ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #2

[La Louve]

Warning: I've been trying to get caught up and am jumping back and forth between the back pages and the current ones, so maybe this has already been addressed.

Someone a while back posted they didn't think it could be a cougar attack because there was no blood. But I found this case where a 3 year old boy disappeared and his remains were found years later at the top of a cliff 500 feet above where the boy disappeared. The state of his clothes led a wildlife biologist to confirm it was a cougar attack that caused the boy's death.

It just seems to me like it is possible for a cougar attack to leave little to no evidence. Especially with a small prey animal or child could be caught totally unawares and unable to fight back, and incapacitated nearly immediately while being carried away.

Here's the link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_cougar_attacks_in_North_America The boy's name is Jaryd Atadero, disappeared October 2, 1999, found in June 2003.

 

[leilarose68]

This is kind of random, but do we know what kind of cowboy boots Deorr was wearing? My idea of cowboy boots is that they're always a little bit loose on the foot, which makes me feel like one definitely would have fallen off in the creek or if a cougar took Deorr

 

[SleuthMom]

It just seems to me like it is possible for a cougar attack to leave little to no evidence. Especially with a small prey animal or child could be caught totally unawares and unable to fight back, and incapacitated nearly immediately while being carried away.

Yes but in order to be carried away, the wild animal has to drag the victim and in our case there is no sign of little Deorr being dragged. I repeat, there is NO signs whatsoever or prints, or blood, or ANYTHING. Again, I would like to know if anyone puts Deorr at the campsite that day, any witnesses?

 

[leilarose68]

Warning: I've been trying to get caught up and am jumping back and forth between the back pages and the current ones, so maybe this has already been addressed.

Someone a while back posted they didn't think it could be a cougar attack because there was no blood. But I found this case where a 3 year old boy disappeared and his remains were found years later at the top of a cliff 500 feet above where the boy disappeared. The state of his clothes led a wildlife biologist to confirm it was a cougar attack that caused the boy's death.

It just seems to me like it is possible for a cougar attack to leave little to no evidence. Especially with a small prey animal or child could be caught totally unawares and unable to fight back, and incapacitated nearly immediately while being carried away.

Here's the link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_cougar_attacks_in_North_America The boy's name is Jaryd Atadero, disappeared October 2, 1999, found in June 2003.

This is VERY interesting and helpful for sure. It does seem very unlikely that a cougar would take Deorr and there would be zero trace. I feel like there would at least be a shred of his clothes and cowboy boots somewhere.

I imagine this all also depends on feeding season for the cougars... do the cougars have lots of regular prey to eat? I imagine this would affect whether it would go after a boy and consume all his clothes or not.

Even so, there would be some kind of trace.

 

[SleuthMom]

This is kind of random, but do we know what kind of cowboy boots Deorr was wearing? My idea of cowboy boots is that they're always a little bit loose on the foot, which makes me feel like one definitely would have fallen off in the creek or if a cougar took Deorr

It was stated earlier on that he was wearing oversized boots.

 

[leilarose68]

What mileage radius have they checked? (Sorry, cannot remember). Was just talking to someone who knew of a 2 year old who got lost in a National Park or Forest...They found him 48 hours later, 5 miles away and just fine. That's really far for a 2 year old to travel....The guy is now in his 40s. All he remembers is when he was found....

I think it's also important to remember that Deorr was wearing cowboy boots. *edit: oversized cowboy boots i am told* I imagine they could very well impede his movement/cause him to trip over all the uneven, super rough land. Actually I feel like based on the nature of the boots, it's very unlikely Deorr would have made it far at all on his own. He most definitely would have fallen quite early on and started crying.

The oversized cowboy boots (at least one) would certainly also have fallen off if a cougar took Deorr and also would have fallen off and sunken to the bottom of the creek if that scenario was the case.

 

[Eileen730]

Has anyone at all taken polygraphs?

 

[SleuthMom]

Do we know at what time they reached the campsite and at what time the parents went to explore?

 

[jashrema]

Has anyone at all taken polygraphs?

LE says parents have but said, "They don't know results and Sheriff didn't know when they took them." Yes...strange but true

 

[SleuthMom]

Has anyone at all taken polygraphs?

Yes, the parents but the results are unknown to the public. They were not released.

 

[keeponsearching]

Do we know at what time they reached the campsite and at what time the parents went to explore?

I think they got to the campsite at 1.

 

[LietKynes]

Yes but in order to be carried away, the wild animal has to drag the victim and in our case there is no sign of little Deorr being dragged. I repeat, there is NO signs whatsoever or prints, or blood, or ANYTHING. Again, I would like to know if anyone puts Deorr at the campsite that day, any witnesses?

RSBM

I believe a store clerk observed DeOrr and his dad or great grandpa . I'm assuming LE followed this up and are satisfied with the clerk's account--- and that the clerk KNEW it was DeOrr and not a different child.
Afaik, this has been the only witness other than the family. LE has ruled out the family including great grandpa and friend, so they (le) must be certain of this.

We obviously are not privvy to everything LE knows, and that's probably wise. I feel that LE has probably interviewed at length anyone who can vouch for having seen DeOrr going along with his parents to the campsite.


:moo:

 

[leilarose68]

It was stated earlier on that he was wearing oversized boots.

editt

 

[Mountaingazer]

http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/07/lemhi-sheriff-on-deorr-kunz-we-do-not-suspect-foul-play/

In an email to EastIdahoNews.com, Bowerman confirmed Deorr’s parents, Deorr Kunz Sr. and Jessica Mitchell, took lie detector tests but the sheriff did not say whether they passed or failed.

(snipped)

A remote-operated drone will be used Wednesday help with the search in the area where the two-year-old disappeared. Bowerman said the Twin Falls County Sheriff’s Office will fly their drone in an effort to cover areas that are difficult to access on foot.

