ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #21

[kammiemc]

For now, let's all send our love and forgiveness out to the parents rather than our hate. Pray for them.

I'm sorry, but right now, I'm not feeling any love and forgiveness for the parents.....If they hurt their sweet little boy and caused his disappearance, my heart just does not go out to them. If they concocted a story which involved so many searchers and people raising money and resources and equipment, etc. etc.....my heart does not go out to them....Where my heart goes is to this sweet innocent little child.[/QUOTE]

I have great respect for TeaTime and have noticed that she's not afraid to evolve her thinking with more info. But on this one, I gotta say no way, no how I am loving and forgiving the parents. That is a very personal (even spiritual) action that every person has decide for themselves or with their clergy or whatever.

It's clear that DK and JM did live with gpa at one time. I would just do some fact checking about whether they had moved out prior to the camping trip.


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[DatelineFan]

Definitely not feeling one bit of grace for those two nasty beings! Certainly no love. Not one tiny bit. I don't feel bad about it, either.


I'm here for Deorr! He has my love.

 

[J4cknsal1y]

I just had another thought about parents covering for each other... Someone pointed out earlier in the thread that JM had put a "life event" on fb for the day she met Vernal, and had written that it was the best day of her life... The births of her children didn't get any such special mention on fb (not publically, at least). If Vernal did something to DeOrr maybe she wouldn't want to lose him to prison, so she would cover for him. Maybe he was the most important thing in her life - more important than phoning an ambulance for her child, or giving him a decent funeral.

Disturbing theory, but poor baby Chance's 'monster' (can't bear to call her a mother) pretty much used that exact excuse for not getting Chance medical attention when her 'love' hurt that poor baby. She also posted things about how much she loved him all over her Facebook, some even very very soon after he (supposedly) killed their baby. Definitely possible that something similar is going through JM's 'brain'. Both seem pretty immature. And disgusting.
All in my opinion only.

 

[desert-blue]

I just had another thought about parents covering for each other... Someone pointed out earlier in the thread that JM had put a "life event" on fb for the day she met Vernal, and had written that it was the best day of her life... The births of her children didn't get any such special mention on fb (not publically, at least). If Vernal did something to DeOrr maybe she wouldn't want to lose him to prison, so she would cover for him. Maybe he was the most important thing in her life - more important than phoning an ambulance for her child, or giving him a decent funeral.

Did JM really meet DeOrr for the first time in 2004 (as per FB)? She would have been 14 ish, right? Long before her first marriage and other two children. Maybe FB has the year wrong?

 

[Little Ol Me]

GP Kunz told us that the baby was his nap buddy which is why (I think) we all assume that they lived and live together. Whether LE in IF searched the Kunz home before the parents returned is not certain. Actually, it has never been brought up but it is a great point to bring up. Thanks.

Unless the body is found and pre-death bone injuries such as skull fractures, knife cuts or gunshot wounds are identified, the COD will never be determined with any accuracy - it is too late for that. That ship has sailed. Even if the killer(s) tell(s) us how the baby died, we still will not know for 100% certainty - see e.g. Reuben Ebron's 'baby drowned in the bath tub story'. But, let us not dwell on the things we may never know.

Let us know this: we do not seek justice for a person, we seek justice as a means to maintain our notions of a civilized society. Nothing we do can ever undo what has been done and the dead do not need justice; society does. DeOrr has no hatred for his killers or any need for retribution. He doesn't need a hole in the ground with a headstone above to rest in peace, he is in eternal peace, joyous and his soul is in ecstasy. Besides, what better resting place than being one with nature in God's great wilderness can anyone ask for?

We may not obtain the justice we seek but we know where DeOrr's soul resides. This will sustain us all.

For now, let's all send our love and forgiveness out to the parents rather than our hate. Pray for them.

I thanked your post as I agree 100% with the bolded portion.
Not necessarily relating to Deorr, just in general. I'm not 100% positive Deorr is deceased, (although I surmise he is).

