ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #17

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The fact that Bowerman is asking for witnesses to come forward who has seen the way the parents treated DeOrr... It sounded to me like they are looking for any evidence of previous abuse. I too have trouble imagining a scenario where they would try to cover up an accident, unless he got into some illegal drugs or something...

Eta this bit, I thought it seemed like Bowerman is fishing for prior abuse:

"We're asking the public at this time to come forward with any information that they might have concerning the parents and their interaction with their son DeOrr that they might have witnessed," he said.

http://www.ktvb.com/story/news/crim...-parents-suspects-his-disappearance/79301014/
 
I can think of a whole bunch of accidental ways a child could die on a camping trip in that location:

drown in the creek
fall down that ledge to the creek and crack his head open
carbon monoxide poisoning from defective stove, or in the vehicle
run over by vehicle
strangled in tent rope or something along those lines
left in vehicle in the sun
fell down a hole such as an unmarked mine shaft, animal hole, etc.
ate a poisonous plant
choked on his candy bar

But what I can't figure out in any of those cases is why they would have covered up the accident and hid the event rather than trying to get help. The timeline is so tight that covering up must have been the first reaction. And that just doesn't make any sense to me.

BBM What I have wrestled around in my head, since things started looking suspicious way back when ..Which one of the four POI's could have personally, physically (and had the means) to disappear Little DeOrr all by themselves?? Think about it. I have many times but we haven't been able to discuss such.
 
The one in Minnesota certainly did strike me as odd at the time. Really, it STILL strikes me as odd.

I don't even recall who reported it, but just yesterday as everything was flying out and I was reading here and there, that reporter was acknowledging mistakes he had made, and that was one of them. Was it Nate?
 
Respectfully snipped by me:

SB described the search efforts in detail during his interview with Tricia in October.

11:09
TG: Okay, and you have…you have searched at great lengths and great depths the reservoir and the stream…uh creek.

11:17
SB: Yes! We dove the reservoir at least four days. We put a side-scan sonar in on one day. We also uh flew a helicopter both in daylight and at night with the FLIR to illuminate for body heat, and we found absolutely nothing other than our canines alerted on it but we found that someone had come in behind us and had uh put some human cremains in of a loved one and that kind of threw our dogs off.

11:51
TG: Oh! So like spreading the ashes of their loved one and then the dog goes there and is like, hey, there’s human remains. Oh, boy! That must be frustrating!


http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-**NO-DISCUSSION-quot&p=12122056#post12122056

Thank you Bessie! Did they find out who had spread the ashes? That's bizarre too!
 
At the end of thread 16, there was discussion about the validity and admissibility of polygraphs in general. This is anecdotal, but here it goes: *many* years ago when I was in high school, we had career week where we had various groups, agencies come in. One day, it was law enforcement. One of the activities was to administer a polygraph to two students (who were selected by teachers, but more on that in a bit) at the afternoon assembly.

I was selected and met with the detective #1 in the morning. He asked me basic questions and then told me to lie about two details (my middle name and my age) and be truthful about the rest. When it came time for my polygraph, neither the detective who asked the questions (detective #2) nor the one who interpreted the results (detective #3), knew I was instructed to lie. I did very well. One question was flagged as suspect (one I answered truthfully). My lies didn't register. I'm certain it's because I was coached in advance, instructed to lie to illustrate a point and that there were no consequences to my lies.

The other student met with detective #1 in the morning. She was also given the list of questions but was instructed to answer truthfully. Later in the afternoon, she did poorly on the polygraph. It turns out detective #1 asked the teacher to recommend a student she (the teacher) knew to be uncomfortable in front of large groups and who didn't like public speaking. Nerves and anxiety undoubtedly were undoubtedly factors in her poor performance. Before feeling too badly for her, she was indicted to participate in order to extra credit points in her class. She was a good sport about it.

(Side note: no need for a polygraph for me. I have NO poker face.)

Now, I know this was an overly simplified experiment and the science and technology has changed significantly in the past few decades. Polygraphs can be useful *tools* and perhaps provide a direction in the investigation, but they're not infallible.

Nervousness, anxiety, etc. are "plugged in" so they don't have an impact on the test.
 
