ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #20

[bluesneakers]

From square dancing, someone calls the tune and tells everyone what steps to do..

Source?

 

[bluesneakers]

ok a few stupid (probably already covered a gazillion times) questions:

- how could the dogs NOT hit on anything when clearly DK's truck was their normal method of transportation. alive, deceased, or completely absent, that's where his blankie was and that's most likely where normally his scent was present, way prior to the "camping trip". if the dogs didn't hit on THAT (and i too remember someone saying "no trace of him) well what's going on here?

- the "camping trip", as described by SB, puts IR in his car, GGPA in his trailer, and the K's in the bed of the pickup. who goes camping with a toddler to sleep in the bed of a pickup (not judging, asking)? was there a tent??? if not, IMO the K's never planned on "camping" and were there for another reason...

- how hard is it to remember one little blondie in one of the smallest continental U.S. towns? the store clerk obviously didn't see him. RC, well i don't know. maybe one doesn't take note of these things but...if you're in the business of transient (fisherman, hunter, off-roader) clients, normally the proprietor does take note. IMO the reporter that interviewed her was told to edit out any reference to the child. that, or, this is the worst reporting on the planet.

my guess on the last point is the former. any thoughts on the rest???

I assumed they had a cap/camper/shell on the truck and slept in there.

http://www.azcampershells.com/images/SuperSport_08GMC.jpg

 

[haven71]

The thing is... There was no hit from the dogs that DeOrr was ever there. I'm really taking that in to account now. Now that we've given the parents every benefit of doubt.

True, dat! In the very beginning I suspected he was never at the campground. But SB has been pretty adamant that he was so there are more scenarios than him never being there, so I can't completely discount it. Does seem like the dogs should've picked up the scent though...

 

[kammiemc]

The thing is... There was no hit from the dogs that DeOrr was ever there. I'm really taking that in to account now. Now that we've given the parents every benefit of doubt.

The thing that is murky to me is whether anyone has ever clarified that the cadaver dogs have not picked up a hit anywhere on anything. I have heard Klein clarify that it was the scent dogs, not cadaver dogs that were thrown off by the ashes. And the scent dogs weren't distracted by all the people. Unless I am forgetting something, it seems like the cadaver dogs have been left out of the conversation. Dunno if that is irrelevant or because it's something that LE/Klein have not wanted to share. Klein said he refused to talk at all about dogs hitting on the vehicles. Seemed like it was important to him to not disclose whatever info there was.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[white rabbit]

i agree, teatime, but it's against TOS to say that before parent(s) are named suspects.

and in most cases they're not. so IMO i'm hopeful that at least, for once, we get some justice here.

again, not judging...bluesneakers, if you were going on a camping trip with a two year old would that be your cot of choice? ggpa has a trailer. <modsnip>

maybe it's me. again i've slept in a pup tent on the forest floor (as a toddler). not sure a flatbed is the way to go?

whatever. to each his own. JMO but they never planned on camping that weekend, at least not with their son.

 

[Aeronomy]

Was that ever confirmed? I thought SB had been consistently vague about exactly what the dogs found.

He wasn't vague. He said, in so many words, the dogs showed interest once or twice, but it didn't pan out. Whatever got their attention was not relevant to finding DeOrr.

Keep in mind the difference between SB's conversational tone, and Klein's rapid-fire posting style. Lol

Yes, and I think it was even clearer in the press release that the Sheriff's Department sent out after a week and a half of their massive search efforts.

"Numerous resources, including helicopters with FLIR, diver’s, side scan sonar, scent dogs, cadaver dogs, horses, atv’s, and over 300 people, were used to grid and search the reservoir, the creek, and the hillsides, with absolutely no sign of the victim." https://www.facebook.com/LemhiCountySheriffsOffice/posts/884467051627459

 

[gliving]

ok a few stupid (probably already covered a gazillion times) questions:

- how could the dogs NOT hit on anything when clearly DK's truck was their normal method of transportation. alive, deceased, or completely absent, that's where his blankie was and that's most likely where normally his scent was present, way prior to the "camping trip". if the dogs didn't hit on THAT (and i too remember someone saying "no trace of him) well what's going on here?


my guess on the last point is the former. any thoughts on the rest???

