ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #18

[CoverMeCagney]

I've followed this case from the first post (although I stopped reading during all the mountain lion discussion). I did read a lot of the SM posts. And I felt from the first interview with the parents that there was something "off". I didn't believe they deliberately did something to DeOrr -- and I don't believe that now -- but I never bought their story. As to why they would cover an accidental death, they could have been concerned about being judged for negligence (even if they weren't charged) or some other reason.

I do wonder why if GGF is mentally impaired they would leave DeOrr with him for even a short time. And why they would leave GGF for however long the Leadore trip took. And why GGF was driving in the first place. If it really was an accident, on whose watch did it happen: one or both parents or GGF (I don't think IR would have been watching him). Lots of things obviously just don't add up.

Bolded by me - in my experience/opinion a 2 year old child should not be left with somebody who can't outrun him. I say this slightly tongue in cheek but there's a truth in it somewhere.

 

[CJidaho]

According to the interview posted yesterday, IR had caught some small fish in a pail and Deorr's parents asked him to show him where he found them.

Exactly- "show us where you caught the fish Issac."

Then in their interview they stated they stated "they found some fish while exploring...." and when they went back to get little D from GGP he was gone.

Maybe it's the same story but IMO random exploring to check out their surroundings is a little different than having IR take you to a specific location to show you where the fish were found by him. UGH.

IMO If they wanted to show little D minnows they would have taken him with them in the first place, because IR already knew where the minnows were!

They didnt find them while exploring they went with IR to see them specifically. What, did they have to verify they were there before taking little D along? Makes no sense.

I mean only in the last few days did we even find out IR was with them on the walk which is odd.

SB's statement to Bessie and Tricia about not being 100% sure if anyone saw him since leaving thursday to go camping, to "feeling" like he was at the campsite is equally confusing.

 

[Mountaingazer]

I'm just questioning why Bowerman said "they tried to buy food" - it's curious to me for a few reasons. I don't think the Friday trip to the store is strange at all.

Didn't they stop at the bar Thursday night to inquire about food, but everything else was closed so they went on to the campsite and ate from cans? This could be where the "tried to buy food" comes from.

 

[LisaB]

Search & Rescue got there near 4:00 pm, referenced by Deorr in first video they were with S&R from around quarter to 4. Also in one of the very early articles it was said around 4:00.

So the unaccounted-for 3 hours was from 1PM when they returned from the store, and 4PM (1 to 4 = 3 hours) when LE arrived. Makes sense. I think the 4 hour estimate included the trip to the store, assuming that nobody had seen Deorr after that 12PM receipt from the store was printed (12 to 4 = 4 hours).

 

[GennaB]

There's so many questions here about the trip to buy food/fem care and whether or not they were prepared with enough food for the trip. I don't recall reading that they purchased a large amount of groceries when they went to the store. They simply said they bought food and feminine products, is that right? Perhaps they went for fem care and while they were there, decided to pick up a few bags of chips or hot dogs to roast or whatever. It's not uncommon to run to town for random purchases on a camping trip. In fact, I make it a point to go to town just to check out any cute antique/junk shops along the way or just explore the area a little bit. SB said he felt they had sufficient food for the trip. When you travel with a little kid, chances are you'll bring less than you actually need and you'll need to go to the store at some point. I left town last weekend with my toddler to visit my parents and I forgot to pack diapers! Does it mean I was planning to not be with my kid all weekend? No, it means I had a lot to do in one afternoon and decided I'd go to town and buy them the next day, which, I believe is probably what happened with the food/fem care situation

 

[ILOKAL]

There's so many questions here about the trip to buy food/fem care and whether or not they were prepared with enough food for the trip. I don't recall reading that they purchased a large amount of groceries when they went to the store. They simply said they bought food and feminine products, is that right? Perhaps they went for fem care and while they were there, decided to pick up a few bags of chips or hot dogs to roast or whatever. It's not uncommon to run to town for random purchases on a camping trip. In fact, I make it a point to go to town just to check out any cute antique/junk shops along the way or just explore the area a little bit. SB said he felt they had sufficient food for the trip. When you travel with a little kid, chances are you'll bring less than you actually need and you'll need to go to the store at some point. I left town last weekend with my toddler to visit my parents and I forgot to pack diapers! Does it mean I was planning to not be with my kid all weekend? No, it means I had a lot to do in one afternoon and decided I'd go to town and buy them the next day, which, I believe is probably what happened with the food/fem care situation

Excellent first post, GennaB. You certainly have separated the wheat from the chaff, and I for one appreciate that. Welcome to the forum.

 

[LisaB]

I know! This is what's bugging me.