The fact that Bowerman is asking for witnesses to come forward who has seen the way the parents treated DeOrr... It sounded to me like they are looking for any evidence of previous abuse. I too have trouble imagining a scenario where they would try to cover up an accident, unless he got into some illegal drugs or something...

Eta this bit, I thought it seemed like Bowerman is fishing for prior abuse:



http://www.ktvb.com/story/news/crim...-parents-suspects-his-disappearance/79301014/

It seemed that way to me too. It also sounds like the kind of information that would be provided to a prosecutor who could be building a potential 'no body' case.
 
I also thought of DeOrr being run over by a vehicle. BUT, whose first reaction would to "we gotta cover this up" and not "call 911". And then to subsequently start blaming someone else camping with them... It's weird.

I do have confidence that the sheriff is confident that the campground and surrounding area was searched thoroughly:



http://www.idahostatejournal.com/me...cle_156ed875-b71c-57e6-b472-eea0258a890e.html

Yeah, exactly.

I come down to either the parents are in fact innocent and it happened pretty much the way they said, or it was...premeditated???? I just can't make the accident scenario work.
 
Long time lurker here, but first time posting. Have followed many many cases on here, and have followed this one almost from the beginning. My only thoughts are - is this is a repeat of Caylee Anthony? I'm thinking that perhaps drugs were used so that little Deorr would go right to sleep. IMO he never woke up from being put to bed Thursday night - possible overdose? If this was used regularly on him, then I'm sure it would have shown up on an autopsy. At any rate, this is sooo heartbreaking!!
 
At the end of thread 16, there was discussion about the validity and admissibility of polygraphs in general. This is anecdotal, but here it goes: *many* years ago when I was in high school, we had career week where we had various groups, agencies come in. One day, it was law enforcement. One of the activities was to administer a polygraph to two students (who were selected by teachers, but more on that in a bit) at the afternoon assembly.

I was selected and met with the detective #1 in the morning. He asked me basic questions and then told me to lie about two details (my middle name and my age) and be truthful about the rest. When it came time for my polygraph, neither the detective who asked the questions (detective #2) nor the one who interpreted the results (detective #3), knew I was instructed to lie. I did very well. One question was flagged as suspect (one I answered truthfully). My lies didn't register. I'm certain it's because I was coached in advance, instructed to lie to illustrate a point and that there were no consequences to my lies.

The other student met with detective #1 in the morning. She was also given the list of questions but was instructed to answer truthfully. Later in the afternoon, she did poorly on the polygraph. It turns out detective #1 asked the teacher to recommend a student she (the teacher) knew to be uncomfortable in front of large groups and who didn't like public speaking. Nerves and anxiety undoubtedly were undoubtedly factors in her poor performance. Before feeling too badly for her, she was indicted to participate in order to extra credit points in her class. She was a good sport about it.

(Side note: no need for a polygraph for me. I have NO poker face.)

Now, I know this was an overly simplified experiment and the science and technology has changed significantly in the past few decades. Polygraphs can be useful *tools* and perhaps provide a direction in the investigation, but they're not infallible.
This is exactly why I don't think I'd ever agree to a polygraph even if I was 100% sure of my innocents. I have pretty bad panick attacks all the time. Under pressure like that I don't think I'd pass even if I was being truthful.
 
I think that a parent who loses custody of a child still has the right to visitation. It's when parental rights are terminated that they no longer have a right to visitation.

But it's all just rumour anyway afaic, as we know nothing about the legal arrangement or the personal circumstances of the situation... All I know is what I've read on SM. Has it been mentioned in the msm at all?

Yes, termination of parental rights is often just that. No right to custody at all, no visitation ... and no having to pay child support. Usually those records are sealed.

We don't know what the situation is.
 
Yeah, exactly.

I come down to either the parents are in fact innocent and it happened pretty much the way they said, or it was...premeditated???? I just can't make the accident scenario work.
And my only thought is that if it wasn't accidental and was premeditated then maybe just maybe they did pass him off to someone els. I just can't think of a reason they'd premeditate their childs murder. It doesn't make sense. Or maybe he really is lost and le has got this one wrong.
 
EATON: What do you remember what happened up there?

REINWAND: I don’t want to comment on that.