I'll take on this one. Yep, the dogs probably hit on the truck, as SB said the dogs showed interest a couple of times. I'd gather they showed interest in the family truck. But as SB says, it didn't pan out. The dogs didn't track any scent at the camp site. One can picture the scene. Dog handlers take dogs to truck and they bark and wag, 'saying' yes Handler, I smell him here. Then Handler says go find him. The dogs take off, run around sniffing, and come back. Sorry Handler, we can't find him. We got nothing Handler. :blushing: We've seen the videos of the dogs searching.

SB said no trace of Deorr has ever been found. It's like he was never there.

 

[bluesneakers]

again, not judging...bluesneakers, if you were going on a camping trip with a two year old would that be your cot of choice? ggpa has a trailer. SB specifically said that GGPA had the trailer, <modsnip> and the K's had the pickup.

Yes, I've done it. You put an air mattress and/or some pads and it's softer than what you'd get on a tent floor. It's also good because a kid can't escape from the back of a truck the way they can from a tent. And it has the added bonus of not needing to be pitched or taken down.

I don't know what GGP's camper looks like but it's possible he didn't want to sleep in it with two other people and a 2yo. He might have needed it for his comfort or in order to have his oxygen hooked up.

Anyway, I don't take it as judging if your experiences are different, but it can be done and could be someone's first choice.

 

[Midge Montana]

I think SB said that dad, mom and baby slept in GGP's vehicle.

 

[haven71]

If we knew for sure whether or not he was at the campground, well, we'd have a lot more to go on (or at least a little--gah).

I want to know if the camping trip was planned in advance or not. Did GGP really plan the campout? How far in advance? Supposedly he chose the place and had been there many times before. If this were true, it's not a stretch to believe an accident happened at the campsite (although the failure of the tracking dogs suggests otherwise).

On the other hand (suppose the RUMOR of Deorr Sr calling into work sick) is true. This would suggest an urgent need to get to the campground. Perhaps because Deorr was already deceased and they had to get out of dodge before family and/or friends noticed Deorr was not with them?

 

[white rabbit]

thanks bessie - "whatever got their attention was not relevant to finding deorr".

well that says it all. IMO. but again, even if deorr was never at the campground, he and his scent were most definitely in the truck at some point in his life which professional SAR or cadaver dogs would have picked up on.

did they bleach the truck or something? i can't stand dog discussions (because i truly don't understand them) but this is ridiculous. someone has to answer whether or not the child was ever up there to begin with. i have to say yes otherwise they never would've wasted the time and energy of these poor dogs. or would they...?

 

[Mickshawn]

True, dat! In the very beginning I suspected he was never at the campground. But SB has been pretty adamant that he was so there are more scenarios than him never being there, so I can't completely discount it. Does seem like the dogs should've picked up the scent though...

I thought SB was 99% sure he was there.....But that was waaaay long ago...What does he think NOW??

 

[gliving]

i agree, teatime, but it's against TOS to say that before parent(s) are named suspects.

and in most cases they're not. so IMO i'm hopeful that at least, for once, we get some justice here.

again, not judging...bluesneakers, if you were going on a camping trip with a two year old would that be your cot of choice? ggpa has a trailer. SB specifically said that GGPA had the trailer, <modsnip> and the K's had the pickup.

maybe it's me. again i've slept in a pup tent on the forest floor (as a toddler). not sure a flatbed is the way to go?

whatever. to each his own. JMO but they never planned on camping that weekend, at least not with their son.

GGP drove a Suburban SUV pulling his camper. IR rode with him. JM and VDK drove his pick up truck. JM, VDK and Deorr slept in the back of the Suburban. IR slept in a tent. Or so SB has said.