1:10pm Jessica says they returned from the store. IR says DeOrr was alive and well at this time (as stated by Sheriff)
2:30pm Three calls made around this time to report DeOrr missing. JM reports he's been gone about an hour.
3:45pm DK says he was with SAR at this time. Who was SAR? Local volunteers from the VPD perhaps?
4:30pm ish, LE arrives, it took 3 hours from the 911 call.

I disagree that it took 3 hours for LE to arrive. They were called at "about" 2:26. They arrived at 4. that is only 1½ hours.
The time they said he had been missing prior to them calling adds on another hour. If the last sighting of him (by anyone besides the parents) was half an hour before they realized he was gone at 1:30(ish), and coincides with their return from the store, that gives you 4 hours.

 

[Rayemonde]

What makes you think it was the parents who said they saw a hair on the shovel? (Maybe I missed that in the interview) Didn't Bowerman say someone brought the shovel out from GGPA's rig?

Social media, so you'll have to take it as rumour... IMO Jessica was implying that IR did something with the shovel.

 

[Rayemonde]

"The browbeating that they've been going through with the law enforcement is too much."

Really? Sheriff Bowerman seems like about the most mild-mannered soft spoken law enforcement guy I've ever seen... hard to imagine him browbeating anyone... it's hard to take that statement seriously... MOO

Maybe the Idaho Falls LE, or the fbi, did some browbeating.

 

[LisaB]

I agree, but what a poorly planned trip (with a child, no less). It sounds like it was either planned at the last minute, or else they really weren't planning on staying very long. To have to buy other food when they had just arrived implies, to me at least, that they did not have a sufficient amount of food for even one day.

I have a little cabin in the mountains. It has a fridge, and I keep the cabinets stocked, but aside from a few items in the freezer and some sodas, we empty the fridge of leftovers, milk, and other perishables each time we leave, as we rarely go two weeks in a row. Sometimes we may PLAN to go back in 2 weeks and something comes up (as I said before, my BF is a gravedigger) and we may go 4 or 5 weeks without visiting it.

I often assemble a casserole, or shop for things for a specific meal in advance, but we generally stop for milk, eggs, cheese, and butter when we get within a few miles of the place.

I don't know if this is common or not, but at the LEAST I would think they would need to stop for ice to keep things cold (since they may not have the luxury of a freezer) and perhaps milk for the baby.

 

[Hoosier952]

So IF Deorr was alive and well at 1 pm when he was left with GGP while the parents and IR went for a walk, how long were the parents with IR? Maybe Deorr decided to catch up, maybe GGP even told them he was headed that way. Maybe they were a little irritated that Deorr didn't lay down and take a nap so they could do whatever they were wanting to do. Maybe she did keep looking back to watch Deorr walk up to them. By that time, IR may have been far enough away to not hear or see what was going on. Maybe they tried to send Deorr back to GGP a few times before getting mad and lashing out. IR's busy fishing, GGP sees Deorr walk to his parents, so he retires to the camper.

Let's say that only took 10-20 minutes. So we're sometime between 1:10 and 1:50 pm give or take, leaving 35-75 minutes to hide a body from IR and GGP. Because until they call 911, there's really no one else to hide from. In a rush, they are forced to make a quick decision, call 911 and risk going to jail or come up with a story. I imagine it wouldn't take long in a panic to make the wrong decision. They decide to go with lost child in the wilderness and realize GGP is an easy target. Jessica gives Vernal time (probably 10-17 minutes) to get Deorr out of viewing distance and back to Jessica before they play the "where's Deorr?" card. GGP is too frail to hike up a mountain to search, so he starts looking around camp. Maybe they direct IR to look around where he was fishing in case Deorr tried following him. They take off towards wherever Deorr is or maybe even split up. Maybe they tried to dig a hole, maybe they tried to bury him in a creek, whatever they tried didn't work and after 20-50 minutes or so of trying, they realize they need a better plan. Vernal decides to take him away from the camp and they agree on dual 911 calls after so many minutes. Vernal would have bought quite a bit of time to drive him a good distance away and if SAR/LE showed up before he got back, JM could have just said he drove up on one of the roads in case Deorr was walking them.

That's the scenario I'm sticking with until some new info comes out.

 

[Rayemonde]

I also have an observation that has been bugging me. Deorr's father, in an interview says something like, "Deorr was supposed to be a good boy and stay with great-grandpa". I don't recall if it's the same interview or another one, but he also said that they asked Deorr if he wanted to go with them or stay with great-grandpa and he said, "Great-grandpa".

So which was it? If the first statement is true, then this implies that one of the parents told Deorr to be a good boy and stay with great-grandpa (maybe he wasn't cooperating and didn't want to stay with ggp???). That is different than asking him if he wants to stay with great-grandpa and allowing him to make a decision (implying little Deorr was responsible enough to make that decision).