As to his parents, I have no hate for them. I do pray for them, and for Deorr.
If they are involved in Deorr's disappearance, it's not for me to forgive them.

 

[ReadySet]

SBM

Unless the body is found and pre-death bone injuries such as skull fractures, knife cuts or gunshot wounds are identified, the COD will never be determined with any accuracy - it is too late for that. That ship has sailed. Even if the killer(s) tell(s) us how the baby died, we still will not know for 100% certainty - see e.g. Reuben Ebron's 'baby drowned in the bath tub story'. But, let us not dwell on the things we may never know.

Let us know this: we do not seek justice for a person, we seek justice as a means to maintain our notions of a civilized society. Nothing we do can ever undo what has been done and the dead do not need justice; society does. DeOrr has no hatred for his killers or any need for retribution. He doesn't need a hole in the ground with a headstone above to rest in peace, he is in eternal peace, joyous and his soul is in ecstasy. Besides, what better resting place than being one with nature in God's great wilderness can anyone ask for?

We may not obtain the justice we seek but we know where DeOrr's soul resides. This will sustain us all.

For now, let's all send our love and forgiveness out to the parents rather than our hate. Pray for them.

Those are interesting ideas.

As for me, if I ever go missing, I hope someone will search for me. If I am presumed dead, I want people to seek justice for me. Please don't leave me out in the beautiful wilderness, bring me home to my loved ones. If my family members are suspected in my death, don't give them a pass. Their life would never be right if they didn't pay the consequences of their actions.
I believe that a murdered person can never truly "Rest in Peace" without justice, especially if their parents murdered them.

I'm not talking about you, TeaTime, when I state the following, and I'm not saying this is how little Deorr's family feels. Your post just made me think about my own ideas about how I imagine some people feel. I am talking about some family members and friends of some suspected murderers. I think their thinking sometimes may go along these lines:

"Oh no. Oh no. He's gone! No! No! But..at least he's at peace. We can't do anything more for him. He can't be hurt anymore. He's a little baby angel now, and he'll always be happy, so maybe it was for the best. What good can it do to put his family members in prison? It won't help him. And they're already suffering, and will suffer for the rest of their lives. Besides, they're family! It won't do any good for them to be in prison. It won't bring him back. So I'll just take the law into my own hands, I won't tell, I'll deny justice, he's gone, I can't help him, but I can help them. He's dead, they're still alive, life is for the living".

JMO

 

[TeaTime]

I hope you will all understand that with love and forgiveness comes contrition, penance and redemption. Penance is or can be, punishment. But I am sure every parent knows that you can punish someone without hating them.

We have a saying down here in the beautiful South that maybe sums it up 'you will catch more flies with honey than with vinegar'.

 

[KatieLiz]

I'm not talking about you, TeaTime, when I state the following, and I'm not saying this is how little Deorr's family feels. Your post just made me think about my own ideas about how I imagine some people feel. I am talking about some family members and friends of some suspected murderers. I think their thinking sometimes may go along these lines:

"Oh no. Oh no. He's gone! No! No! But..at least he's at peace. We can't do anything more for him. He can't be hurt anymore. He's a little baby angel now, and he'll always be happy, so maybe it was for the best. What good can it do to put his family members in prison? It won't help him. And they're already suffering, and will suffer for the rest of their lives. Besides, they're family! It won't do any good for them to be in prison. It won't bring him back. So I'll just take the law into my own hands, I won't tell, I'll deny justice, he's gone, I can't help him, but I can help them. He's dead, they're still alive, life is for the living".

JMO

This is interesting to me. I think those closest to a suspect really don't want to see their guilt. They will believe anything the suspect has to say because they "know them" and know they couldn't be capable or murder.

I speak from experience. A friend of mine is currently up on first degree murder charges awaiting trial. And I DO NOT believe it! Pure shock! No way (in my mind) she is capable of that. BUT.... Why is she charged with first degree murder then? She is clearly involved, but to what degree her involvement was is still up for debate. Even if a guilty verdict is delivered, I'm not sure I will believe it. Because I KNOW her.... But then again, do we ever truly know anyone? I should know better, from coming here, but I believe my friend. I view her as a victim in the situation. But I don't know the facts yet, only her side.

