ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #18

[pepelepolecat]

Most here seem to believe that if you're a POI in a crime, which Reinwand clearly is, (especially one involving the disappearance of a child), it's to be expected. Is there some exception for him that some of us might not be privacy to?

When the parents were merely POIs, it was not considered appropriate to sleuth them or any criminal history (if they have any, which I haven't seen evidence of), nor was it appropriate to spread rumors about them. IMO, IR should be granted that same courtesy. But he may not be considered a victim in the same way the parents were at the time.

 

[iluvmua]

So do we finally know what JM/DK bought at the stage stop?

 

[iluvmua]

JM & DK just need to man and woman up and tell the whole truth.........

They will be going to prison for a while anyways. jmo

 

[CJidaho]

Are the fish he found minnows? I had the impression that IR had caught some fish or found a good fishing spot, not that he found minnows.

• At some point in the afternoon DeOrr Kunz Sr. and Mitchell go for a hike leaving the then 2 1/2-year-old in the care of his great-grandfather, Robert Walton. Walton later tells investigators he thinks the child went over the bank to meet with his parents.
• About 15 minutes later the parents make their way to a part of a creek where friend, Isaac Reinwand, was fishing for minnows.
• The parents go to grab DeOrr and show him the minnows, but cannot find him.
link
http://magicvalley.com/news/local/c...cle_42d82c8a-71b8-5324-82eb-7c38a0020b9b.html

 

[LietKynes]

Marking my spot.
Where are you, little DeOrr ?
And as far as their stories changing.. the time he went 'missing' to the time they were questioned wasn't THAT LONG.
When something traumatic happens, the other, lesser events of that day can stand out very vividly ; imo.
Kind of sad the way that works.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

I am confused why this matters so much? Please help!

I'm not sure it does in this case. But I have mentioned Becky Watts case before - when her killers went to the store after they killed her, they bought a circular saw (to chop her up), a dozen rolls of cling film (to wrap her up) and loads of drain cleaner and bleach (to cover up). It rang alarm bells!

 

[Rayemonde]

From Bowerman's October 2015 interview with Tricia. Direct quote from Bowerman:

The family came back to the campground. Uh the friend said he was catching some fish and, and the parents said, “Well can you show us the fish?” They start down to the creek which is about 50 feet below the campground, and it’s not very well observed from the campground, in fact you actually can’t see the creek. You can hear it.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...Timelines-and-Maps-**NO-DISCUSSION-quot/page2

 

[ClaireNC]

This is something I always thought was weird. DeOrr was going to stay with GGP and take his nap, but JM and DK went back after 50 yards/10 minutes because DK saw a minnow he thought DeOrr would want to see. First of all - it took them 10 minutes to walk 50 yards? Second - DeOrr was supposed to be napping why would they go back for him so quickly?

I don't think IR would bother catching minnows.

Aside from the fact that the whole story is hinky. I don't see the 50 yards/10 minutes particularly alarming. If they were strolling along the creek looking for critters in the water it could take 10 minutes to move that far. And the bit about going back to get Deorr so he could see the fish is not odd in itself, but it was part of Vernal's rambling interview where in general he gave too much information about really unimportant things.

Just to add, keeping the facts straight and all that, I don't remember hearing anybody say that little Deorr was supposed to be taking a nap while he was with grandpa. I thought he was playing with his truck in the dirt. IMO

 

[scmom]

I would guess the most important questions to be asked of all four adults would be whether they knew what happened to DeOrr and where he is. So, if the answer to the critical questions were deemed to be "less than truthful" by the parents what would a reasonable person conclude? That IR and GGP answered the same questions with the same results? I notice SB didn't mention that was the case.

 

[ILOKAL]

BBM

I keep thinking that maybe the parents asked IR to show them where he got the minnows to distract him from the fact that DeOrr was no longer with them when they returned from the store. Perhaps getting quickly out of the truck, intercepting IR before he notices DeOrr is not with them, looking over her shoulder shouting "stay with GGP, we will be right back"... and IR just assumes DeOrr is there.

Reinwand has said he actually SAW DeOrr after they returned from the store.

 

[cobalt sky]

Yeah I had to double check myself....

VILT

I started finding little…little things that they were inconsistent. Their stories didn’t jive. One was the timeline, and there was some overemphasis of Jessica, uh…stating that she knew the boy was in the campground because she kept looking back – “I kept looking back…I kept looking back…” and it seemed like this was like an overkill. Why would she keep saying this over and over and over again? She wanted to establish that the boy was in the campground. This was after they came back from town and um they saw some fish that Isaac and Bob, the grandfather, caught and so Deorr says, “Well show me where those fish are. Where’d you catch those fish?” And so they went off with Jessica, Deorr and Isaac went off to the creek where they caught fish supposedly, and Jessica kept saying, “I kept looking back to make sure Little Man was there. I kept looking back…kept looking back...”

From Bowerman's October 2015 interview with Tricia. Direct quote from Bowerman:

"The family came back to the campground. Uh the friend said he was catching some fish and, and the parents said, “Well can you show us the fish?” They start down to the creek which is about 50 feet below the campground, and it’s not very well observed from the campground, in fact you actually can’t see the creek. You can hear it."

