ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #12

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I think to say that she was LYING would be a very simplistic explanation as to why IMO, I think it is most probable that the guy isn't a viable lead and/or doesn't exist. Here are some things that make me go hmm:

1. Though LE has ruled nothing out entirely, stranger abduction is the least likely scenario. From my perspective, LE has ONE motive and that is to find the toddler. I am not buying into any of the spec that the sheriff is stupid, cavalier or mishandled the case. For reasons stated here and likely for other reasons that we are not privy to, he does not believe abduction is a real possibility.

2. Though the parents believed that DeOrr was abducted, they didn't think to mention the one suspicious person creepily staring at their son just a couple hours before he went missing. UNTIL the PI came in trying to prove out their abduction theory.

3. We don't know what JM said to the PI. We know how the PI, on a mission to prove out abduction, relayed her story.

3. There is such thing as magical thinking. If the parents' last hope for finding the toddler alive requires him to have been abducted, their minds might be playing tricks on them. They might want desperately to make some guy who glanced at the family be THE ONE.

4. They have been under undue pressure from crazy backwards-recording SM people claiming that they did terrible things to their son. It might be human nature to try to distract the glare of the public eye by highlighting another possibility--abduction--and it is helpful to have a lead.

5. It is completely improbable that the PI, once uncovering the staring incident at Leadore, the ONE abductor lead, wouldn't have asked what car the guy might have been driving. BUT, this is exactly what would have had to happen for the PI to have waited until the Swan Valley description came in, with vehicle description, prompting him after all this time to ask DK what car the Leadore guy could have been driving--and DK at that time remembered the car, and it was the same one. Again, this is the PI's story of what happened, not DK's. And I'm not buying it.

6. There is not a sketch. Assuming, as I do, that neither LE nor the FBI are morons or trying to pull the wool over taxpayers' eyes and genuinely (probably even desperately) want to find this boy, there would have been a sketch and Amber Alert of a Rubicon if this was a real lead. This tells me that the staring man/men have been ruled out, whether that's because it is KNOWN that something other than abduction happened to DeOrr, whether the person who served fries said there was no guy there, OR said, yes, there was a guy there and gave LE his name and they checked him out and cleared him.

7. There is NOTHING pointing to a connection between the Leadore staring man and the Swan Valley staring man. People give me the creeps all the time. Doesn't mean that one person who gives me the creeps is the same person who gives someone somewhere else the creeps.

8. IMO, there is like a .00000000000000001% chance that this guy exists and is a viable lead and yet has been ignored by LE and the FBI. If it is true that this staring man was at the fries restaurant, corroborated by a sales person, other patrons or video, or receipt, and his alibi for the 10 mins that DeOrr was left alone unattended doesn't check out, then this sketch will help people identify him and remind the sales person of him. They can check receipts. Did he use a debit card? And maybe they will find that he followed the family back to the campsite and pounced when GGP went into the trailer, yet the family forgot even seeing this guy or mentioning him until the PI came into play. But I expect pigs to fly before that, really.

This is all nothing but a huge amount of speculation and personal opinion, none of which equals anything close to fact that we know of. The only fact there is, is that we know absolutely nothing, we have no idea whether the man exists or not, or even what LE REALLY believes about that man or anyone else. LE isn't concerned about what we know, and in fact would rather we don't know. So therefore we know absolutely zilch. Including whether or not the siting of this man or if he exists is legitimate or not. We don't know anything. That said, if my child came up missing, and I had seen a creepy man staring at my child, I would be highly suspicious. Are you saying you wouldn't be?
 
It's supposed to be starting soon, but the darn sun is still up here (and more importantly, the moon isn't up)! I think it should be dark before the total eclipse, though. :) Hoping it's worth all the hype! Thanks for the link and reminder!

Unfortunately we have complete cloud cover. No Super blood moon for me. :(
 
It's supposed to be starting soon, but the darn sun is still up here (and more importantly, the moon isn't up)! I think it should be dark before the total eclipse, though. :) Hoping it's worth all the hype! Thanks for the link and reminder!

Grrr ... it was so cloudy here that we couldn't even see the moon. So frustrating and disappointing.
 
You seem to be imposing a timeline that may or may not be correct. We don't know if JM and DK told LE about the staring guy. What we DO know is that the sheriff wasn't interested in it. We don't know if the PI was told the same info about the staring guy as may have previously been told to the sheriff.

We know that DK and JM didn't tell the public about the "creepy man" when they had a 15 minute interview with the media just 3 days after the disappearance - when the likelihood of identifying such a person was much higher.
 
We know that DK and JM didn't tell the public about the "creepy man" when they had a 15 minute interview with the media just 3 days after the disappearance - when the likelihood of identifying such a person was much higher.

It has occurred to me that perhaps JM and DK weren't, at that time, thinking about anyone they saw 20 minutes away from the campsite but were only thinking about whether or not they saw anyone near or around the campsite. The staring man at the store may have come to JM's recollection during interviews with LE or in conversation with family and friends.
 
Unfortunately we have complete cloud cover. No Super blood moon for me. :(

Same here :(. We were so disappointed. Thirty years is such a LONG time. We DID see an awesome moonset last spring that I had not seen before, so at least that's something! :)
 
Yes, thank you for that counterpoint. The problem is that I have 8 points.

They would all have to be wrong to make the staring guy a viable lead. Could be.

I am interested in knowing WHY you think he is a lead.


