ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #11

[ReadySet]

I had not watched the parents' interview for several weeks, I just went back and watched the unedited interview.

The parents are, IMO, devastated and desperate. I don't believe they did anything to hurt little Deorr.
Like many, I don't have a definite theory of what happened. My first idea was the most obvious. Unsupervised toddler + body of water = child in the water. But, I have confidence in the searchers. If he was in the water, I believe they would have found him. Having said that, I still believe there is a chance he may have drowned.

My other ideas cannot be posted here. But I do have confidence in the Lemhi County Sheriff, other LE, and the FBI.

I hope and pray Deorr can be found soon.

 

[neesaki]

They are stealth, NOT shy! There are successful cougar hunts in the forest and many outfitters that service cougar hunts in the forest. They don't avoid campsites, but they stalk their chosen prey from a distance. When the opportunity presents itself, they pounce (up to 40 ft from a standstill and 20 ft up), grab their prey and then drag or carry it (depending what size) to an out of site area where they methodically begin to remove certain organs which they eat first. If the entire prey cannot be consumed at one time, they will bury it under leaves, sticks, brush to keep it out of site from other animals and to keep the food cool. They will return to it periodically. They will often kill more than they can consume. They are killers!

I appreciate all of this Ilokal, though I have to admit these "hunters" with their big **** eating grins on their faces make me ill. They're disgusting to me. As you can tell, I'm not a supporter of killing wild animals unless it's absolutely necessary for survival. I realize that there needs to be some control, but most of these hunters do it to make them feel like a man, because they're really not one. No different than the creepy Lion murdering dentist in Minnesota. JMO

 

[neesaki]

Probably because he didn't see him with his own eyes. JMO

And maybe no physical evidence or photos that would actually place him at the campsite.

 

[TeaTime]

Last week people were complaining that the parents weren't out in the public more. This week the parents are being penalized for giving an interview and their PI being interviewed. My goodness. What could they possibly do to please everyone? Not a thing because someone wouldn't like it.

If leads come in, they must be followed up on. Let's see what the artist rendering looks like from both of these witnesses. Would you just ignore this if you were the parents? No, I would be hoping against hope there was a lead that would bring my child back to me.

Forgive these people for their error in judgment, they want their baby back more than we do! Forgive them for not following some set of rules, written by someone who didn't get his child back alive. Come on. There is not a shred of evidence that they did anything other than think their child was being watched by GGP when they took a walk.

Just because the Sheriff thinks it was not an abduction doesn't mean the parents can't investigate the theory via a PI. They are still searching the land on weekends even though the searchers said there was nothing there. What else can they do?

I feel so sorry for them, my heart just breaks. And I will pray that he is returned alive and safe until I know it is not possible.

And THE ONLY way the boots do not fall off anywhere in a 2.5-3.0 miles radius of the site is if a 2 legged animal took him and the boots.

 

[kammiemc]

I agree.
IMO, a person has every right to lawyer up. Certainly a legal right. And yes, I know that there are even LE who would advise you to never talk to them without a lawyer.

Getting a lawyer is a way of putting yourself first, of protecting yourself. And again, you have a right to do that.

But having a missing child is a unique case, unlike any other. If you are innocent in the disappearance of your child, do you put yourself first? If you want to find your child, you are desperate, you want to give LE any possible information that would help find your child. You do not want to limit information in any way. You may think of someone or some situation, even months after your child has disappeared, that may help LE.
Your lawyer's job is to protect your rights, not to find your child. The lawyer will advise you to check with them before you tell LE anything, and the flow of information will be impaired.

I don't believe an innocent parent would hire an attorney while their child is still missing.

I totally hear what you're saying. Does it ever happen? Out of curiosity, does anyone know of any parents who have hired a lawyer during an investigation where their child was killed or missing? (Parents who were eventually officially cleared of any wrongdoing?) I agree that I probably wouldn't give a shoot about myself if my child were missing. But, maybe I'm just paranoid, but I might fear the possibility of being set up or misunderstanding something legal.

 

[VLM]

Mud boots? Rubber mud boots?IMO

To clarify, my daughter's mud boots were bogs, a little more fitted and hefty than rubber boots. But she has very skinny legs and narrow feet, so another difference to be taken into consideration. What I was responding to was the shared propensity to walk out of their boots. IMO the style/type of footwear matters less than the fit.

 

[giagreen]

Actually, mountain lion's use their bicuspids to shred their "food" which can result in them eating non-food sources. Leather and other clothing has been found in their stomachs during necropsy. IMO.

