ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #20

[Blue Skies]

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[Rayemonde]

I forgot about that. Of course, food or any gear could have been purchased Saturday before the 911 call.

I also want to revisit something I may have missed over the threads: DeOrr's boots. Why were they 2 (I think) sizes too large? Were these boots purchased on their way to the campground or did he have them for some time?

JMO but I don't think these hugely oversized boots ever even existed.

 

[DatelineFan]

JMO but I don't think these hugely oversized boots ever even existed.

Good point. UGH!!! WHAT DID EXIST??

this case is frustrating and so sad.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

When I was younger, my family would take impulsive camping trips. "The weather is gorgeous, Dad's had a really stressful day at work, let's load the camper and get out of here for a couple of days." Mostly that meant grabbing stuff out of the deep freeze to make supper from, and cereal for breakfast, but we sometimes stopped for food on the way. And I'm sure there was one time where we didn't take anything and bought groceries on the second day. So none of that sounds improbable to me on the face of it.

It's okay to do that spontaneous, no question here. BUT you were a family with mother/father/children, I think. You were not: 1 elderly half-ill man, 2 parents with toddler, 1 stranger (to 3 of the others, friend only to 1). IF then comes to addition of this odd constellation a parent who perhaps "called in sick" for one day, I would imagine: it wasn't an impulsive weekend trip because of gorgeous weather but an urgent need to go to a deserted camping ground far away from home.

 

[Jamaica Me Crazy]

I'm getting dizzy from the same questions/same answers merry-go-round.

 

[Rayemonde]

It's okay to do that spontaneous, no question here. BUT you were a family with mother/father/children, I think. You were not: 1 elderly half-ill man, 2 parents with toddler, 1 stranger (to 3 of the others, friend only to 1). IF then comes to addition of this odd constellation a parent who perhaps "called in sick" for one day, I would imagine: it wasn't an impulsive weekend trip because of gorgeous weather but an urgent need to go to a deserted camping ground far away from home.

But why would it be urgent to go to a deserted camping ground far away from home? Even if DeOrr had already died, why not just leave him somewhere far from home, and then say he disappeared from the home? Why complicate everything with a camping trip...

 

[DatelineFan]

But why would it be urgent to go to a deserted camping ground far away from home? Even if DeOrr had already died, why not just leave him somewhere far from home, and then say he disappeared from the home? Why complicate everything with a camping trip...

Exactly. This is why I'm with SB; 99% sure he was at the campsite alive, at some point. But after that, what on earth happened to sweet little Deorr?

 

[Deleted member 102539]

But why would it be urgent to go to a deserted camping ground far away from home? Even if DeOrr had already died, why not just leave him somewhere far from home, and then say he disappeared from the home? Why complicate everything with a camping trip...

Maybe because "kidnapping" (parent's apprehension early on) sounds more plausible, if happened near a deserted camping ground far away from home? Maybe the parents thought, the investigation would focus on the camp ground and environment and NOT on their home and home town?

 

[persimmon]

I wonder why Vernal isn't using his new legal representation to shush up Vilt or Klein. It would seem that someone perceived to be an insider to the case who is now publicly declaring the parents likely responsible for their child's death would be my first loud and clear target in defending myself, if I were an innocent parent being accused. In addition to refocusing the investigation on finding the missing child and reiterating a commitment to cooperation with law enforcement and the investigation. Yet this isn't happening. I wonder what that lawyer is up to, since there does not seem to be any legal action publicly ​going on at the moment.

My thought is VDK does not have the money to try to silence his critics. There was the Attorney's public statement that tried to quash the growing suspicion but I doubt he will be very active at this stage, if ever.

However, there's a possibility he's communicating with LE to get a feel for their case. Before charges are filed is the time to come clean. Even with no body, jurors are going to sympathize with the child.
All jmo and thoughts

 

[TheTruthWillOut]

I remember we discussed the baby Rainn case and compared it to DeOrr's case... She apparently got out of the house when her grandparents were watching her, and was found alive 2 days later and about a mile away. Some people used her as an example that search teams with dogs and helicopters can miss toddlers who wander off, and that the public are too quick to suspect foul play. Well, it looks like there may have been foul play involved in her case after all.

http://fox8.com/2016/02/05/trumbull-county-sheriff-shares-new-details-in-the-rainn-peterson-case/

I would say I'm surprised but I'm not...As soon as she was (thankfully) found I decided to get the fudge out of rog while I had a bit of hair left...

GGP drove a Suburban SUV pulling his camper. IR rode with him. JM and VDK drove his pick up truck. JM, VDK and Deorr slept in the back of the Suburban. IR slept in a tent. Or so SB has said.

I wouldn't sleep in a tent only because I'm scared of bears.

I found this early quote interesting re: Vehicles.

