ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #18

[Yvettea]

I believe I agree with Klein about the timeline. It starts when the parents left for Leadore (or at least when they leave Leadore) and ends when LE arrives (~ 4 hrs. )

 

[ModernAudrey]

Well! Fancy that! The lady refused to be identified in any way, she happened to be from Idaho Falls, and according to Vilt, she and Vernal used almost exactly the same words to describe the vehicle... Anyone else think this was a set up by the parents?

If you are correct--and I think you are--what a special touch with the "four little blond boys" angle. I can't describe why, but something about that clever little addition is just incredibly nauseating to me.

 

[Sillybilly]

I'm way behind and I was not able to listen to the interview (I'm catching snippets through these awesome posts), so this may be itrelevant by now, but...

<rsbm>

Here's a link to the transcription of Tricia and Bessie's interview with Sheriff Bowerman last night:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-**NO-DISCUSSION-quot&p=12319129#post12319129

 

[ILOKAL]

I hate to say it, but this case reminds me more of the Caylee Anthony case every day. Dear God, please let me be wrong.

That said, I think it's very possible Deorr wandered off and none of them have a clue what happened to him, maybe they were under the influence of something, IDK.

My position is that little DeOrr wandered off and is out there, probably in the area already searched. I want nothing more than for this sweet little boy to be found so that his family can give him a proper burial and for them to have some degree of closure to this madness. I simply do not agree that for DeOrr to have wandered off unseen, those there would need to have been under the influence for that to have happened, and there are plenty of prior and similar cases to prove it, the most recent one being little Noah Chamberlin and just before that, little Jerold in Arizona.

 

[neesaki]

Dang, serioulsy? how would he pull all that off without a clue in a MUCH smaller time frame and the parents not being all over him?

Keeping in mind that I'm not saying I am suspicious of IR when I say this, but maybe it comes down to the parents being away from Deorr significantly longer than they have claimed, which is what I truly believe, JMO. That said, I'm suspicious of all of them. I think it's on a 24 hour cycle, maybe 48 hour, that I change my mind, but that's where I am right now. :sigh:

 

[redlandb]

So the SB interview seems to suggest that JM stated GPP was the last to see Deorr alive, correct? I wonder when we will hear his statement?

 

[lifeisahighway]

I would love to know what happened after they returned from the stage shop and before they allegedly went to the creek and left DeOrr with ggp. How much time were they back at camp before their little walk? Or was it, they come back from the store and immediately go down to the creek?

 

[Aeronomy]

In the initial interview JM said she called 911 at 2:36. At the time I didn't think much about it other than it just happened to be the time of the call. Today I started to wonder if anything could have prompted the call to happen when it did . . . so I checked the weather.

and I can't help but wonder if they felt they really had no choice once it started to rain. They had no way of knowing it was just going to be a light rain lasting about an hour.

Expanded version:http://www.wunderground.com/history...wmo=99999&theprefset=SHOWMETAR&theprefvalue=1

Summarized version: http://www.wunderground.com/history....zip=83464&reqdb.magic=1&reqdb.wmo=99999&MR=1

 

[CJidaho]

<modsnip>

He was up there with SAR and they were letting him search potentially dangerous bear dens. Doesn't sound right to me.

I've been in the Colorado and Idaho mountains A LOT and I've never seen a bear den. That is just silly. A bear den isn't something you just know where they are and search

 

[Elle*Bee]

nope. I don't believe any one of them.

I've been camping. I almost sat on a porcupine once in a port-a-potty not the ones you use at a tailgate, the real deal fold-up ones with disposable garbage bags).

never once did we sleep in a car though. you go camping, you pitch a tent.

<modsnip>

BBM. Sounds like the porcupine could've resulted in a real pain in the....:blushing: I've slept in vehicles on campouts, usually due to mosquitoes. I'm highly sensitive to their bites and sometimes what works as a repellent on one trip/one locale might not work on another. Just offering perspective.

 

[Hoosier952]

Snipped-So what happened in 10 days to totally change his opinion? I wonder if this was the time the reward was going to be offered and the parents declined? Perhaps he was waiting payment for expenses and it didn't come so he was angry? I wonder what he is referring to what he says he had told them he would withdraw from the investigation if in his professional opinion, both of you (the parents) lied and misrepresented true facts.....Sorry can't cut and paste from this link with the letter but you can read it there. I am wondering? What happened?

BBm- I'm almost positive something happened at the re-enactment that raised some flags. What a perfect time for a ton of inconsistencies to show up. Now it's not just telling a story, it's acting out a play. I bet no one there was planning on a re-enactment and didn't have time to study.

If you are correct--and I think you are--what a special touch with the "four little blond boys" angle. I can't describe why, but something about that clever little addition is just incredibly nauseating to me.

Oh geesh, I never noticed that at all or the same adjectives for the Jeep. I will say that a Rubicon decal is normally found on the sides of the hood and would be fairly easy to see if it had them. I can't imagine a mom calling in a tip to PI about a creep and then going on in detail about her sons. And what would make her think that specific driver/vehicle combo was worth calling in? My only concern before I get too wrapped up in this statement, is what if Vilt was putting his own spin on it to make it look more credible?