I don't believe the sheriff has given any reasonable explanation as to why he doubts a cougar attack on little Deorr. It's just not enough to say the dogs found nothing, searchers found nothing, infrared helicopter found nothing. Just WHAT was he expecting would be found from a cougar attack? Cougars pass through while hunting. They don't have permanent dens, per se. They use "day beds" in the places they hunt which is anywhere within their territory. A mother and young cubs will be more stationary and young males who have been kicked out by the mother cross into other cougars' territories while looking to find a territory of their own. They are not like wolves who habitate as a pack and stay together as a group. Cougars are solitary animals except during mating (approx 8 days) and a mother with her cubs. After mating, the male once again becomes solitary. There just is NO way, in good faith, that a cougar attack should not be looked at seriously. Prior attacks on children speak for themselves. What makes the sheriff "believe" that little Deorr is the exception. Everything, unfortunately, was in place for the ever so patient stalking and FAST moving cougar. Does it make more sense than the rest of the scenarios? Occam anyone?! IMO

Its the only thing that actually makes sense. I've had a hard time trying to understand why its been sp ruled out.

 

[bessie]

]

I totally hear what you're saying. Does it ever happen? Out of curiosity, does anyone know of any parents who have hired a lawyer during an investigation where their child was killed or missing? (Parents who were eventually officially cleared of any wrongdoing?) I agree that I probably wouldn't give a shoot about myself if my child were missing. But, maybe I'm just paranoid, but I might fear the possibility of being set up or misunderstanding something legal.

Diena Thompson: Killer Would Be 'Lucky' to Be Caught By Cops Before Her

[...]
"There's been amazing outpouring of support," said Thompson's lawyer, Michael Freed. "There's been a trust created to help Diena raise her surviving children in as normal a way as she can. And of course, there's opportunities to increase the reward which hopefully will be helpful as well. And, as Diena said, that really means a lot to her and to the family," he said.

"I can't imagine them not catching him," Thompson said. "That's my scariest ... I feel like there's a piece of broken glass in front of me. And I've got all the pieces to the broken glass except for this one, huge piece and that's to catch the monster who did this."

---

Not exactly to your point, but relevant to the potential harm and danger to victim parents by vigilantes and "internet warriors".

Slain Child's Mother Says She Is Frightened After Arson
Laura Gallagher spoke just hours after her home nearly caught fire
By Chris Van Horne

[...]
"Woken by doorbell, banging on the door," she said. "Fortunately, a neighbor had come over to wake us. We'd been asleep upstairs."

The fire started at about 2:15 a.m., not long after the Gallaghers had called it a night.

"It's very frightening," said Laura Gallagher, who said she is worried someone may have been watching their home.

The fire came less than three weeks after the killing of her 6-year-old daughter.

"Be aware of your happily ever after -- hug your kids, appreciate what you have," Gallagher said. "You don't realize how suddenly everything can come falling down."

Friday was the first time Gallagher had publicly spoken since her daughter's death. After the arson, she felt it was time to talk, she said.
"You keep wanting to think, 'It can't be real. I can't imagine anyone would hurt her,'" she said.

---

 

[kammiemc]

]
Diena Thompson: Killer Would Be 'Lucky' to Be Caught By Cops Before Her

[...]
"There's been amazing outpouring of support," said Thompson's lawyer, Michael Freed. "There's been a trust created to help Diena raise her surviving children in as normal a way as she can. And of course, there's opportunities to increase the reward which hopefully will be helpful as well. And, as Diena said, that really means a lot to her and to the family," he said.

"I can't imagine them not catching him," Thompson said. "That's my scariest ... I feel like there's a piece of broken glass in front of me. And I've got all the pieces to the broken glass except for this one, huge piece and that's to catch the monster who did this."

---

Not exactly to your point, but relevant to the potential harm and danger to victim parents by vigilantes and "internet warriors".

Slain Child's Mother Says She Is Frightened After Arson
Laura Gallagher spoke just hours after her home nearly caught fire
By Chris Van Horne

[...]
"Woken by doorbell, banging on the door," she said. "Fortunately, a neighbor had come over to wake us. We'd been asleep upstairs."

The fire started at about 2:15 a.m., not long after the Gallaghers had called it a night.

"It's very frightening," said Laura Gallagher, who said she is worried someone may have been watching their home.

The fire came less than three weeks after the killing of her 6-year-old daughter.

"Be aware of your happily ever after -- hug your kids, appreciate what you have," Gallagher said. "You don't realize how suddenly everything can come falling down."

