ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #11

[Mountaingazer]

Well, that will make my upcoming experiment all the more interesting. We've heard that little Deorr would sometimes walk out of his little boots, but have the parents ever said his boots fall off? I really can't recall. So many have SAID that they "would", but did the parents ever say they in fact DID? jw

I am not quite sure of the distinction between walking out of the boots and them falling off that you are trying to make or how it would be relevant.

 

[EllieBee]

Regarding the rain/mud boots vs. cowboy boots, as a Texan I have never seen camo "cowboy" boots. I have seen ropers or wellingtons with a camo pattern. And for kids, those are constructed much like a pull on mud boot with a wide ankle area.

The parents may have just been using "cowboy"(high heels, pointier toes) to describe a different style of boot. I don't imagine too many folks know or care about the intricacies of boot style like we do in Texas, lol.

Hope this helps.

 

[ILOKAL]

I have lots of experience with very young kiddos and they love to wear the rain/mud style of rubber or poly boot. They are very impractical for daily wear ( but, hey, you pick your battles )as they are constantly falling off their feet, or they run right out of them. Even when the "proper" size, (which can be iffy as they are often sized XS, S, M, L) they still come off very easily.

I expect they were designed that way to make them easier to get on/off in wet/muddy weather.

Yes, I agree with you completely. However, the boots little Deorr was wearing were NOT those type of boots or anywhere even similar to those boots. Like you said, mud boots are meant to go on and come off easily, which they do. Even adult mud boots slip on and off easily. They're made to do just that! They are quite popular for little ones and sometimes come with matching raincoats and umbrellas. Why, ALL of a sudden, some want to start calling Deorr's boots mud boots is beyond me.

 

[pepelepolecat]

Regarding the rain/mud boots vs. cowboy boots, as a Texan I have never seen camo "cowboy" boots. I have seen ropers or wellingtons with a camo pattern. And for kids, those are constructed much like a pull on mud boot with a wide ankle area.

The parents may have just been using "cowboy"(high heels, pointier toes) to describe a different style of boot. I don't imagine too many folks know or care about the intricacies of boot style like we do in Texas, lol.

Hope this helps.

A link was posted much earlier in the conversation showing what the boots looked like and were similar to this (except with a camo pattern): http://toddlerbootsworld.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/western-toddler-boots-side-278x300.jpg

What I've always considered a cowboy boot is more like this: http://scene7.targetimg1.com/is/image/Target/14133079?wid=480&hei=480

Although I suppose one could argue this is a matter of semantics, I do think there is a pretty big difference between the types of boots and would make a difference in how easily they would fall off. (I also tend to think that even if a boot fell off, it wouldn't necessarily be easy to find given how small the boots were comparatively and that they were camo in design, but I have no clear ideas of where, when or how they might have fallen off if they did).

As always -- moo and a fair bit of speculation.

 

[Rayemonde]

http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/0...hopeful-two-months-after-toddler-disappeared/

 

[ILOKAL]

Regarding the rain/mud boots vs. cowboy boots, as a Texan I have never seen camo "cowboy" boots. I have seen ropers or wellingtons with a camo pattern. And for kids, those are constructed much like a pull on mud boot with a wide ankle area.

The parents may have just been using "cowboy"(high heels, pointier toes) to describe a different style of boot. I don't imagine too many folks know or care about the intricacies of boot style like we do in Texas, lol.

Hope this helps.

As an Okie, I'm pretty familiar with cowboy boots. We saw a picture of the boots Deorr's parents have referred to as cowboy boots, so we need not compare them to mud boots which they are not. Even toddler's authentic cowboy boots have a wider ankle since toddlers aren't the easiest to get boots on. But I've never experienced them falling off their feet, even when larger. IMO, as an Okie!

 

[ILOKAL]

I am not quite sure of the distinction between walking out of the boots and them falling off that you are trying to make or how it would be relevant.

Just because a child might on occasion walk out of their boots doesn't mean they would necessarily (if at all) fall off a limp child, as had been suggested.

 

[Jamaica Me Crazy]

All LE has to do is run a vehicle check on all fairly new black Rubicons in the state and surrounding states and x-ref to pictures on driver licenses to find the mystery man as described so they can question him. I wonder if this is being done. From all the publicity the guy has received he is probably long gone by now anyhow - sold vehicle or left state or whatever - if he had anything to do with the disappearance.

 

[pepelepolecat]

View attachment 81826

http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/0...hopeful-two-months-after-toddler-disappeared/

Ah, that sweet little face. It hurts my heart to think that they're asking hunters to watch out for him.

 

[wondering25]

Thanks for this article. Just for clarity, I was asking because, if fingers were pointing at me, I would want a lawyer regardless whether I was worried that I had done anything at all wrong, just because I would be afraid that I could wrongfully get pegged. I respect that some posters say that no innocent parent would lawyer up and was just wondering if the reason for thinking that is because it just doesn't happen. I have no idea. (I think I would!)