I know it's unrelated, but I think this would be exactly how DK and JM's families would feel. Maybe DK loses his temper at home, but is very good at pretending to be caring and loving in public? Maybe they both dote on little Deorr when family is around, but neglect him when they are alone? So many questions and so few answers. 21 threads of confusion and frustration

 

[AbbeyBabbey]

GP Kunz told us that the baby was his nap buddy which is why (I think) we all assume that they lived and live together. Whether LE in IF searched the Kunz home before the parents returned is not certain. Actually, it has never been brought up but it is a great point to bring up. Thanks.

Unless the body is found and pre-death bone injuries such as skull fractures, knife cuts or gunshot wounds are identified, the COD will never be determined with any accuracy - it is too late for that. That ship has sailed. Even if the killer(s) tell(s) us how the baby died, we still will not know for 100% certainty - see e.g. Reuben Ebron's 'baby drowned in the bath tub story'. But, let us not dwell on the things we may never know.

Let us know this: we do not seek justice for a person, we seek justice as a means to maintain our notions of a civilized society. Nothing we do can ever undo what has been done and the dead do not need justice; society does. DeOrr has no hatred for his killers or any need for retribution. He doesn't need a hole in the ground with a headstone above to rest in peace, he is in eternal peace, joyous and his soul is in ecstasy. Besides, what better resting place than being one with nature in God's great wilderness can anyone ask for?

We may not obtain the justice we seek but we know where DeOrr's soul resides. This will sustain us all.

For now, let's all send our love and forgiveness out to the parents rather than our hate. Pray for them.

I am not religious in any way but this has got to be the best post (IMO) across all 21 threads and all of those to come.

<modsnip> Thank you for *trying* to remind them although I think it is all for naught for some. Vengeance (that is not theirs to impose) appears to be the driving force for some. When I read these posts, my immediate thought is, "WHAT IS LIL MAN THINKING AND HOW SAD IS HE IF HIS PARENTS ARE INNOCENT?" (which is what I believe until there is proof beyond ANY doubt that they are not and we do not have ANY proof or even ANY indication that they are guilty of anything).

How very sad my soul is that these precious parents, their beautiful son and his life/memory are defiled in this manner!!!

MOO

 

[gliving]

He doesn't need a hole in the ground with a headstone above to rest in peace, he is in eternal peace, joyous and his soul is in ecstasy.

Bold and snipped by me

Assuming Deorr Jay Kunz is dead, there's a good chance he is in a hole in the ground. Buried there by his parents to hide some kind of death. There is nothing peaceful, joyous or otherwise redeeming about his final resting place. If he is laying there, alone on the mountain as officials suppose, it's because he was hidden there.

 

[TeaTime]

gliving, with all due respect and I do respect your opinion, graveyards and cemeteries are not peaceful, joyous or redeeming either.

I just can not hate these parents, they are not evil. Uneducated, young and clueless but not evil. I let Klein and his crazy twisted words make me think these 2 had murdered this baby on purpose. Then I became rational and considered the source and his 'damning' non evidence and go back to square one, the campsite and the exploring story, which is the ONLY one we have heard. Everything else is speculation and opinion based on pseudo science - the epitome of unreliable evidence. No one should be persecuted on rumor, gossip, speculative opinion or psuedo-science.

JMHO, I am who I am.

 

[katydid23]

gliving, with all due respect and I do respect your opinion, graveyards and cemeteries are not peaceful, joyous or redeeming either.

I just can not hate these parents, they are not evil. Uneducated, young and clueless but not evil. I let Klein and his crazy twisted words make me think these 2 had murdered this baby on purpose. Then I became rational and considered the source and his 'damning' non evidence and go back to square one, the campsite and the exploring story, which is the ONLY one we have heard. Everything else is speculation and opinion based on pseudo science - the epitome of unreliable evidence. No one should be persecuted on rumor, gossip, speculative opinion or psuedo-science.