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...Timelines-and-Maps-**NO-DISCUSSION-quot/page2

And here is what DK said in his interview on July 13th:

"...I seen him to the point I figured out he was gone and I come back up from the creek and I actually seen there were some things down there, little minnows I thought he would just love, so when I come back up to get him and I yelled over to Grandpa..."

As you can see, SB and FV versions pretty much match. And in DK's version, IR is noticeably absent, as was the case throughout the entire interview. Never mentioned once. I think that DK told this version of the "fishing/minnows story" because he wanted to avoid mentioning IR in the interview, for whatever reason.

 

[Rayemonde]

I think that IR and Ggp have some health issues or memory problems that make their polygraphs inconclusive. that is what LE have said, and I believe it.

I think that the parents are bare-faced liars, who have lied, and lied, and lied again to try and get themselves out of trouble. And I think LE, the fbi, and two PI's hired by the family have come to the same conclusion. I don't think Vilt is lying about what the parents told him, and I don't think everybody else is just mistaken or trying to frame the parents.

And this is not something I say lightly.

MOO.

 

[bluesneakers]

Aside from the fact that the whole story is hinky. I don't see the 50 yards/10 minutes particularly alarming. If they were strolling along the creek looking for critters in the water it could take 10 minutes to move that far. And the bit about going back to get Deorr so he could see the fish is not odd in itself, but it was part of Vernal's rambling interview where in general he gave too much information about really unimportant things.

Just to add, keeping the facts straight and all that, I don't remember hearing anybody say that little Deorr was supposed to be taking a nap while he was with grandpa. I thought he was playing with his truck in the dirt. IMO

They said it was naptime, he was getting ready to take his nap, and he was going to be good with grandpa. That was from the initial interview so maybe they changed it and I missed it.

 

[scmom]

"...I seen him to the point I figured out he was gone and I come back up from the creek and I actually seen there were some things down there, little minnows I thought he would just love, so when I come back up to get him and I yelled over to Grandpa..."

How does this statement make any sense?

 

[AmyPond]

I am only on page 2 of this thread. I read the interview transcript. Just want to make one comment before I go back and read everything....

Yesterday, I assumed LE had multiple reasons to name the parents as suspects. But the interview made it seem like it's JUST the polygraph. That concerns me a bit.

Okay...off to read what everyone else is saying.

 

[ILOKAL]

He hasn't been named a suspect.

He gave an interview and some are commenting. Klein commented ON that interview and some on commenting on his comments. Bowerman commented. So some comments are to be expected. I haven't seen anything disparaging such as Rayemonde has described.

 

[wondering25]

I do not think this case was handled well. Bowerman WAS solid with the parents. The FBI were not called in until many days later. Bowerman was on the side of the family with the social media thing and everything else in the beginning. it was sloppy and unprofessional, imo. Now, his tune has changed dramatically. Sorry... this was a mess and the FBI should have been brought in quickly. All the SAR were volunteers per his radio interview last night. Dont know what level of skill that even entails, if any.

IMO, local LE failed in this case.

Anything i write is just my opinion.

 

[desert-blue]

Reinwand has said he actually SAW DeOrr after they returned from the store.

The sheriff has stated that no one saw DeOrr with 100% certainty at any point on the trip.

Bowerman: I’m fairly confident DeOrr was there. I can’t find anybody that says they’re 100 percent positive he was there, but I feel fairly confident he was there at one time.

 

[ILOKAL]

Not sure if this has been posted yet..
http://www.eastidahonews.com/2016/01/sheriff-i-just-pray-little-deorr-will-be-found/

"Lemhi sheriff: I just pray little DeOrr will be found"

That's pretty much what I anticipated in my post yesterday morning. That the "less than truthful" are minuscule. I (modsnip)

Thanks for the link, Onebest.

 

[sunflowerchick]

Bowerman said it is the opinion of the FBI that the parents are being "less than truthful", not that they aren't being truthful. I wish everyone would go through the interview and count the number of times Bowerman said THOSE exact words. Maybe you think that means nothing. Maybe you think it's merely a matter of semantics. Think about this. ALL FOUR POI's were given multiple polygraphs and EVERY SINGLE ONE of them came back inconclusive. I don't recall how many Walton and Reinwand were given, but the parents were given FOUR! Bowerman said they're still cooperating. Come in every time they've been asked. Given him everything he's asked for. Everyone should do some research about "exactly" what's been said. So Bowerman answered the question (thanks Tricia) about why he (immediately) changed what he had said about the parents polygraphs from having showed deception" to showing the parents were "less than truthful". Bowerman cannot say their polygraphs indicate deception (which is a fail) because they did NOT fail, not ONE, but FOUR polygraphs. Yes, Bowerman said the reason he changed what he said from "indicated deception" to "less than truthful" was because he didn't want people to think the parents had been deceptive in ALL of their polygraph questions. (no comment). Does anyone wonder why ALL four people present at the campsite had multiple polygraphs returned inconclusive? So far, the timeline provided by everyone there seems to be the same, and everything the parents have said occurred seems to have happened. Maybe those in charge of this investigation are just, plain wrong! IMO

Thank you! ITA!

We can try to complicate this as much as we want but Occam's Razor would indicate that this happened the way they said it did. This little boy is still somewhere on that mountain, and sadly that means he is deceased.