don't think it's his age, so much as being on oxygen that would make it difficult for ggp to chase down a two year-old or call out to the parents for help if DeOrr was to sprint away.

 

[kammiemc]

Sheeeeeesh

They did arrive at the campsite Thursday

They did arrive at the campsite Friday , after their trip to the store

I am amazed how folks try create a monster that does not exist.

My goodness, that was an example. I will change it to "99% sure the sky is blue." I fully believe that they arrived when LE's investigation said they did. I, like the sheriff, am 99% sure he was there. The sheriff was not creating a monster, nor am I.


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[Onebest]

Sheeeeeesh

They did arrive at the campsite Thursday

They did arrive at the campsite Friday , after their trip to the store

I am amazed how folks try create a monster that does not exist.

Sorry not trying to feed the monster but was it the same location on both Thursday and Friday? still confused with all the posting.

 

[Cardinal47]

BTW I do not believe DeOrr was 50 yards away from his GGP. I think it was 50 ft. The man made a mistake.

50 yards is 1/4 of a football field.

MOO

 

[Onebest]

I don't think it's his age, so much as being on oxygen that would make it difficult for ggp to chase down a two year-old or call out to the parents for help if DeOrr was to sprint away.

Yeah, age is not critical info. My hubby is 64, cancer, heart issues, stress, grief, all has nailed him physically he is down. I am 62 and zip around. All this discussion about age on paper doesn't mean a lot in the long run really... there are too many factors and not much as to do with gov age stipulations....

 

[Cardinal47]

Anybody else having problems with this thread loading up? TIA

 

[ILOKAL]

Yeah, age is not critical info. My hubby is 64, cancer, heart issues, stress, grief, all has nailed him physically he is down. I am 62 and zip around. All this discussion about age on paper doesn't mean a lot in the long run really... there are too many factors and not much as to do with gov age stipulations....

Well, then it might be more appropriate and accurate to just refer to GGPA BY his age rather than a term one might use such as "elderly".

 

[ILOKAL]

BTW I do not believe DeOrr was 50 yards away from his GGP. I think it was 50 ft. The man made a mistake.

50 yards is 1/4 of a football field.

MOO

Could you please be more specific. Which "man" made a mistake? TIA

Not being picky, but with all the he, him, his, man, they, their, etc without specific names has given a variety of interpretations to meanings of what was said.

 

[kammiemc]

Sorry not trying to feed the monster but was it the same location on both Thursday and Friday? still confused with all the posting.

Yes, they arrived at the campground for the first time on Thurs. They went to the store on Fri and returned to the same campground. Sorry if I am the one who confused anything.
(Early on some people were speculating that maybe they changed campgrounds, but that was not ever a possibility brought up by LE, MSM, SM, or by anyone, anywhere except for here. Hope that helps!)




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[Onebest]

For what it's worth, I have some observations.
We took our baby, who is four days younger than DeOrr, on a hike today. We are outdoors a lot, and this case has made me paranoid and observant (the poor kid has to wear a lighted ankle bracelet). This particular trail is considered moderately easy, with a moderate climb (200ft elevation gain), and lots of obstacles like rocks and roots. The baby practically ran the whole way up, climbing up and over large rocks and logs. He refused to stop and rest for more than a few seconds. When given the lead, he followed the trail, but I was surprised to note that he was quick to veer off onto any smaller trails along the way. When we got to an open field, he completely ignored the trail and we had to rein him back in. There was a small outcrop of rocks (a "tunnel," he said, referring to Thomas the Train) that he crawled under (we took him over to the rocks for a picture and let him play a bit). He got so far back in there that my husband had to crawl in after him on his belly. No fear! Coming back down was a lot harder for him than going up. He was still practically running (so peaceful for others on the trail I'm sure, to hear us hollering, "slow down!" over and over.) The trail is not quite a mile in length, so we walked about two miles round trip. When we got to the car, he didn't want to leave; he wanted to "walk" more!
The takeaway...
1) Two miles was nothing for this kid to walk/run. He was going fast, even on rough terrain. I believe he could easily have gone another two miles, although he was starting to stumble more (but that could have been due to the downhill path.)
2) He had no fear of heights, no fear of the dark "tunnel."
3) He was asking for water frequently. I think *maybe* he would understand that he could get water from a creek, and left to his own devices, might try to get water from a creek (or lake, or whatever.) It's hard to say if he would equate a creek with drinking water, but he very well might, since he drinks his share of pool water. I say all that because I think there might be a chance DeOrr walked a long way and then fell into a body of water far away from the campsite.

