ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #17

[renarde]

She has family members who are quite active in this case--even just by MSM. Perhaps they could help her find a lawyer?


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Perhaps.

 

[OSpyder]

She has family members who are quite active in this case--even just by MSM. Perhaps they could help her find a lawyer?


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Exactly! And why wouldn't they help her find an attorney? Which also brings me to a question I have seen asked upthread, why would her family divert any donations from Miracles for Little Man to other causes (other than the obvious reasons as JM and DK are now suspects). Does JM's family know something? How about DK's family? DK Sr. Sr. Is awfully confident.. Hopeful, maybe? Idk. :sigh: :thinking:

 

[kammiemc]

I just had a horrible thought!!!
What if we all never know? What if this turns into a ten year mystery?

If the parents did it or didnt and just stick to their story then what? Seems like LE is fishing for anything to bring charges so that kinda makes me feel that as of today they just don't have enough for a charge. So if they just keep saying they didn't have anything to do with it...then what?
I think I know what Klein may have ment by the grand jury comment.

I think they probably, IMO, have enough for "charges"--who knows what, but let's say, for the sake of argument, they have enough for charges like neglect, falsifying a police report and wire fraud.

What they might be "fishing" for, or what I think of as "investigating," might be for enough specific evidence to bring very specific charges for DeOrr's death. You can't convict people just because it's obvious.

It's true that they may never know. Maybe they need to know the location of the remains. But at least the truth is out as to who the investigators think done it. Whether or not they are convicted (think Casey Anthony) now we know where their investigation has led them.


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[renarde]

By cannot, do you mean she is incapable of functioning (for whatever reason, as there seem to be many in such a tragic scenario) or that somebody kinda has her hands tied behind her back (metaphorically speaking). I mean, I can't help but notice how PO'd she looks in a lot of her pictures. She tends to do the sideways glare a LOT towards DK. Am I just imaging that?

I just think she may be incapable of functioning right now, for whatever reason. She and everyone around her are probably in shock.

 

[TeaTime]

FWIW - and this may get snipped - the general consensus of those who live around and know IR state that he has the mental abilities of perhaps a 6th grader. (they also state he is sweet, kind and loving) So, while one would expect a 6th grader to understand the questions and be able to answer truthfully, and to have a full command of the English language, one would not expect them to recognize the nuances of words chosen in the questions or be able to determine where the line of questioning was headed.

Although we do not see him on screen, I can not believe that IR's lawyer was not present with him in the room and giving him hand signals when there was a question asked which he was not to answer. No atty. would leave it up to their client to determine which questions, if answered, would reveal evidence that LE wishes to keep secret.

SB said that IR and GGP both rated inconclusive on their polys but it was determined to be a result of their mental capacity (and maybe medication for GGP IIRC). If SB isn't spinning yarn I suggest that they both read deceptive on even baseline questions such as their names and the color of their shirts and therefore the tests were inconclusive. While results can still be obtained by adjusting for the baseline readings, at some point the test becomes useless.

The parents polys were problematic on questions such as 'do you know what happened to DeOrr?" and "do you know where DeOrr is located?", in other words, on details crucial to the investigation. I suggest that they were, however, fine on the baseline questions - hence their readings are hinkey where IR's and GGP's are not.

Hope this makes sense.

My opinion only, yours may differ.

 

[OSpyder]

I just think she may be incapable of functioning right now, for whatever reason. She and everyone around her are probably in shock.

I can't even begin to tell you how I would feel if that happened to me... [emoji17]

 

[bessie]

Exactly! And why wouldn't they help her find an attorney? Which also brings me to a question I have seen asked upthread, why would her family divert any donations from Miracles for Little Man to other causes (other than the obvious reasons as JM and DK are now suspects). Does JM's family know something? How about DK's family? DK Sr. Sr. Is awfully confident.. Hopeful, maybe? Idk. :sigh: :thinking:

I understood from this statement that family members will no longer be involved with the website. Someone else is taking over and will manage the funds. Seems like the right thing to do.

DeOrr's grandmother says the family is no longer asking for money, but the website -- Miracles For Little Man -- will remain online.

Trina Clegg says someone else is running the website. Any future money that comes in will go toward other missing children's cases.

http://www.ktvb.com/story/news/crim...-parents-suspects-his-disappearance/79301014/

 

[giagreen]

I think they probably, IMO, have enough for "charges"--who knows what, but let's say, for the sake of argument, they have enough for charges like neglect, falsifying a police report and wire fraud.