An aunt posts: "Little man is missing and has possibly been abducted. Vehicles to look out for is older light blue GMC/Chevy late 80s early 90s, also possibly a black truck - unknown model."

http://legacy.ktvb.com/story/news/l...-year-old-continues-in-lemhi-county/30058523/

 

[Lots2Learn]

I remember reading somewhere that the camping trip was planned for a week (now I can't remember where I read that)
A week isn't really well planned but not exactly impromptu either

Now for more coffee and to see if I can find a link for that


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[CoverMeCagney]

I remember reading somewhere that the camping trip was planned for a week (now I can't remember where I read that)
A week isn't really well planned but not exactly impromptu either

Now for more coffee and to see if I can find a link for that

There were two posts made on social media (by TC I think) and so to be considered rumour of course. One was that the trip had been planned and that other family were due to join them there over the weekend. The other was that Jessica's mum asked her and VDK to go camping, as Grandpa and Isaac (who had been there before) were going and she wanted someone to keep an eye on Grandpa.

 

[MBK]

If Vernal Deorr called into work sick, WHEN did he call? (8 am with lil Deorr heard in the background????)

 

[MBK]

As far as Vernal Deorr's spurious "sick day", I'll bet that with his job, if you don't work, you don't get paid. And I'll also wager that finances were tight. They were most likely living hand to mouth. So . . . .

 

[kimi_SFC]

Oh yeah. Finally registered. I've been lurking for quite some time and have followed this case on other sites also. I would like to go bullet point if I may, since I have lots of thoughts.

>I have no idea what happened, I am as sure as any keyboard warrior can be that the parents do though.
>Everyone expecting LE to be forthcoming are mistaken. They have nothing to gain and all to loose, they have to go to court.
Of course the Sheriff is going to soft sell everything and the PI is going to be more bold.
>I know the PI said no drugs involved but to answer a question I've seen a million times; what would make 4 adults all agree to a cover-up? A meth lab. Those things are very mobile, smelly, and super dangerous. Hypothetically a lab could have been set up and an accident occurred. If everyone was involved they would all sure as hell keep quiet since they would all be charged with a crime if a baby died because of an accident.
>Assuming Klien is correct and no drugs were involved I have to assume as others have that the 2 POI's were mislead. Let's be honest fooling an ancient man and IR doesn't seem too difficult.
>I have taken a poly and it suuuucks. In my case they made very sure I was comfortably with the questions and I had them re-word a couple of them. They also went through all 10 question 5 times so it's not like one run through and you are done. Based on my experience there is no way there was some kind of semantics issue or misunderstanding. There are only so many ways they can ask about your missing kid. FYI mine was also about a kidnapped kid as my son was kidnapped.

Thank you for coming out of lurkdom, and for sharing with us, The Apparition!!!

:grouphug:

I look forward to hearing more from you!

:welcome4:





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[TeaTime]

I think we can safely assume that GP Kunz saw baby DeOrr on Thursday at some point since they lived together. Therefore, it is very, very unlikely that the baby was dead and the trip was part of a larger scheme to hide his body and have 2 challenged witnesses for back up.

I was being sarcastic when I stated that 'the baby could have been dead a week before the trip for all we know', it was not meant to start speculation. Sorry.

 

[Midge Montana]

Welcome Appirition!
Great first post and I'm looking forward to hearing more from you with your unique viewpoint.
I'm sorry to read your child was kidnapped. Every parent's nightmare. I hope it was resolved well.

 

[ClaireNC]

I think we can safely assume that GP Kunz saw baby DeOrr on Thursday at some point since they lived together. Therefore, it is very, very unlikely that the baby was dead and the trip was part of a larger scheme to hide his body and have 2 challenged witnesses for back up.

I was being sarcastic when I stated that 'the baby could have been dead a week before the trip for all we know', it was not meant to start speculation. Sorry.

We don't know where VDK and JM were living when baby Deorr went missing. There are rumors that they had moved out of the paternal grandparents' house late spring/early summer last year. I really wish somebody would clear up when anybody saw him prior to the camping trip.

 

[Onebest]

Welcome Apparition, good first post and thank you for sharing your perspective. To say I am sorry your son was kidnapped isnt really enough to express how my heart goes out to you. I hope you have found the answers and support you need. Glad you are here.

 

[Onebest]

Here's one link.

http://www.ussartf.org/dogs_search_rescue.htm

You might also want to check out the SAR thread here on WS.
[h=1]K9 SAR Questions & Answers - Ask the Pros![/h]

Thanks for posting this Bessie. It is a good description of the types of SAR dogs. A side note, the term "scent dogs" is not used to describe search and rescue K9's (at least by handlers) and I think its caused a LOT of confusion. All search dogs find scent, they all have noses. Its what they are trained to find and how they do it that determines what you call them. For example AIR scent dogs work primarily from scent in the air. TRAILING dogs find scent primarily on the ground. CADAVER dogs search for the scent of human remains. I know you know this Bessie but there has been a lot of confusion.

Hope this post and your link helps folks understand.