I wouldn't sleep in a tent only because I'm scared of bears.

 

[Lilibet]

i agree, teatime, but it's against TOS to say that before parent(s) are named suspects.

and in most cases they're not. so IMO i'm hopeful that at least, for once, we get some justice here.

again, not judging...bluesneakers, if you were going on a camping trip with a two year old would that be your cot of choice? ggpa has a trailer. SB specifically said that GGPA had the trailer, <modsnip>, and the K's had the pickup.

maybe it's me. again i've slept in a pup tent on the forest floor (as a toddler). not sure a flatbed is the way to go?

whatever. to each his own. JMO but they never planned on camping that weekend, at least not with their son.

BBM

The parents have been named suspects so that's why there is speculation. Or am I misunderstanding your point.

Correcting your statement that IR had his truck before it gets believed: IR rode with GGP and slept in a tent. He didn't have a truck. There were just two vehicles and a trailer. IIRC, JM and VDK slept in the back of GGP's Suburban, not in the back of their pickup.

SB said that the food they had did not arouse suspicion about whether the camping trip was legit.

I'm not able to look for links right now, but I'm quite sure about these points.

 

[Aunt_Tulip]

SB: You know one was in a camp trailer, one was in a tent, and the family was in the back of a motor vehicle, so&#8230;You know I&#8217;ve seen people camp like that, so that didn&#8217;t distress me. Food &#8211; they had food. They tried to buy other food, and then they went to the store the next morning, so yeah, I think &#8230;I don&#8217;t see any problem with that.

He doesn't say which motor vehicle.

 

[Aeronomy]

BBM

SB said that the food they had did not arouse suspicion about whether the camping trip was legit.

I forgot about that. Of course, food or any gear could have been purchased Saturday before the 911 call.

I also want to revisit something I may have missed over the threads: DeOrr's boots. Why were they 2 (I think) sizes too large? Were these boots purchased on their way to the campground or did he have them for some time?

 

[gliving]

I thought SB was 99% sure he was there.....But that was waaaay long ago...What does he think NOW??

He said the parents were solid too. We now know that's not the case.

It's not a black and white situation for Bowerman where he says something and it becomes law. It's very fluid, changing course as things become evident.

 

[haven71]

iMO, if this campout was truly planned to cover up the demise of Deorr, then it would be common sense (I'd hope) that tracking dogs would search the area. At the very least, if he was never there and this was a cover-up, the parents could've dragged some of his belongs around various areas of the campsite. The dogs would've picked up on that presumably. That makes me think maybe he was alive there (or, because if they killed them, they sure were sloppy about it. Seems like they'd do more to ensure their innocence than lying to LE and hoping for the best.

But again, the dogs are infallible. But, again, I'm pretty confident that with that many dogs used, that AT LEAST ONE would've picked up on his scent.

I'd love to have some answers, but these boards aren't about us of course. As frustrated as we are, we have to be patient because there are a million things LE knows about the investigation that is not being shared with the public. LE needs to make sure to cross all their T's and dot their I's so that justice will be served.

 

[Aeronomy]

Source?

I didn't know quite what it meant either, but here's a link that explains what I think pappa rob was referring to with ggpa calling the tune and telling everyone what steps to do:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Square_dance "In most American forms of square dance, the dancers are prompted or cued through a sequence of steps (square dance choreography) by a caller to the beat (and, in some traditions, the phrasing) of music. The caller may be one of the dancers or musicians, but nowadays is more likely to be on stage, giving full attention to directing the dancers."

 

[pappa rob]

Source?

http://www.theclassictoons.com/8/hillbilly-hare/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traditional_square_dance
Make important decisions, exercise authority, as in Nancy said that it's her turn to call the tune. The full term is Who pays the piper calls the tune, meaning whoever bears the cost of an enterprise should have authority over it. [Late 1800s ]
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/call--the--tune
To tell the truth the way I heard it as a child I don't se anyplace yet, I'll keep looking if you want..