 

[bluesneakers]

In the initial interview JM said she called 911 at 2:36. At the time I didn't think much about it other than it just happened to be the time of the call. Today I started to wonder if anything could have prompted the call to happen when it did . . . so I checked the weather.

and I can't help but wonder if they felt they really had no choice once it started to rain. They had no way of knowing it was just going to be a light rain lasting about an hour.

Because no matter what their story was it wouldn't be believable if they didn't call once it started to rain?
I'm not sure I understand.

 

[neesaki]

IMO 2.5 year old babies don't get ready to take a nap on their own. They might pass out but they don't FIND a place to nap, get settled and fall asleep on their own especially in the middle of a campground. In a new exciting place I would think most kids would have a hard time settling down and need Mom or Dad to help them calm down, maybe lay down with them. Never any discussion about anyone helping baby Deoor do that that I can remember. Dad saying he was ready for a nap, will be OK with Gpa...hmmm just doesn't mean much to me personally or make sense. If GGpa was going to put him down for a nap? this it doesn't appear to have been talked about as the parents left, no directions to where his blanket and monkey are, his pillow, where he is going to sleep. I have put a lot of babies down for a nap and I want specific's as Grandma and creature comforts to give to the grandkids and watch them while they settle. But then again, that's just me.

This part of the story is so hinky to me I just can't get a good grasp on it. I wonder if GGpa is being protected for some reason? Are the parents trying to cover for something he did by accident? AFAIK Jessica's Mom seems really close to her Dad, is she insisting that Jessica protect him for her from some sad accident that happened? These questions come to my mind quite often but its all pure speculation of course, just my opinions.

I was waiting on someone besides myself to bring this up because it's been on my mind as well. I'm not sure why they would go to this extent to protect him, that's my biggest problem. Especially Vernal, it's not his grandfather. My mind keeps going back to the ax and coveralls. As you though, just pure speculation.

 

[Aeronomy]

Because no matter what their story was it wouldn't be believable if they didn't call once it started to rain?
I'm not sure I understand.

Not what I mean. In fact, the more I look at the weather, the more the weather conditions support the events as we know them.
If he wandered off, the rain starting to fall was the point of we need to call and get somebody up here before it gets worse.

In support of him wandering off . . at 1:42 the thunder begins to roll as the wind kicks up. The parents hear it and decide it's time to head back to camp. They search about 45 minutes until it starts to rain, and then decide to call.

In support of something more sinister happening - the thunder rolls, the wind kicks up, and DK/JM realize they need to get this plan into action.

They're outside in the elements. The weather is going to affect their decisions . . imho.

 

[ILOKAL]

I would love to know what happened after they returned from the stage shop and before they allegedly went to the creek and left DeOrr with ggp. How much time were they back at camp before their little walk? Or was it, they come back from the store and immediately go down to the creek?

Let's see. Bowerman has the time-stamped receipt from the store. According to Bowerman, Jessica states they returned from the store at 1:10. Bowerman accepts that as close enough (because he has the receipt) and puts their return time anywhere from about 1 - 1:30. Jessica called 911 at 2:28 and told dispatch they had searched for about an hour. In the first interview, Jessica states they were at the creek for about ten minutes. So, let's add it up. They leave DeOrr with GGPA at about 1:15, return ten minutes later and discover DeOrr is missing at 1:25, they search for him for an hour, which brings us to 2:25, and she calls 911 at 2:28. Anything missing?

 

[bluesneakers]

I would love to know what happened after they returned from the stage shop and before they allegedly went to the creek and left DeOrr with ggp. How much time were they back at camp before their little walk? Or was it, they come back from the store and immediately go down to the creek?

I'm curious too. I know in other missing kid cases I've followed similar details have been shared. This is still a mystery though.

 

[TeaTime]

So, all this 'new' stuff and we are back from where we started; at the campsite with the baby going missing in a very narrow window of time.

IR puts the baby at the campsite after the return from the store in Leadore and before the walk to the creek with the parents for whatever reason they went.

Then poof! Gone.

How did they pull this off without help?

 

[lifeisahighway]

It just seems so strange that the very second they return from the store they go down to the creek and that just so happens to be when DeOrr disappears. I don't know what I think of it, I just know that it's weird.

 

[Sillybilly]

I've been in the Colorado and Idaho mountains A LOT and I've never seen a bear den. That is just silly. A bear den isn't something you just know where they are and search

Let alone stick your head in to see who's there?

 

[Aeronomy]

Let's see. Bowerman has the time-stamped receipt from the store. According to Bowerman, Jessica states they returned from the store at 1:10. Bowerman accepts that as close enough (because he has the receipt) and puts their return time anywhere from about 1 - 1:30. Jessica called 911 at 2:28 and told dispatch they had searched for about an hour. In the first interview, Jessica states they were at the creek for about ten minutes. So, let's add it up. They leave DeOrr with GGPA at about 1:15, return ten minutes later and discover DeOrr is missing at 1:25, they search for him for an hour, which brings us to 2:25, and she calls 911 at 2:28. Anything missing?

Why do you think she corrected DK by saying she called at 2:36 during the interview? It's such a precise time.

Not pinpointing you, just trying to get thoughts about that.