Friday was the first time Gallagher had publicly spoken since her daughter's death. After the arson, she felt it was time to talk, she said.
"You keep wanting to think, 'It can't be real. I can't imagine anyone would hurt her,'" she said.

---

Thanks for this article. Just for clarity, I was asking because, if fingers were pointing at me, I would want a lawyer regardless whether I was worried that I had done anything at all wrong, just because I would be afraid that I could wrongfully get pegged. I respect that some posters say that no innocent parent would lawyer up and was just wondering if the reason for thinking that is because it just doesn't happen. I have no idea. (I think I would!)

ETA: that is heartbreaking btw

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[bessie]

Thanks for this article. Just for clarity, I was asking because, if fingers were pointing at me, I would want a lawyer regardless whether I was worried that I had done anything at all wrong, just because I would be afraid that I could wrongfully get pegged. I respect that some posters say that no innocent parent would lawyer up and was just wondering if the reason for thinking that is because it just doesn't happen. I have no idea. (I think I would!)

ETA: that is heartbreaking btw

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thank you and a :thumb:.

A general point, and not directed specifically to you, kammie:

The name of the site is "Websleuths", and effective "sleuthing" requires an open mind.

 

[ILOKAL]

I appreciate all of this Ilokal, though I have to admit these "hunters" with their big **** eating grins on their faces make me ill. They're disgusting to me. As you can tell, I'm not a supporter of killing wild animals unless it's absolutely necessary for survival. I realize that there needs to be some control, but most of these hunters do it to make them feel like a man, because they're really not one. No different than the creepy Lion murdering dentist in Minnesota. JMO

I showed the photos so the large size of these cats next to a man can be seen. Please don't shoot the messenger.

 

[bessie]

I showed the photos so the large size of these cats next to a man can be seen. Please don't shoot the messenger.

This is somewhat OT, but I came across this article yesterday, and thought it was worth a mention. A heartbreaking tragedy of a different kind.

Cougar shot in west Edmonton backyard
CBC News Posted: Sep 18, 2015 9:23 AM MT
Last Updated: Sep 18, 2015 7:02 PM MT

Police shot and killed a cougar in a west Edmonton backyard. Robert Stebbings was sitting next to his garage near 107th Avenue and 151st Street around 6:45 a.m. Friday when he heard something unusual.

"I was just having a smoke this morning in front of my garage and I heard him coming, heavy breathing like something you'd hear at the zoo. Next thing you know I just looked like this and he's like five feet away," he said.

"He just walked up beside my garage. I could hear him coming."

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/cougar-shot-in-west-edmonton-backyard-1.3233839

 

[ILOKAL]

And maybe no physical evidence or photos that would actually place him at the campsite.

Yes, this. However, as far as physical evidence placing him at the campsite, there was his blanket and toys, at least one diaper and probably many more things to indicate he had, indeed, been there (short of a complete staged scene). As for no photos, they barely had time for any before little Deorr disappeared

IMO

 

[ILOKAL]

This is somewhat OT, but I came across this article yesterday, and thought it was worth a mention. A heartbreaking tragedy of a different kind.

Cougar shot in west Edmonton backyard
CBC News Posted: Sep 18, 2015 9:23 AM MT
Last Updated: Sep 18, 2015 7:02 PM MT

Police shot and killed a cougar in a west Edmonton backyard. Robert Stebbings was sitting next to his garage near 107th Avenue and 151st Street around 6:45 a.m. Friday when he heard something unusual.

"I was just having a smoke this morning in front of my garage and I heard him coming, heavy breathing like something you'd hear at the zoo. Next thing you know I just looked like this and he's like five feet away," he said.

"He just walked up beside my garage. I could hear him coming."

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/cougar-shot-in-west-edmonton-backyard-1.3233839

The description of a mountain lion's behavior in this article is spot on. Thanks for posting it, Bessie. That certainly answers the question someone asked upthread regarding if they're afraid of humans.

 

[ILOKAL]

]
Diena Thompson: Killer Would Be 'Lucky' to Be Caught By Cops Before Her

[...]
"There's been amazing outpouring of support," said Thompson's lawyer, Michael Freed. "There's been a trust created to help Diena raise her surviving children in as normal a way as she can. And of course, there's opportunities to increase the reward which hopefully will be helpful as well. And, as Diena said, that really means a lot to her and to the family," he said.

"I can't imagine them not catching him," Thompson said. "That's my scariest ... I feel like there's a piece of broken glass in front of me. And I've got all the pieces to the broken glass except for this one, huge piece and that's to catch the monster who did this."

