ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #18

[CoverMeCagney]

Yea but you came back with your kid, if you hadn't then people would have questioned everything you did too! Just saying.

Yep. You'd have had a thread here and we'd all be going "well she clearly meant to kill him as she didn't even have any diapers"

:lol:

 

[Rayemonde]

Anyone else notice this from Bowerman's latest interview? I thought Yikes, I'm not too thrilled about the suspects going around and "quizzing" the witnesses, and getting them to change their stories...

we also asked the clerk, did you see a child? Initially she didn’t even remember the parents, but when Vernal, the father, went back in there and quizzed her, she said, Oh, I remember you, but when he quizzed her about, do you remember seeing my son, she said, uh… I remember a child possibly, but I couldn’t tell if it was a male or a female.

 

[Onebest]

Bowerman said he was satisfied with what they had brought.

Yes, I agree, it does not seem to be an issue with him all all. He states they were cooperative, took was it 4? lie detector tests, and responded to questions. IMO he was pretty calm and quiet in his approach with them, giving them the benefit of the doubt. It appears what he and the FBI state is the parents are not being truthful about baby Deoor's disappearance and his location. I got a small feeling that he isn't even pleased with having to say they are suspects. Its just that its just so obvious to all the investigators the issue is flat in front of them and MUST be addressed.

I completely believe LE/FBI on their ability to analyze data, their resources are way beyond what we know. Of course that is just my personal opinion at this time. I have gone back and forth for months on where the parents hold responsibility. I can see some things clearly that appear irresponsible (leaving baby with GGpa on top of my list) but I am still evolving in my thoughts because so many solid facts are still missing.

The PI information is highly disturbing but they seem to put a lot of personal opinions in their statements. I think SB is trying really hard to work with what he has in front of him, a convoluted mess at times, and find baby Deoor. I need to go back and read the transcript from last night again. I am on info overload and I am sure my tracking is not at an all time high...JMO all of this.

 

[Hoosier952]

After hearing this from the otherwise very forthcoming sheriff, I think LE do suspect abuse...

Agreed. I think if they didn't suspect it, the answer would have been no. He gave the parents the benefit for quite a while and basically only outed them as suspects because he felt it was best interest of those wanting to donate. I don't think he'd want anyone speculating about abuse when he's already concerned about rumors.

 

[kammiemc]

Yea but you came back with your kid, if you hadn't then people would have questioned everything you did too! Just saying.

A very simple, yet critical insight!!!

 

[GennaB]

Yea but you came back with your kid, if you hadn't then people would have questioned everything you did too! Just saying.

I'm saying there's a lot of discussion about the family going to the store for food being highly suspicious and it's not. It's common and expected when you go camping with kids. I agree, the timeline and events are all really screwed up and I've personally suspected the parents since they announced the disappearance on the news. I'm questioning everything too but a trip to buy groceries doesn't make me think they only planned for the kid to be alive for only one day. I think that's a big leap.

 

[CJidaho]

So IF Deorr was alive and well at 1 pm when he was left with GGP while the parents and IR went for a walk, how long were the parents with IR? Maybe Deorr decided to catch up, maybe GGP even told them he was headed that way. Maybe they were a little irritated that Deorr didn't lay down and take a nap so they could do whatever they were wanting to do. Maybe she did keep looking back to watch Deorr walk up to them. By that time, IR may have been far enough away to not hear or see what was going on. Maybe they tried to send Deorr back to GGP a few times before getting mad and lashing out. IR's busy fishing, GGP sees Deorr walk to his parents, so he retires to the camper.

Let's say that only took 10-20 minutes. So we're sometime between 1:10 and 1:50 pm give or take, leaving 35-75 minutes to hide a body from IR and GGP. Because until they call 911, there's really no one else to hide from. In a rush, they are forced to make a quick decision, call 911 and risk going to jail or come up with a story. I imagine it wouldn't take long in a panic to make the wrong decision. They decide to go with lost child in the wilderness and realize GGP is an easy target. Jessica gives Vernal time (probably 10-17 minutes) to get Deorr out of viewing distance and back to Jessica before they play the "where's Deorr?" card. GGP is too frail to hike up a mountain to search, so he starts looking around camp. Maybe they direct IR to look around where he was fishing in case Deorr tried following him. They take off towards wherever Deorr is or maybe even split up. Maybe they tried to dig a hole, maybe they tried to bury him in a creek, whatever they tried didn't work and after 20-50 minutes or so of trying, they realize they need a better plan. Vernal decides to take him away from the camp and they agree on dual 911 calls after so many minutes. Vernal would have bought quite a bit of time to drive him a good distance away and if SAR/LE showed up before he got back, JM could have just said he drove up on one of the roads in case Deorr was walking them.