JMHO, I am who I am.

Why is the Sheriff calling their stories and credibility into question?

 

[jnblsm]

Bold and snipped by me

Assuming Deorr Jay Kunz is dead, there's a good chance he is in a hole in the ground. Buried there by his parents to hide some kind of death. There is nothing peaceful, joyous or otherwise redeeming about his final resting place. If he is laying there, alone on the mountain as officials suppose, it's because he was hidden there.

One thing that is awesome about this forum is that we come up with different ideas, and we all get a chance to expound, foster, etc., without being chastised about those opinions.
I fear, imo, as if you might feel like you are being, or might feel as if you are being chastised for your opinion. Please know that that isn't the case.
I think it's great that you are wanting to pray for the parents! Indeed, if it comes out that they had nothing to do with the possible demise of our baby DeOrr, those that have stated they can't help but hate the parents will definitely "eat crow" and admit they're wrong. Myself included.
Please understand that nobody really wants to accuse either JM or VDK if there isn't proof. That's why this thread exists.
I guess my point is that we all have our opinions: and we really are all on the same side. Don't feel like you should stop posting your beliefs, at all! But understand that it's extremely hard for some to jump on the bandwagon where we need to pray with the parents to have comfort.
We, as a team, will be the first to back JM and VDK if the proof comes out that they had nothing to do with DeOrr being gone.
It's perfectly okay for any of us to have our own opinions.[emoji12]

gliving, with all due respect and I do respect your opinion, graveyards and cemeteries are not peaceful, joyous or redeeming either.

I just can not hate these parents, they are not evil. Uneducated, young and clueless but not evil. I let Klein and his crazy twisted words make me think these 2 had murdered this baby on purpose. Then I became rational and considered the source and his 'damning' non evidence and go back to square one, the campsite and the exploring story, which is the ONLY one we have heard. Everything else is speculation and opinion based on pseudo science - the epitome of unreliable evidence. No one should be persecuted on rumor, gossip, speculative opinion or psuedo-science.

JMHO, I am who I am.

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[Tr.]

No one should be persecuted on rumor, gossip, speculative opinion or pseudo-science.

I agree and I respect your position to defend the parents, however, Deorr is missing and people here (and elsewhere) are on the hunt to
locate him because they are (we are) troubled by that fact.

The problem here is that we're all looking for a needle in a haystack, as is all-to-often the case with the missing.
So, figuring out whether the poi's' are telling the truth is extremely important to the search and lends direction as to where and how to allocate scarce resources.
For example; searching the U.S. vs Canada, Idaho Falls vs Le adore, around the campsite vs between the campsite and town, or in the ground vs in the water vs in a tree (if a mountain lion were involved).

In this case the "truth" as the parents tell it, is presenting us with more questions than answers. But i believe that people here on WS are, for the most part, pretty good at discerning facts from fiction based on their own intellect and experience.

And yes, there are those who sometimes seem to be here for the "hate" factor and sometimes they do seem overly vengeful.
And there are also those who are hell-bent on conspiracy theories even after being presented with facts to the contrary.
But in some cases, finding the truth (and ultimately the missing individual) is a journey down some very dark roads.
Personally, I admire those folks willing to take that walk and lend their insight in hopes of finding resolution.

You say that these parents are not evil and I would like to believe that too.
But after 50 years and two wars I still don't have a Hinky Meter like others here do and I struggle with that.
I just know that I would rather face evil head on than politely turn away and fall prey to it's whims...if you know what i mean.

Thanks for helping search.

 

[persimmon]

gliving, with all due respect and I do respect your opinion, graveyards and cemeteries are not peaceful, joyous or redeeming either.