---

Not exactly to your point, but relevant to the potential harm and danger to victim parents by vigilantes and "internet warriors".

Slain Child's Mother Says She Is Frightened After Arson
Laura Gallagher spoke just hours after her home nearly caught fire
By Chris Van Horne

[...]
"Woken by doorbell, banging on the door," she said. "Fortunately, a neighbor had come over to wake us. We'd been asleep upstairs."

The fire started at about 2:15 a.m., not long after the Gallaghers had called it a night.

"It's very frightening," said Laura Gallagher, who said she is worried someone may have been watching their home.

The fire came less than three weeks after the killing of her 6-year-old daughter.

"Be aware of your happily ever after -- hug your kids, appreciate what you have," Gallagher said. "You don't realize how suddenly everything can come falling down."

Friday was the first time Gallagher had publicly spoken since her daughter's death. After the arson, she felt it was time to talk, she said.
"You keep wanting to think, 'It can't be real. I can't imagine anyone would hurt her,'" she said.

---

I can think of some others, but since mention of them might cause an all out OT war to erupt, I think I'll refrain from naming them.

 

[Mountaingazer]

About the boots. My boys had the same ones in brown from walmart. They are now too small, but even when they were the correct size, they fell off constantly. The ankle is too wide compared to the footbed. Most slide on kids boots are like this because otherwise you would never get a toddler in their boots.

They were the biggest pain in the butt because my boys loved them, but they were completely impractical. They couldn't swing with them on, or climb, they would fall off if they were sitting in a shopping cart. I can't tell you how many times strangers came up to me with one of the boots in hand while we were out in public because one had fallen off without me noticing.

Take it for what it's worth, but I have no doubt that even if they were the correct size those boots would have fallen off immediately if he were attacked and dragged away by a mountain lion.

 

[pepelepolecat]

IMO< they were not cowboy boots. They were a hybrid of cowboy/mud boots. JMO :cow:

Agreed -- those were not at all what I had thought of as "cowboy boots." One of mine had a pair of cowboy boots that he wore eeevvvveeerrrrywhere, and they were essentially miniature versions of the same cowboy boots adults wear. The picture of the type of boots DeOrr was wearing were more like mud boots, imo. (and I'd consider those a type of slip-on). moo and meo.

 

[ILOKAL]

About the boots. My boys had the same ones in brown from walmart. They are now too small, but even when they were the correct size, they fell off constantly. The ankle is too wide compared to the footbed. Most slide on kids boots are like this because otherwise you would never get a toddler in their boots.

They were the biggest pain in the butt because my boys loved them, but they were completely impractical. They couldn't swing with them on, or climb, they would fall off if they were sitting in a shopping cart. I can't tell you how many times strangers came up to me with one of the boots in hand while we were out in public because one had fallen off without me noticing.

Take it for what it's worth, but I have no doubt that even if they were the correct size those boots would have fallen off immediately if he were attacked and dragged away by a mountain lion.

Well, that will make my upcoming experiment all the more interesting. We've heard that little Deorr would sometimes walk out of his little boots, but have the parents ever said his boots fall off? I really can't recall. So many have SAID that they "would", but did the parents ever say they in fact DID? jw

 

[ILOKAL]

Agreed -- those were not at all what I had thought of as "cowboy boots." One of mine had a pair of cowboy boots that he wore eeevvvveeerrrrywhere, and they were essentially miniature versions of the same cowboy boots adults wear. The picture of the type of boots DeOrr was wearing were more like mud boots, imo. moo and meo.

Hmmm, I actually looked up mud boots because I wasn't familiar with the term. I also looked up bogs that a poster spoke of. Now I'm no boot expert, but NONE of those boots are a thing like the boots little Deorr was wearing. Although it's impossible for me to know the exact mud boot/bog other posters have experience with, I can clearly tell from all the online pictures that they are not what little Deorr was wearing. We can each call them whatever we want, but the fact is, his parents said they were cowboy boots, we've seen the picture, and to say they were anything BUT that just confuses the issue. Am I mistaken, but isn't this the first time the term "mud boot" has appeared in the boot discussion on all threads? Now all of a sudden it's the word of the day? Once again, jw?

 

[EllieBee]

I have lots of experience with very young kiddos and they love to wear the rain/mud style of rubber or poly boot. They are very impractical for daily wear ( but, hey, you pick your battles )as they are constantly falling off their feet, or they run right out of them. Even when the "proper" size, (which can be iffy as they are often sized XS, S, M, L) they still come off very easily.

I expect they were designed that way to make them easier to get on/off in wet/muddy weather.