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It seems as though Vilks himself has drawn the conclusion that the sightings of each staring man may be the same person (which, of course, they may be). I don't think that was concluded by JM and DK. Without the second sighting being drawn into the picture, the sighting of the staring man at the store in Leadore seems quite solid, IMO.
 
I seem to be the only one who got to see the moon. Lol
I didnt even mean to. Woke up last night and it was right in perfect view out side my window. It was beautiful.
 
We know that DK and JM didn't tell the public about the "creepy man" when they had a 15 minute interview with the media just 3 days after the disappearance - when the likelihood of identifying such a person was much higher.
I know right! 3 days must of felt like forever when own child went missing! I probably wouldn't be able to sleep; and think and think and think -- where did I go? Who could of followed us?? Was there any suspicious person?? Especially if I WAS actually feeling creeped out by someone staring at my child! I would remember it STRAIGHT AWAY. Wouldn't you?? But then again, someone will always find reasons lol..... :rolleyes:
 
I know right! 3 days must of felt like forever when own child went missing! I probably wouldn't be able to sleep; and think and think and think -- where did I go? Who could of followed us?? Was there any suspicious person?? Especially if I WAS actually feeling creeped out by someone staring at my child! I would remember it STRAIGHT AWAY. Wouldn't you?? But then again, someone will always find reasons lol..... :rolleyes:

So you don't think JM saw a man staring at Deorr at the store? You think she's lying? I know I don't know when JM recollected that staring man, do you?
 
I know right! 3 days must of felt like forever when own child went missing! I probably wouldn't be able to sleep; and think and think and think -- where did I go? Who could of followed us?? Was there any suspicious person?? Especially if I WAS actually feeling creeped out by someone staring at my child! I would remember it STRAIGHT AWAY. Wouldn't you?? But then again, someone will always find reasons lol..... :rolleyes:

Memory is a funny thing. I think it's also possible that as JM has gone over and over her actions from that day, she may have made mountains out of molehills (think = speculation). Perhaps there was a creepy old man there who didn't look at them at all. Perhaps there was an older man there who was giving the toddler grumpy looks because DeOrr, as toddlers are wont to do, was being a toddler. Perhaps there was an older man who thought the little blonde boy was adorable and kept winking or making funny faces at him. In hindsight in a situation like this, it's easy to make something dark and creepy and scary out of innocent interactions in an effort to make sense of the inexplicable.

Or maybe there was no man at all. I simply don't know. It doesn't sound like LE thinks much of this line of inquiry, either because they've already found out who he is and cleared him or because they otherwise have reason to think he's not involved.
 
It has been said over and over that the 4 POI have said they didnt see or hear anything at the campsite, as in other campers, vehicles etc. That doesnt mean there wasnt anyone else there. The creek was loud and running.. perhaps it was windy.. everyone was preoccupied and would you remember ..looking back, if you heard another vehicle.. you probably wouldnt make a mental note of an engine.. cars are normal to hear. I suppose there could have been another vehicle in the general area. JMO

Anything i write is just my opinion
 
This is all nothing but a huge amount of speculation and personal opinion, none of which equals anything close to fact that we know of. The only fact there is, is that we know absolutely nothing, we have no idea whether the man exists or not, or even what LE REALLY believes about that man or anyone else. LE isn't concerned about what we know, and in fact would rather we don't know. So therefore we know absolutely zilch. Including whether or not the siting of this man or if he exists is legitimate or not. We don't know anything. That said, if my child came up missing, and I had seen a creepy man staring at my child, I would be highly suspicious. Are you saying you wouldn't be?

This is CLEARLY my speculation as to why I personally doubt the guy is a viable lead and/or exists. I was writing specifically in response to a question asking if I thought the mom was lying. And my answer was no, it's not that simplistic. Hopefully no one would read from any of these points that I think we should be more filled in or that it matters what we know. That is opposite of what I think. If you think my posts amount to a whole lot of nothing, please disregard them, don't feel like you have to evaluate and judge them. And I hope you understand why I wont take the invitation to answer your question.
 
Memory is a funny thing. I think it's also possible that as JM has gone over and over her actions from that day, she may have made mountains out of molehills (think = speculation). Perhaps there was a creepy old man there who didn't look at them at all. Perhaps there was an older man there who was giving the toddler grumpy looks because DeOrr, as toddlers are wont to do, was being a toddler. Perhaps there was an older man who thought the little blonde boy was adorable and kept winking or making funny faces at him. In hindsight in a situation like this, it's easy to make something dark and creepy and scary out of innocent interactions in an effort to make sense of the inexplicable.

Or maybe there was no man at all. I simply don't know. It doesn't sound like LE thinks much of this line of inquiry, either because they've already found out who he is and cleared him or because they otherwise have reason to think he's not involved.

I totally agree, along with the previous poster.
 
...might attract stares from many people.

Definitely. Everytime i have seen a screaming having a tantrum or crying child in the store, it certainly attracts looks from other people.
 
We know that DK and JM didn't tell the public about the "creepy man" when they had a 15 minute interview with the media just 3 days after the disappearance - when the likelihood of identifying such a person was much higher.

That struck me as well. If I was worried about a creepy guy staring at my son I saw just a couple hours before he disappeared, and especially if the sheriff didn't consider it a lead, what a great opportunity to let people know, as well as to give credence to their abduction theory. Wonder why they didn't bring it up? Maybe they didn't recall it at that point or had just dismissed it as nothing, but then their memory was jarred later by the PI?
 
Why do ppl stare at a child?

Cute
Acting badly
messy and dirty unkept?

2 yr olds are not always the best behaved.
 
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