One more thing. If you've read this far, you won't mind me rambling a bit longer... It's been more than twenty years since I had a two-year-old to take care of. I had completely forgotten how *difficult* it is to keep a close eye on them at all times. It is really, really hard. Strangely, I notice that it is even *more difficult* when there are more people around because everyone thinks somebody else will notice the baby straying (or getting into the birthday cake, or whatever.) Just an observation.

Good post, thank you! Are you grandparent? If so, I am there completely. If not more power to you. As a Grammie who watches like a hawk I am all so aware of dangers, pit falls and evil. Remember the child leashes we used to see so often years ago? I think they should be reinstated. JMO, leash the child. Let the dog run free.

 

[Sheoftensaid]

IIRC, various timelines provided by MSM had the family arriving on Friday morning until the EIN interview with the sheriff on August 18th. I'm surprised (but maybe shouldn't be) that in speaking with LE over the preceding 5 1/2 weeks, no reporter ever clarified the family's arrival at the campsite. I'm equally surprised that LE never corrected the reporters' mistake if they already knew the correct arrival date/time. But again, maybe I shouldn't be surprised.

But WHY?? The police have said over and over that they think the chance of abduction is just about nil. They clearly think he's lost in the woods, in the water, or met his fate w an animal. They clearly don't think that the media reporting the time wrong will have any change whatsoever in the outcome. Why do you think over all the other things they could be doing, they would prioritize this?? Sure if they were thinking abduction, absolutely the timeline matters. I'm just so confused why so many people seem to feel entitled to knowing every little detail the police know and seem so hellbent on creating sinister drama. So a news report comes out tomorrow and says, "updated info: the family actually arrived Thursday!" And then what? What changes?? Nothing.

 

[Cardinal47]

Could you please be more specific. Which "man" made a mistake? TIA

Not being picky, but with all the he, him, his, man, they, their, etc without specific names has given a variety of interpretations to meanings of what was said.

GGP made a mistake.

 

[rkf]

It's hard to know who is being referred to regarding "line of sight". We must remember that what the sheriff is relaying in his interview/s is not a recording of what people actually said nor did he use the exact same words as were used by the witnesses. There have been so many statements made by the sheriff over and above all of his . . . Uh, uh, uh...uh, uh, uh's. . . That I'm beginning to think maybe Bowerman is not a good communicator and has created and added to much of the confusion. JMO.

I can add to the confusion.

Sheriff Bowerman: Primarily, the information we have is…grandpa is watching the child. He tells me he looks away momentarily. When he looks back, he’s gone, and he’s assumed he’s gone over the bank.

BBM Does the first "he" refer to ggp or someone else who told the sheriff what happened with ggp?

 

[Onebest]

kammiemc, yes thanks, helps...

 

[rkf]

And wasn't the incorrect information regarding the color of Deorr's eyes given to the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children? Did the parents deliberately provide that incorrect information too? Seems to me eye color would be more important in the case of an abducted child than when they arrived but that didn't get corrected within the first month . . . Has it BEEN corrected at all?

Good question. I know JM and the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children were all contacted directly to let them know the eye color was wrong. NCMEC required a family member or LE to contact them to make the change (so all of us who contacted NCMEC didn't do any good). Hard to believe if your child has been abducted that it wouldn't be a top priority to make sure the largest missing child clearinghouse in the country (maybe the world) has the correct eye color in their database/on missing posters. The eye color has still not been corrected. http://www.missingkids.com/poster/NCMC/1251277/1/screen