I just can not hate these parents, they are not evil. Uneducated, young and clueless but not evil. I let Klein and his crazy twisted words make me think these 2 had murdered this baby on purpose. Then I became rational and considered the source and his 'damning' non evidence and go back to square one, the campsite and the exploring story, which is the ONLY one we have heard. Everything else is speculation and opinion based on pseudo science - the epitome of unreliable evidence. No one should be persecuted on rumor, gossip, speculative opinion or psuedo-science.

JMHO, I am who I am.

I don't put a great deal of stock in what Klein says, which pared down to actual statements is very little. The use of such language as "that goes to evidence ..prosecutorial.
.and no comment" enables him to assume an all knowing position and direct guilt without presenting a shred of evidence to support it. I have taken his statements with a grain of salt for now. However, he's made such grand claims I am assuming evidence will be forthcoming. That said, my feelings regarding the parents' guilt stem from SBs public statements and instinct. However, instinct alone would not be enough.

Personally, I think we all wish they were innocent or at the very worst let their parent guard down just a few minutes too long and DeOrr wandered off to his unfortunate demise. Rationally, this makes little sense though. Sure, we can research and turn up examples where a child simply disappeared off the face of the Earth and searches failed to locate them etc....all without any foul play involved. Those cases are rare and so LE and people who post here dont rely on them when theorizing possibilities. There always exist that slim possibility that all the normal things somehow didnt occur and DeOrr left absolutely no trace and repeated searches failed to locate him..etc, but that would be very unlikely. Had he really wandered off, he would likely have been found since the timeline we have been given only gave his little, wobbly, legs with shoes too large for his feet about 10-15 minutes time to get lost. There was still daylight, warm weather, and NO other people to cause him harm. Yet all of these skilled searches trained to notice what others wouldn't see, failed to turn up any sign he wandered through the area.

Jmo and I hope I learn I am wrong but signs seem to be pointing in the other direction. As for forgiveness, mine means nothing to them. If they are guilty, I am inclined to pray for their loved ones to find peace, the rest is not my business.
Jmo

 

[Rayemonde]

I don't put a great deal of stock in what Klein says, which pared down to actual statements is very little. The use of such language as "that goes to evidence ..prosecutorial.
.and no comment" enables him to assume an all knowing position and direct guilt without presenting a shred of evidence to support it. I have taken his statements with a grain of salt for now. However, he's made such grand claims I am assuming evidence will be forthcoming. That said, my feelings regarding the parents' guilt stem from SBs public statements and instinct. However, instinct alone would not be enough.

Personally, I think we all wish they were innocent or at the very worst let their parent guard down just a few minutes too long and DeOrr wandered off to his unfortunate demise. Rationally, this makes little sense though. Sure, we can research and turn up examples where a child simply disappeared off the face of the Earth and searches failed to locate them etc....all without any foul play involved. Those cases are rare and so LE and people who post here dont rely on them when theorizing possibilities. There always exist that slim possibility that all the normal things somehow didnt occur and DeOrr left absolutely no trace and repeated searches failed to locate him..etc, but that would be very unlikely. Had he really wandered off, he would likely have been found since the timeline we have been given only gave his little, wobbly, legs with shoes too large for his feet about 10-15 minutes time to get lost. There was still daylight, warm weather, and NO other people to cause him harm. Yet all of these skilled searches trained to notice what others wouldn't see, failed to turn up any sign he wandered through the area.

Jmo and I hope I learn I am wrong but signs seem to be pointing in the other direction. As for forgiveness, mine means nothing to them. If they are guilty, I am inclined to pray for their loved ones to find peace, the rest is not my business.
Jmo

Personally, I would probably still be giving the parents the benefit of the doubt if it weren't for their behaviour after DeOrr's disappearance... Sometimes searchers don't find kids, sometimes the FBI are wrong, often LE's instincts are wrong, often polygraphs are wrong, often PIs are wrong... It's possible the parents have just been really unlucky and all the experts around them have all come to the same wrong conclusion.