ETA: that is heartbreaking btw

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Hiring a lawyer doesn't preclude you from talking with the police. I know of cases where the lawyer sat in on questioning and may or may not tell their client not to answer certain questions. LE knows the game too. They know you can have a lawyer and still be innocent. Quite frankly, i wouldn't care what the public perception was.. or LE's perception was. Their job is to find my missing child. You certainly can COOPERATE WITH LE EVEN IF YOU RETAIN LEGAL COUNSEL. The 2 things are not mutually exclusive. JMO

 

[haven71]

They look more like "mud" boots to me than cowboy boots. Look at the deep traction of the soles! I have 2 pairs of cowboy boots and was married to a rancher and the soles are completely flat with NO traction whatsoever. If you ask me, these boots are camouflaged to look like cowboy boots

 

[ILOKAL]

Hiring a lawyer doesn't preclude you from talking with the police. I know of cases where the lawyer sat in on questioning and may or may not tell their client not to answer certain questions. LE knows the game too. They know you can have a lawyer and still be innocent. Quite frankly, i wouldn't care what the public perception was.. or LE's perception was. Their job is to find my missing child. You certainly can COOPERATE WITH LE EVEN IF YOU RETAIN LEGAL COUNSEL. The 2 things are not mutually exclusive. JMO

Lawyering up (I hate that term) is usually criticized by the media, by the pundits and talking heads of "news" shows, and the media is fueled by comments often made by LE or some anonymous "person" close to the investigation. Of course, some attorneys actually fuel it themselves, in an effort to someday parlay that into a nice living. Just as there are all kinds of attorneys, some good some BAD, the same is often true of LE, especially when they get their feathers ruffled by the attorney who has come on board. Unfortunately, the client at issue is the one who usually ends up suffering as a result. IMO

So no, I don't think hiring an attorney to represent your interests is anything but wise, as long as the client understands the perception that often follows.

 

[neesaki]

I showed the photos so the large size of these cats next to a man can be seen. Please don't shoot the messenger.

Uhoh, sorry if it came across that way, Ilokal. My comment wasn't aimed at you, but at the big game hunters and those who kill wildlife for no reason other than their own ego and entertainment. Those photos really help to put the size of those cats into perspective. Definitely not gonna shoot ya. :seeya:

 

[neesaki]

This is somewhat OT, but I came across this article yesterday, and thought it was worth a mention. A heartbreaking tragedy of a different kind.

Cougar shot in west Edmonton backyard
CBC News Posted: Sep 18, 2015 9:23 AM MT
Last Updated: Sep 18, 2015 7:02 PM MT

Police shot and killed a cougar in a west Edmonton backyard. Robert Stebbings was sitting next to his garage near 107th Avenue and 151st Street around 6:45 a.m. Friday when he heard something unusual.

"I was just having a smoke this morning in front of my garage and I heard him coming, heavy breathing like something you'd hear at the zoo. Next thing you know I just looked like this and he's like five feet away," he said.

"He just walked up beside my garage. I could hear him coming."

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/cougar-shot-in-west-edmonton-backyard-1.3233839

That's so sad. :cry:

 

[neesaki]

Yes, this. However, as far as physical evidence placing him at the campsite, there was his blanket and toys, at least one diaper and probably many more things to indicate he had, indeed, been there (short of a complete staged scene). As for no photos, they barely had time for any before little Deorr disappeared

IMO

Yeah, I agree. They got there late the night before. Then the next morning they probably just had breakfast, then got ready and went to the store. They hadn't been back at the camp site long when he went missing.

 

[neesaki]

Just because a child might on occasion walk out of their boots doesn't mean they would necessarily (if at all) fall off a limp child, as had been suggested.

Not to mention, I've seen toddlers walk out of all kinds of shoes, even ones with shoe laces. And I agree with a previous post, that being camo and so small, if they did fall off they could easily have not been found especially if they fell into the water.

 

[ILOKAL]

Uhoh, sorry if it came across that way, Ilokal. My comment wasn't aimed at you, but at the big game hunters and those who kill wildlife for no reason other than their own ego and entertainment. Those photos really help to put the size of those cats into perspective. Definitely not gonna shoot ya. :seeya:

Whew! You had me worried there for a minute, hehe. Not really, but I DID want you to know I wasn't deliberately showing pictures of dead animals because I think it's okay! They are HUGE!

 

[eileenhawkeye]

I don't find the PI that impressive. People can be confused about his theories and the information, but does that mean they now think Deorr was abducted by a suspicious man? How many people have converted to that theory due to the PI? He has a huge advantage beause LE has released zero evidence against the parents and said they were solid. If LE came out and told about evidence they found at the home saying Deorr was harmed there, he would have an even harder time being taken seriously. On this thread, I see very little to no discussion regarding the staring man, where people are talking about who he is, why he took Deorr, how, etc.

Also, there's been talk about him being able to introduce "reasonable doubt" into the trial. If he successfully does that, the prosecution did not have a strong enough case. The number of innocent people being convicted is much higher than the number of guilty people being acquitted for murder cases. The parents do not have a genius PR person nor will they have top-notch defense attorneys, but if they don't get arrested and charged, people are going to make it sound like they do.

 

[Mountaingazer]

Just because a child might on occasion walk out of their boots doesn't mean they would necessarily (if at all) fall off a limp child, as had been suggested.

If a child can walk out of a pair of boots then they are even more likely to fall off when the child is limp. My twins are a month older than deorr and had the same boots. They fell off all the time even when they were the correct size. The only time one ever walked out of their boot though was when it got stuck in mud up to his ankle.

A boot that is too big is also more likely to fall off when the child is limp because they are offering no resistance by curling their toes to try and keep it on.

Eta/ however if the boots did fall off, I think it is very probable that they are still up there waiting to be found. I think if he were attacked by a mountainlion the boots would come off, but I don't necessarily think the boots would be spotted by searchers because they are small and would blend in so well. I don't think just because the boots haven't been found that rules out a mountain lion attack.

 

[wondering25]

I, for one, am sick of the entire boot discussion. I don't care if he was barefoot. No one has bothered to mention that reportedly a little toy truck was also supposedly in the baby's pocket and that hasnt been discovered either. He was wearing a jacket and pajama bottoms too.. ZILCH NADA NOTHING found. Tell me.. has anyone heard that a pet of any kind was also at the campsite? Not trying to start a rumor.. just a question.. MOO

Just my opinion on all of this.