What they might be "fishing" for, or what I think of as "investigating," might be for enough specific evidence to bring very specific charges for DeOrr's death. You can't convict people just because it's obvious.

It's true that they may never know. Maybe they need to know the location of the remains. But at least the truth is out as to who the investigators think done it. Whether or not they are convicted (think Casey Anthony) now we know where their investigation has led them.


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That's what I mean tho. You said you can't convict someone just because they are obvious. And that's exactly what I mean because then if that's the case then they don't have enough for a charge at this point imo

 

[OSpyder]

I understood from this statement that family members will no longer be involved with the website. Someone else is taking over and will manage the funds. Seems like the right thing to do.

DeOrr's grandmother says the family is no longer asking for money, but the website -- Miracles For Little Man -- will remain online.

Trina Clegg says someone else is running the website. Any future money that comes in will go toward other missing children's cases.

http://www.ktvb.com/story/news/crim...-parents-suspects-his-disappearance/79301014/

You're right, Bessie. I remember reading that link now. Thank you! I think, like the rest and the best of us, I'm just grasping at straws to bring this sweet little boy some peace.

 

[redlandb]

OK, I have a couple thoughts... Everybody knows that 4 people can't keep a secret, so at least 2 of the people "think" they are telling the truth (GGP and IR). That is why they come off as cool and collected. My guess is they are being fooled.

Here is what I think happend..

Thursday evening, everybody is hanging out and having a good time. They are fishing, running around, and the such. This is when IR states DeOrr is at the campsite, because he is. This is when the "vanishing" act happens. I am not sure if this is when DeOrr was injured or it was just the last time IR sees him, but then... Later in the night or earlier (as mentioned) Deorr is killed. Now, the father (or mother) has 8-10 hours to dispose of the body because it is now night (and everybody is sleeping separate).

On Friday, IR doesn't see DeOrr because he is off fishing or hiking or something.

So, here are the 2 questions I would want to ask IR.

1.) Did you see DeOrr on Friday?
2.) Did you see DeOrr 1 hour before the 911 call?

My main point I haven't seen mentioned is what the parents did from "dusk till dawn" on Thursday night...

 

[giagreen]

FWIW - and this may get snipped - the general consensus of those who live around and know IR state that he has the mental abilities of perhaps a 6th grader. (they also state he is sweet, kind and loving) So, while one would expect a 6th grader to understand the questions and be able to answer truthfully, and to have a full command of the English language, one would not expect them to recognize the nuances of words chosen in the questions or be able to determine where the line of questioning was headed.

Although we do not see him on screen, I can not believe that IR's lawyer was not present with him in the room and giving him hand signals when there was a question asked which he was not to answer. No atty. would leave it up to their client to determine which questions, if answered, would reveal evidence that LE wishes to keep secret.

SB said that IR and GGP both rated inconclusive on their polys but it was determined to be a result of their mental capacity (and maybe medication for GGP IIRC). If SB isn't spinning yarn I suggest that they both read deceptive on even baseline questions such as their names and the color of their shirts and therefore the tests were inconclusive. While results can still be obtained by adjusting for the baseline readings, at some point the test becomes useless.

The parents polys were problematic on questions such as 'do you know what happened to DeOrr?" and "do you know where DeOrr is located?", in other words, on details crucial to the investigation. I suggest that they were, however, fine on the baseline questions - hence their readings are hinkey where IR's and GGP's are not.

Hope this makes sense.

My opinion only, yours may differ.

Makes alot of sense. Thanks for that.

 

[kammiemc]

That's what I mean tho. You said you can't convict someone just because they are obvious. And that's exactly what I mean because then if that's the case then they don't have enough for a charge at this point imo

I agree. That is not unique to this case. There needs to be specific evidence to make specific charges stick. Only time will tell!

It seems like LE would rather wait and make sure the case is air tight. But are we waiting a few days? A week? A year? Who knows.

I just feel slightly better knowing that the people who LE believes are responsible have been named officially.


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[gliving]

Perhaps.

Jessica has been publicly named a suspect in the possible homicide of her son. I have no idea how one copes, much less responds to this. Let's give her a few days to gather her wits about her. I'll be very curious to watch how she replies to the accusation.