But add in to all that the behaviour of the parents since DeOrr disappeared, and it stretches my good faith too far so I can no longer give them the benefit of the doubt. Their obsession with SM, their refusal to get the word out about their son, the constant collection of donations without a word of where it's going (I'm talking about the online store and gfms, not the fundraising for Klein), the fact that complete strangers organised billboards because the parents never bothered, the constant lies... IMO they have never behaved as if their son is missing and they are searching for him. That's either because he wandered off and got lost and they're such negligent parents that they don't really care and have just moved on with their lives, or it's because they know where he is. JMO.

 

[Tr.]

Here's what I just CANNOT get past, you guys. In the very first interview he and Jessica gave to Nate, DeOrr (Vernal) says:

"Uh, we searched for - after about twenty minutes in a dead panic, not knowing where he was in such a small area, and not knowing, never being there, I knew I was in trouble."

I can't ignore his choice of words. What in God's name did you do, Vernal, to KNOW that you were in trouble??? And what do you know about it, Jessica? For the love of all things holy, come clean!!!

:tantrum:

Also the use of the word "replica" by VDK when referring to the blanket...???

You may also notice that when VDK says "we will find him no-matter what" his facial expression changes from relaxed to tense, upper body stiffens slightly, and his words are followed by a hard swallow indicative of fear.
At the exact same time JM does one of those things where you swing your head to get the hair out of your face...is she dismissing the thought of finding DK?

 

[persimmon]

Personally, I would probably still be giving the parents the benefit of the doubt if it weren't for their behaviour after DeOrr's disappearance... Sometimes searchers don't find kids, sometimes the FBI are wrong, often LE's instincts are wrong, often polygraphs are wrong, often PIs are wrong... It's possible the parents have just been really unlucky and all the experts around them have all come to the same wrong conclusion.

But add in to all that the behaviour of the parents since DeOrr disappeared, and it stretches my good faith too far so I can no longer give them the benefit of the doubt. Their obsession with SM, their refusal to get the word out about their son, the constant collection of donations without a word of where it's going (I'm talking about the online store and gfms, not the fundraising for Klein), the fact that complete strangers organised billboards because the parents never bothered, the constant lies... IMO they have never behaved as if their son is missing and they are searching for him. That's either because he wandered off and got lost and they're such negligent parents that they don't really care and have just moved on with their lives, or it's because they know where he is. JMO.

I agree and I've tried to put myself in their shoes but each time I do, I find nothing about their actions that sparks confidence or understanding. Their initial interview was bizarre and nothing seems to have changed. None of us would no how to act or what to do if faced with such tragic circumstances but the desparate need to find a missing child would override all else and sm would be irrelevant outside of its power to spread the word or connect positively with others who may be able to help. If there was ever a time to grow up, move outside your comfort zone and grow this would be that time. Transparency goes a long way, and there is nothing shameful about saying we are not able to work and search or we unfortunately do not have the funds for billboards so we are asking for any assistance we can get and we are grateful that friends and strangers are helping us at this time so we can focus our energy on finding our son. Their failure to be proactive, honest, and focused on the only thing that should matter hurts them more than all the SM haters combined. There are many resources out there if they genuinely sought the truth. There are organizations that put up rewards and disseminate money with accountability.

It's deeply sad that SBs statement was met with a collective, "we knew it!" instead of shock and surprise. However, they designed all of it.

 

[Tr.]

I don't put a great deal of stock in what Klein says, which pared down to actual statements is very little. The use of such language as "that goes to evidence ..prosecutorial.
.and no comment" enables him to assume an all knowing position and direct guilt without presenting a shred of evidence to support it. I have taken his statements with a grain of salt for now. However, he's made such grand claims I am assuming evidence will be forthcoming. That said, my feelings regarding the parents' guilt stem from SBs public statements and instinct. However, instinct alone would not be enough.