EATON: Do you remember the last time you saw little DeOrr?

REINWAND: No comment.

EATON: But he was up there?

REINWAND: Yes, he was.

This makes me think that what IR has seen is not the story that JM and DK are telling police. I feel bad for this guy. Bet he wishes that he was never on that trip. Would love to know the answers to these questions!

http://www.eastidahonews.com/2016/01/isaac-reinwand-i-had-nothing-to-do-with-deorrs-disappearance/


Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk
 
Long time lurker here, but first time posting. Have followed many many cases on here, and have followed this one almost from the beginning. My only thoughts are - is this is a repeat of Caylee Anthony? I'm thinking that perhaps drugs were used so that little Deorr would go right to sleep. IMO he never woke up from being put to bed Thursday night - possible overdose? If this was used regularly on him, then I'm sure it would have shown up on an autopsy. At any rate, this is sooo heartbreaking!!
Welcome mkids11 [emoji3]

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk
 
The fact that Bowerman is asking for witnesses to come forward who has seen the way the parents treated DeOrr... It sounded to me like they are looking for any evidence of previous abuse. I too have trouble imagining a scenario where they would try to cover up an accident, unless he got into some illegal drugs or something...

Eta this bit, I thought it seemed like Bowerman is fishing for prior abuse:



http://www.ktvb.com/story/news/crim...-parents-suspects-his-disappearance/79301014/

I agree! Bowerman is fishing, that's for sure! I just couldn't believe how obvious it was. I think he actually asked for people to call if they had observed the parents with DeOrr. I don't think he asked for people who have seen the way the parents have treated DeOrr to call. Maybe someone will post his exact words. One thing I did note was that Bowerman was VERY careful to only say the parents were "less than truthful". IMO
 
Respectfully snipped by me:



Thank you Bessie! Did they find out who had spread the ashes? That's bizarre too!
They did.

"Sheriff Bowerman also says during their search they found a woman scattering the ashes of a relative in the reservoir which he says that may have thrown off the search dogs."

http://www.ktvb.com/story/news/loca...earch-hits-two-weeks-still-no-trace/30624055/

Sheriff Bowerman:
“Right! Unbeknownst to us while we were doing our grid search, someone came in and wanted to deposit cremains of a loved one at that site, and I’m assuming it’s a favorite site of their loved one, and without thinking, they deposited cremains, not realizing they were in the middle of a crime scene and what it would do. Within a couple days our dogs were telling us we need to spend more time up at the reservoir, and so we dove it for 2-3 more days and put side-scan sonar, and then we find out from one of our BLM (?) Rangers that they stopped this individual coming out and were informed they had deposited some cremains in the reservoir.”
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-**NO-DISCUSSION-quot&p=12007596#post12007596
 
I had another theory... If the parents were really drunk or on drugs when Deorr had an accident, maybe in their drunk or drugged state covering it up seemed like the best thing to do. Because it just doesn't seem logical to cover up an accident, but maybe their logic was impaired.

Or what I've thought for a long time is that Deorr was unsupervised for a lot longer than they said - overnight, or whilst they went to the store perhaps. And he did genuinely wander off and perished somewhere, and made it outside the search zone or was taken by an animal or LE just missed him. And the parents have been lying the whole time to cover up their neglect even though they didn't kill him.

But bowerman's latest statements say they know where he is. But maybe Bowerman is wrong, I don't know.
 
And my only thought is that if it wasn't accidental and was premeditated then maybe just maybe they did pass him off to someone els. I just can't think of a reason they'd premeditate their childs murder. It doesn't make sense. Or maybe he really is lost and le has got this one wrong.

I know. It's an option I just can't bear to think about. It makes my heart hurt.
 
Long time lurker here, but first time posting. Have followed many many cases on here, and have followed this one almost from the beginning. My only thoughts are - is this is a repeat of Caylee Anthony? I'm thinking that perhaps drugs were used so that little Deorr would go right to sleep. IMO he never woke up from being put to bed Thursday night - possible overdose? If this was used regularly on him, then I'm sure it would have shown up on an autopsy. At any rate, this is sooo heartbreaking!!

:welcome: and good thinking about the accidental overdose...
 
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