That's the scenario I'm sticking with until some new info comes out.

In any case IMO it seems they purposely separated IR from GGP, with the "show us where the minnows are " thing. How long that took and if they all 3 walked back together remains unknown. Perhaps they told IR to stay put while they go back to get little D. MOO

 

[Inthedetails]

I wish we knew what they purchased at the store on Friday 12:30. The possibilities I've heard are french fries, candy bar, feminine-hygiene products. Did they buy food for meals? Drinks? Ice? What were the plans for dinner and meals over the weekend?

What did they normally fix for meals when camping? Rely on what they might catch fishing?

JMO, wondering.

 

[ClaireNC]

There's so many questions here about the trip to buy food/fem care and whether or not they were prepared with enough food for the trip. I don't recall reading that they purchased a large amount of groceries when they went to the store. They simply said they bought food and feminine products, is that right? Perhaps they went for fem care and while they were there, decided to pick up a few bags of chips or hot dogs to roast or whatever. It's not uncommon to run to town for random purchases on a camping trip. In fact, I make it a point to go to town just to check out any cute antique/junk shops along the way or just explore the area a little bit. SB said he felt they had sufficient food for the trip. When you travel with a little kid, chances are you'll bring less than you actually need and you'll need to go to the store at some point. I left town last weekend with my toddler to visit my parents and I forgot to pack diapers! Does it mean I was planning to not be with my kid all weekend? No, it means I had a lot to do in one afternoon and decided I'd go to town and buy them the next day, which, I believe is probably what happened with the food/fem care situation

Great first post. Welcome to the forum, GennaB. I agree, some people are just not planners. Maybe they planned to run into town to buy the things as they needed them.

I have some friends that eat out all the time and never buy groceries. I buy fresh foods and cook from scratch all the time. Everyone has their own way of doing things and that is OK. IMO

 

[razzledazzle]

So IF Deorr was alive and well at 1 pm when he was left with GGP while the parents and IR went for a walk, how long were the parents with IR? Maybe Deorr decided to catch up, maybe GGP even told them he was headed that way. Maybe they were a little irritated that Deorr didn't lay down and take a nap so they could do whatever they were wanting to do. Maybe she did keep looking back to watch Deorr walk up to them. By that time, IR may have been far enough away to not hear or see what was going on. Maybe they tried to send Deorr back to GGP a few times before getting mad and lashing out. IR's busy fishing, GGP sees Deorr walk to his parents, so he retires to the camper.
Let's say that only took 10-20 minutes. So we're sometime between 1:10 and 1:50 pm give or take, leaving 35-75 minutes to hide a body from IR and GGP. Because until they call 911, there's really no one else to hide from. In a rush, they are forced to make a quick decision, call 911 and risk going to jail or come up with a story. I imagine it wouldn't take long in a panic to make the wrong decision. They decide to go with lost child in the wilderness and realize GGP is an easy target. Jessica gives Vernal time (probably 10-17 minutes) to get Deorr out of viewing distance and back to Jessica before they play the "where's Deorr?" card. GGP is too frail to hike up a mountain to search, so he starts looking around camp. Maybe they direct IR to look around where he was fishing in case Deorr tried following him. They take off towards wherever Deorr is or maybe even split up. Maybe they tried to dig a hole, maybe they tried to bury him in a creek, whatever they tried didn't work and after 20-50 minutes or so of trying, they realize they need a better plan. Vernal decides to take him away from the camp and they agree on dual 911 calls after so many minutes. Vernal would have bought quite a bit of time to drive him a good distance away and if SAR/LE showed up before he got back, JM could have just said he drove up on one of the roads in case Deorr was walking them.

That's the scenario I'm sticking with until some new info comes out.

BBM

I keep thinking that maybe the parents asked IR to show them where he got the minnows to distract him from the fact that DeOrr was no longer with them when they returned from the store. Perhaps getting quickly out of the truck, intercepting IR before he notices DeOrr is not with them, looking over her shoulder shouting "stay with GGP, we will be right back"... and IR just assumes DeOrr is there.