 

[TeaTime]

JM could have already been in conference with an attorney and is just gathering the funds for the retainer. Until the contract is signed and fees are paid, there will be no announcement on her legal representation.

Neither one needs an attorney right now, all they have to do is refuse to speak to LE. If and when charges are levied then they need a lawyer. There is nothing a lawyer can do for them right now except to speak to the media on their behalf. Although the attorney can try to speak to witnesses and LE, they will just refuse him. A defendant has the right to see all the evidence against him but not a suspect.

DK wasn't the one that brought up the filthy, bawling baby, it was JM in response to a Nate question "what rumors would you like to address?" and JM brought up this one about the clerk seeing the baby and man.

DK's behavior is the most hinkey. JM looks angry and devastated and she looks mad at DK -especially in the interview done at the home where she is being held up on both sides. DK looks like a racoon cornered on a hot tin roof, afraid to jump but his feet are burning.

Just my opinion. Your is surely different.

Just my opinion.

 

[giagreen]

I agree. That is not unique to this case. There needs to be specific evidence to make specific charges stick. Only time will tell!

It seems like LE would rather wait and make sure the case is air tight. But are we waiting a few days? A week? A year? Who knows.

I just feel slightly better knowing that the people who LE believes are responsible have been named officially.


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I agree. Its actually really nice to know what way LE is going now once and for all!

The one thing that also stands out to me is it took LE six months to come out with this. I can think of at least three good reasons why that might be.

I'm just kind of worried because at this point its starting to remind me of other missing childrens cases where there was never enough to prove it but just enough for a dark cloud to forever follow the parents.

 

[Beezneez]

It seems to me that IR & lawyer gave the go ahead for this interview today as a rebuttal to the suggestion of his involvement by the families. I may eat my words later, but he doesn't seem to be someone who intentionally would hurt a child. He also doesn't seem like someone who would become agitated enough by a child to harm them. I also cannot see him carrying out this long-con of simple innocence either. Just my thoughts from the interviews (surprise at home & today). Look back at the first interview- I buy 100% after today that he was asleep, stumbled to the door & tried to cooperate with NE- without going outside the lines that he had been instructed not to discuss. Who knows what circumstances led law enforcement to accepting inconclusive poly results while still believing him, his consistent ability to tell the same story is likely a lot of it. I trust that Bowerman knows what he is doing.

 

[Beezneez]

One of my concerns for JM is a suicide risk. If she knows what happened & decides that is the way out little Deorre may never have justice. Either guilt or the wish to be with her baby could be influential enough to push her too far.

 

[bessie]

That's what I mean tho. You said you can't convict someone just because they are obvious. And that's exactly what I mean because then if that's the case then they don't have enough for a charge at this point imo

IMO, they do not have enough evidence to charge the parents at this time. For one thing, SB stated himself that they know the parents have been "less than truthful", and he believes the parents might know DeOrr's location. Beyond that, they don't know the facts.

Secondly, imho, if LE had sufficient evidence to charge the parents, even circumstantial, they would know whether he was dead or alive, or suffered an accident as opposed to intentional harm. SB, et al might have a pretty good notion of what transpired, but not the evidence to make charges stick.

JMO

Listen to SB at about 7:10 here.

http://590kid.com/2016/01/25/new-lemhi-sheriff-speaks-to-kid-about-deorr-kunz-jr-s-parent/

ETA: For the member who questioned whether SB asked the public for information regarding "unusual interaction" between the parents and DeOrr, you can hear it yourself at 1:10 in the audio recording.

 

[giagreen]

DK's behavior is the most hinkey. JM looks angry and devastated and she looks mad at DK -especially in the interview done at the home where she is being held up on both sides. DK looks like a racoon cornered on a hot tin roof, afraid to jump but his feet are burning.

Just my opinion. Your is surely different.

Just my opinion.

Is there a link for the video your talking about? Or does anyone have the link?
I've tried looking for this video in the past and for some reason could never find it. tia

 

[kammiemc]

I agree. Its actually really nice to know what way LE is going now once and for all!

The one thing that also stands out to me is it took LE six months to come out with this. I can think of at least three good reasons why that might be.

I'm just kind of worried because at this point its starting to remind me of other missing childrens cases where there was never enough to prove it but just enough for a dark cloud to forever follow the parents.

I hear ya. Let's hope that it resolves in the most accurate way it can.


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