The first statement is more believable to me. The second statement just seems off. What do you all think?

In light of the timeline the Sheriff gave in this last WS interview, I find this piece of their story troubling. If Deorr was being "bad"....???

No, I don't think he ever said anything like be a good boy. I think he said something like "We thought he'd be good with grandpa", meaning We thought he'd be fine with grandpa.

 

[Kairi'sMom]

I just don't see a problem. To me, they ask little DeOrr if he wants to go with them or if he wants to stay with GGPA. DeOrr says, "GGPA". Parents say okay, now be a good boy with GGPA by the fire.

Where's the problem?

Two interviews, two different statements of how Deorr got left with GGPA.
In the first he says they asked Deorr what he wanted to do.
In the second the father said he was to be a good boy and stay with GGPA.

It may or may not be important and I really am not sure why it bothered me enough to post about it. On the surface the two statements seem to be similar enough to not be a problem, as you stated.

ETA: I just quick listened to the interviews again. At 8:49 in the first interview with just the parents is what I was posting about with the "good boy" statement, but there's no mention in the other interview on the couch, so I'm having major memory lapse today. Nevermind. Thanks for your input. Sorry to post about something that is nothing. :blushing:

 

[Rayemonde]

He did not say that the sheriff told him not to answer. This is how rumors get started.

Yes! I'm sick of people trying to make IR out to be a liar... I feel sorry for him for being stuck in the middle of this horrible situation through no fault of his own, just by being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Suddenly the whole world knows his name, people are examining his criminal history, are speculating about what health problems he may or may not have, and rumours are circulating about him. It's just not fair.

 

[ClaireNC]

Two interviews, two different statements of how Deorr got left with GGPA.
In the first he says they asked Deorr what he wanted to do.
In the second the father said he was to be a good boy and stay with GGPA.

It may or may not be important and I really am not sure why it bothered me enough to post about it. On the surface the two statements seem to be similar enough to not be a problem, as you stated.

Do you have a link for the "be a good boy and stay with ggp" comment? I don't remember hearing or reading this anywhere until here today. As Rayemonde posted a few posts back, he said something like "We thought he'd be good with grandpa", meaning, "We thought he'd be fine with grandpa". That was in the long interview with EIN.

 

[SweetT]

There's so many questions here about the trip to buy food/fem care and whether or not they were prepared with enough food for the trip. I don't recall reading that they purchased a large amount of groceries when they went to the store. They simply said they bought food and feminine products, is that right? Perhaps they went for fem care and while they were there, decided to pick up a few bags of chips or hot dogs to roast or whatever. It's not uncommon to run to town for random purchases on a camping trip. In fact, I make it a point to go to town just to check out any cute antique/junk shops along the way or just explore the area a little bit. SB said he felt they had sufficient food for the trip. When you travel with a little kid, chances are you'll bring less than you actually need and you'll need to go to the store at some point. I left town last weekend with my toddler to visit my parents and I forgot to pack diapers! Does it mean I was planning to not be with my kid all weekend? No, it means I had a lot to do in one afternoon and decided I'd go to town and buy them the next day, which, I believe is probably what happened with the food/fem care situation

Yea but you came back with your kid, if you hadn't then people would have questioned everything you did too! Just saying.

 

[charminglane]

What in the h e l l happened up there?

 

[Rayemonde]

After hearing this from the otherwise very forthcoming sheriff, I think LE do suspect abuse...

TG: You have asked for people who may have witnessed interactions between the parents and Deorr to come forward. Is there any indication that Deorr was neglected or abused prior to this camping trip?

05:42
SB: You know, that’s a part of investigation I’m…I’m not willing to talk about at this point. I know that we’re getting tips every day, people that think there’s something that’s usually small but they think it’s important for our office to know, and we’re following up on those leads as fast as we can, but they’re coming in quite frequently, so uh, you know I’d rather not comment on any…anything of that nature.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-**NO-DISCUSSION-quot&p=12319129#post12319129

 

[GennaB]

Excellent first post, GennaB. You certainly have separated the wheat from the chaff, and I for one appreciate that. Welcome to the forum.

Thank you! I've been reading this forum since poor baby boy disappeared, it's driving me crazy that they haven't found him yet but WS has given me some really good food for thought!

 

[Hoosier952]

From the interview-

Initially she didn’t even remember the parents, but when Vernal, the father, went back in there and quizzed her, she said, Oh, I remember you, but when he quizzed her about, do you remember seeing my son, she said, uh… I remember a child possibly, but I couldn’t tell if it was a male or a female.

I wonder how friendly this conversation was? Was LE there when it occurred or was this a statement from Vernal or the clerk? Were they just trying to confirm Deorr was at the store? Were they confirming the parents were at the store? Was Vernal trying to convince her she saw Deorr?