Personally, I think we all wish they were innocent or at the very worst let their parent guard down just a few minutes too long and DeOrr wandered off to his unfortunate demise. Rationally, this makes little sense though. Sure, we can research and turn up examples where a child simply disappeared off the face of the Earth and searches failed to locate them etc....all without any foul play involved. Those cases are rare and so LE and people who post here dont rely on them when theorizing possibilities. There always exist that slim possibility that all the normal things somehow didnt occur and DeOrr left absolutely no trace and repeated searches failed to locate him..etc, but that would be very unlikely. Had he really wandered off, he would likely have been found since the timeline we have been given only gave his little, wobbly, legs with shoes too large for his feet about 10-15 minutes time to get lost. There was still daylight, warm weather, and NO other people to cause him harm. Yet all of these skilled searches trained to notice what others wouldn't see, failed to turn up any sign he wandered through the area.

Jmo and I hope I learn I am wrong but signs seem to be pointing in the other direction. As for forgiveness, mine means nothing to them. If they are guilty, I am inclined to pray for their loved ones to find peace, the rest is not my business.
Jmo

I'm not as convinced that they timeline we have is any more accurate than anything else we've been told. I think the parents may have been away for longer than they say. At least an hour or more.
If Deorr were left unattended (GGP sleeping) for that length of time then he could have covered some ground...possibly as much as 1 mile imo.
It seems to happen all to often that people are found in areas that were previously searched so maybe it's worth another look.
If not, then I tend to agree that the area between the camp and the store should be the focus.
I strongly believe that he will be located.

 

[Beezneez]

Marking my spot again.
Thanks also to everyone who is posting and keeping little DeOrr Jr's case up to date.

To anyone who may have harmed this precious boy--- People are watching you. Maybe not in the physical sense, but by keeping up to date on any developments. Many of us will not forget DeOrr Jr. ; even if you think this will all 'just fade away and be forgotten'. There are people out there who care about these missing children-- even spending their own time and $$, helping to look for the missing, and are assisting in other ways.

As far as having a 'cloudy' memory of that evening and next morning-- many years ago I'd received some bad news through a letter from a friend (had been in her wedding); I won't go into detail but it was disturbing. That day's events aren't all clear, but I still remember what I was doing and how the rest of that dismal day went.
A friend from work and I had stopped for lunch at a cafe-style restaurant and I still remember what food we'd ordered.

It's very hard for me to believe these parents couldn't remember what happened that Thurs. or Fri. ,with extreme clarity.
Apologize if ranting too much ; but had to post this.
Whether DeOrr Jr. is on that mountain or somewhere else-- he deserves justice. It's hard to believe someone has him ; my opinion is that he's earned his angel wings.

:moo:

Extreme clarity is right! I have unfortunately had a couple moments over the years where I experienced a sudden panic that played out over several hours (once after a car accident, once up in the mountains on 4 wheelers). It would be fair to say that I was operating in a blind panic & I remember every horrible detail. The smells, the words used by everyone. What everyone did every second that got the problem going towards help. What the people were doing that were in the way and how badly I wanted to vaporize them to just get them to move. The amounts of each med pushed once we had help. Now, I have worked in an ER, so it would be really odd if I didn't remember these details about my loved ones experiences while in the ER, but the familiarity I have with the ER & emergent medical situations is nothing compared to the familiarity a parent should have with their child. After the moment that your fight or flight system kicks on you are intensely aware of everything. It is a physiological fact. Once they realize that child had "disappeared" the adrenaline rush would have made every sense sharper. There would be no cloudiness about events surrounding that time. Now, the next day maybe they don't have much idea what is going on because their brain has just been squeezed out like a sponge, but the time surrounding Deorrs disappearance will never leave their minds. Unless they were somehow impaired, but JM didn't sound impaired or completely on the edge of an adrenal fireworks show on that phone call. She sounded like she was ordering pizza. I deal with calm & level headed people during emergencies at least twice a week- there is a terse urgency in even the most cynical & experienced ED doc & nurse when they communicate. It's a method of conveying to the other person that you are a professional and have a handle on things but you also need help RIGHT BL##PING NOW. Sorry to ramble, I just cannot get over how odd their behavior has been.