“They are just photographing the area in case this should ever turn into a criminal investigation,” Bowerman said. “They are not looking for anything in particular, just a photo of the area in general.”

I think that last bit says a lot. This was not conjecture from media, but a direct quote from the sheriff.

This kind of reminds me of William Tyrell's case. Not the circumstances, but LE respone. They searched the bush and surrounding areas extensively while claiming there were no signs of foul play. Then after a couple weeks they started releasing statements that seemed at odds with no foul play being involved. Suddenly homicide detectives were involved, there was a POI, etc and we find out they had been investigating from a criminal perspective all along.

 

[4senthia]

Do we know at what time they reached the campsite and at what time the parents went to explore?

The only "info" I have is from links posted earlier, such as the timeline and the mom's 911 call.
She said they arrived @the campsite at 1pm. And placed call to 911 @approx 2:30.
That's only one and a half hours. Am I wrong in thinking that at first it was posted that they searched for an hour?
Now that we've been corrected on that, it seems to have been a search of about 20 mins.
Also add in the new confirmed info of more than one vehicle @the site.

>Can't remember who just posted, but do we have any proof that the store had cameras? I'd really like to know because that would settle the strange difference in clerk's version of spotting the (her words) "filthy bawling" toddler w/the man in the black truck.<
Still holding out for a live Deorr.
jmho

 

[SleuthMom]

RSBM

I believe a store clerk observed DeOrr and his dad or great grandpa . I'm assuming LE followed this up and are satisfied with the clerk's account--- and that the clerk KNEW it was DeOrr and not a different child.
Afaik, this has been the only witness other than the family. LE has ruled out the family including great grandpa and friend, so they (le) must be certain of this.

We obviously are not privvy to everything LE knows, and that's probably wise. I feel that LE has probably interviewed at length anyone who can vouch for having seen DeOrr going along with his parents to the campsite.


:moo:

So we are just assuming the clerk confirmed it was Deorr and his dad but we do not know for sure because we do not have that information.

 

[JLSChook]

(stands up, brushes self off)

Woooh, that was a pretty deep rabbit hole. So glad I made it out! Did the rest of you make it out with me?! :facepalm: :gaah:

Glad you made it out. :facepalm: No need to be snarky.

 

[Trident]

Thanks for the welcome! I keep scouring the local stuff hoping to find something useful but 99% of it is just cruel speculation by outsiders. It seems as though those who are close to the case are keeping things pretty locked down. Initially some of the family members were responding or offering snippets of info but I haven't seen anything from them in quite some time. It doesn't even seem like friends or friends of friends or anyone else who would have any insider info are talking about it, at least on social media.

The issue that is stuck in my head is the "EMT" bag referenced during the interview. They brought it up in the context of rumors circulating on social media but I hadn't seen anything about it before and the only reference to it now is trying to figure out what they meant in the interview. I went back and watched the interview and the person off camera brought it up twice, the second time saying something along the lines of "we really need to address that," but ultimately, it was never directly addressed.

I've read the theories here about the bag but it just doesn't make sense still. Some speculate that as a health care professional, mom had a use for it. I'm an RN with ER experience. I have put together a pretty badass first aid kid but I call it it that - a first aid kit. I understand more advanced options are out there that are more along the lines of what might be referred to as an "EMT" bag but the people I know who have them have first responder experience or are hardcore outdoorsman who have participated in some specialized training.

The family does not appear to be the type to have what I would call an EMT bag. It could be an issue of nomenclature but I just want to know a little bit more about it, especially since the off-camera person seemed to think it was important!!

Is it POSSIBLE the EMT bag belonged to the "friend" of Gr. Grandpa? Was Gr Grandpa in somewhat bad health; is it possible the friend was a health worker? I believe that was said somewhere in the first few threads that Gr Grandpa had some health concerns. Could the EMT bag have come up missing/empty?

Just speculation on my part, no facts.

 

[4senthia]

Deorr's dad said it was definitely not him w/the child any where near the time the clerk said she spotted the black truck/bawling blonde toddler.
This is a transcript from the parents' one video interview:

Reporter: Is there any rumors that you've seen or anything you want to clear up, Jessica?

JM: I just . . . Somebody at the store, um, in Leadore, said, it was one of the ladies that had worked at the store said that they saw, um, a gentleman and a younger blonde boy matching our description of our son, really filthy, buying candy for him and he was just bawling, in a black truck. That is the only . . .

DK: Here's the problem.

JM: . . . other . . .

DK: My pickup truck's black.

JM: [indicating DK] He drives a black truck.

DK: As a family we went down to get some, to get a few things.

Reporter: So it could have been you?

JM: Earlier, it was earlier that day.

DK: It was me, but it, but they claim it was at 6:00 that evening and I, we, we still were with Search and Rescue until, what [turning to JM] a quarter till four?
~~LINK to video~~
http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/07/uncut-entire-interview-with-parents-of-deorr-kunz/
jmho

 

[SleuthMom]

The only "info" I have is from links posted earlier, such as the timeline and the mom's 911 call.
She said they arrived @the campsite at 1pm. And placed call to 911 @approx 2:30.
That's only one and a half hours. Am I wrong in thinking that at first it was posted that they searched for an hour?
Now that we've been corrected on that, it seems to have been a search of about 20 mins.
Also add in the new confirmed info of more than one vehicle @the site.

>Can't remember who just posted, but do we have any proof that the store had cameras? I'd really like to know because that would settle the strange difference in clerk's version of spotting the (her words) "filthy bawling" toddler w/the man in the black truck.<
Still holding out for a live Deorr.
jmho

So basically the just reached and Deorr went missing without a trace.