 

[charminglane]

Are donations still being accepted anywhere?

 

[haven71]

I wish that helped. It confuses me a bit more . . . "But no, nobody's seen him prior to him going to Leadore"

From the beginning, I always wondered who saw him last BEFORE the POI's? Why can't they tell us that? Like oh, Grandma saw him Thursday morning when she stopped by. So how long was it before they left that SOMEONE ELSE saw him in the flesh?

 

[Kairi'sMom]

Do you have a link for the "be a good boy and stay with ggp" comment? I don't remember hearing or reading this anywhere until here today. As Rayemonde posted a few posts back, he said something like "We thought he'd be good with grandpa", meaning, "We thought he'd be fine with grandpa". That was in the long interview with EIN.

I think I might be confusing a written article's general statement of what happened with the family interview on the couch. I'm sorry to cause any confusion. One statement I referred to is at 8:49 on the long interview. The other I can't find, so I'm in error one way or another.

 

[ClaireNC]

In any case IMO it seems they purposely separated IR from GGP, with the "show us where the minnows are " thing. How long that took and if they all 3 walked back together remains unknown. Perhaps they told IR to stay put while they go back to get little D. MOO

Where did anybody say that the parents said to IR "show us where the minnows are?" I don't remember seeing that.

The sheriff said the three of them (Vernal, Jessica and Isaac) went off to go fishing. Vernal said in the EIN interview that he found minnows and thought Deorr would be excited to see them. Are we maybe combining those two comments and bending them into something else?

 

[giagreen]

"The browbeating that they've been going through with the law enforcement is too much."

Really? Sheriff Bowerman seems like about the most mild-mannered soft spoken law enforcement guy I've ever seen... hard to imagine him browbeating anyone... it's hard to take that statement seriously... MOO

I think they are probably dealing woth many more officers then just sb.

 

[CJidaho]

BBM

I keep thinking that maybe the parents asked IR to show them where he got the minnows to distract him from the fact that DeOrr was no longer with them when they returned from the store. Perhaps getting quickly out of the truck, intercepting IR before he notices DeOrr is not with them, looking over her shoulder shouting "stay with GGP, we will be right back"... and IR just assumes DeOrr is there.

Ah yes ! very simple and fits. IR believes even moreso that little D must have been there because they start frantically searching for him, and he trusts them. MOO. And I always remember in the IR interview he says he has changed since the incident of being more "skeptical of people."

 

[giagreen]

Agreed, I watched that interview the minute it was released, I refreshed that page 100 times waiting to hear it, and IR never said LE's told him not to answer questions.

I think it was Klein who said he new for a fact IR wasn't asked by le to not say anything. So Idk where Klein would of gotten it from.

 

[Rayemonde]

I'm saying there's a lot of discussion about the family going to the store for food being highly suspicious and it's not. It's common and expected when you go camping with kids. I agree, the timeline and events are all really screwed up and I've personally suspected the parents since they announced the disappearance on the news. I'm questioning everything too but a trip to buy groceries doesn't make me think they only planned for the kid to be alive for only one day. I think that's a big leap.

Yeah, I think the trip to the store might be a red herring... LE (IMO and AFAIK) seems to be working with the theory that DeOrr was alive and at the campsite after the trip to the store, then something happened (maybe a harsh punishment for DeOrr resting in death), then parents covered it up and then called 911.

 

[haven71]

One of my theories has been that there was an accident and subsequent cover-up. Whether it took place at the campsite or elsewhere is anyone's guess. A motive to cover up the accident could be that Deorr has injuries not apparent on the outside, but that would be uncovered by an autopsy.

After hearing this from the otherwise very forthcoming sheriff, I think LE do suspect abuse...



http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-**NO-DISCUSSION-quot&p=12319129#post12319129

 

[ILOKAL]

Yes! I'm sick of people trying to make IR out to be a liar... I feel sorry for him for being stuck in the middle of this horrible situation through no fault of his own, just by being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Suddenly the whole world knows his name, people are examining his criminal history, are speculating about what health problems he may or may not have, and rumours are circulating about him. It's just not fair.

Most here seem to believe that if you're a POI in a crime, which Reinwand clearly is, (especially one involving the disappearance of a child), it's to be expected. Is there some exception for him that some of us might not be privy to?