ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #21

[dek]

Agree.

A litmus test of how soon the other campers would have spotted them if they were searching would be how quick the volunteer searchers found the other campers when the volunteer searchers showed up to help.

Or Visa-Versa. How soon did the campers hear or see the other volunteer searchers when they showed up.

That would be the litmus test to prove whether or not there was any real searching going on before the 911 call.

For example when the volunteer searchers showed up if they ran into the other campers right away OR the other campers noticed them right away and that is the first time they realized there were others there then it is a sign that no real searching was going on before 911 was called.

I agree that the other campers should have at least heard someone shouting for Deorr before the 911 call so long as they say they went to the reservoir area to look for him.

Even if they hadn't been aware of the older couple camping before the 911 call, they still had time after the call to have done more searching. On another note, if the older couple had left the area to hike or go into town, I'm sure there would have been camping equipment or something left at their site to indicate there was someone camping there. The Kunz family would have noticed someone was camping there if they had searched that area. I also think that "elderly" campers could have taken a somewhat long hike. I am 65 and have no problem walking 3 or more miles in somewhat rough terrain. (I'm not in the best physical condition either.)

 

[CoverMeCagney]

You're right that we have no idea what they did after the 911 call. I can tell you that I would not sit in one place while my toddler was missing, regardless of what 911 said! I might have had one person (say GGPA) stay in cell phone service, but no way would I have all four adults doing nothing during that time. Finding my child before the sun set would have been the only thing that mattered to me... MOO.

As an add on to this, I would also have been calling 911 back to ask how long they'd be, to make sure the calls were logged etc, to BEG for assistance. Do we know if any further calls were made to police / SAR in that time?

 

[Hatfield]

Even if they hadn't been aware of the older couple camping before the 911 call, they still had time after the call to have done more searching. On another note, if the older couple had left the area to hike or go into town, I'm sure there would have been camping equipment or something left at their site to indicate there was someone camping there. The Kunz family would have noticed someone was camping there if they had searched that area. I also think that "elderly" campers could have taken a somewhat long hike. I am 65 and have no problem walking 3 or more miles in somewhat rough terrain. (I'm not in the best physical condition either.)

I agree. I wish we could have heard an interview with the other campers.

I can understand them not wanting to get on TV or be interviewed though. At first, they may have not even realized what all the commotion was about when the volunteer searchers showed up and they may have decided to leave since the area was beginning to get crowded.

 

[desert-blue]

I guess the real question is how far did they go in "acting out" their missing child story (if one believes the numerous agencies that have stated that the parents know what happened to their son)? When the 911 operator told JM to stay in cell phone range, she didn't object, which I find odd. I wonder if the 911 operator thought that was strange? Would that be something that the behavior analysts might look at as well? When JM was asked if they were near water, she just said, "Yes." That's it - no elaboration on whether it was a creek or a reservoir or both and/or if they had already looked in the water themselves. If both the parents quit searching after the 911 calls, on the basis they were told to stay in cell phone range, that would be suspicious to me. MOO.

 

[desert-blue]

Even if they hadn't been aware of the older couple camping before the 911 call, they still had time after the call to have done more searching. On another note, if the older couple had left the area to hike or go into town, I'm sure there would have been camping equipment or something left at their site to indicate there was someone camping there. The Kunz family would have noticed someone was camping there if they had searched that area. I also think that "elderly" campers could have taken a somewhat long hike. I am 65 and have no problem walking 3 or more miles in somewhat rough terrain. (I'm not in the best physical condition either.)

Totally agree. We don't know how elderly they were either... there is a big difference between 65 and 80... who knows, but I agree their camping stuff would have been there, regardless.

 

[Paulas88]

Totally agree. We don't know how elderly they were either... there is a big difference between 65 and 80... who knows, but I agree their camping stuff would have been there, regardless.

I'm curious if this is the reluctant witness, who didn't come forward because of the media frenzy?

 

[desert-blue]

As an add on to this, I would also have been calling 911 back to ask how long they'd be, to make sure the calls were logged etc, to BEG for assistance. Do we know if any further calls were made to police / SAR in that time?

Yes! Especially given that it seems it took a long time for them (SAR) to arrive. I can't imagine not calling back for an update in all that time. I guess we don't know for sure that they didn't, though. I don't recall that it's been said one way or the other. However, when the number of 911 calls came up, we were told there were three 911 calls and there was no mention of any later calls. Does that mean there weren't any later calls? Maybe, maybe not... who knows...

 

[TheTruthWillOut]

As an add on to this, I would also have been calling 911 back to ask how long they'd be, to make sure the calls were logged etc, to BEG for assistance. Do we know if any further calls were made to police / SAR in that time?

I suggested it might have been the case one of the three who called 911 remained on the line until someone got there.

The one thing I'd like to know (having seen pictures of the campsite at least the day after, I guess) is that there were Leadore marked vehicles and wonder if these were dispatched by LE has they and the likes
of Salmon S&R were further away? The same applies to the park ranger. Both the ranger station and the Leadore ambulance and fire stations are next to each other very near to the SS and SD.

 

[Hatfield]

Another thing about the other campers that should have at least HEARD them if they were truly looking.

I don't know about anyone else but I would have shouted at the top of my lungs and screaming hysterically. Its not like it would be a low volume Where are you Deorr?
If someone had heard me looking for my boy in those woods they would have thought I was being killed by a slasher.
It would have been as loud as physically possible and with extreme emotional distress.

So I do think the other campers would be able to provide quite a bit of good circumstantial evidence about this if they were at their campground before the 911 calls were placed.
And this could be why LE were very interested in locating them and they seemed glad they were able to interview them. I bet it helped them in their investigation.

 

[desert-blue]

I suggested it might have been the case one of the three who called 911 remained on the line until someone got there.

The one thing I'd like to know (having seen pictures of the campsite at least the day after, I guess) is that there were Leadore marked vehicles and wonder if these were dispatched by LE has they and the likes
of Salmon S&R were further away? The same applies to the park ranger. Both the ranger station and the Leadore ambulance and fire stations are next to each other very near to the SS and SD.

Good questions - you would think that someone from the Leadore area would have been dispatched and arrived at the campground fairly quickly, or at least much sooner than Salmon SAR. At a minimum, you'd think they would send the ambulance in case DeOrr was found before SAR arrived, but I don't recall hearing anything along those lines - maybe it's been said and I just don't remember. I wonder if all the Leadore emergency personnel are volunteers, though - that could take a bit longer. Assuming the park rangers would be somewhere in the vicinity though. It would be interesting to know who the first responders were - do we know that?

 

[Hatfield]

Good questions - you would think that someone from the Leadore area would have been dispatched and arrived at the campground fairly quickly, or at least much sooner than Salmon SAR. At a minimum, you'd think they would send the ambulance in case DeOrr was found before SAR arrived, but I don't recall hearing anything along those lines - maybe it's been said and I just don't remember. I wonder if all the Leadore emergency personnel are volunteers, though - that could take a bit longer. Assuming the park rangers would be somewhere in the vicinity though. It would be interesting to know who the first responders were - do we know that?

I am not sure. The only thing I recall is they did seem to acquire lots of resources quickly from what I remember.

I have a lot of respect for first responders of any kind because in the one time I had to call for an ambulance I was really surprised that not only did an ambulance show up but a large fire truck came as well.

I was a little embarrassed because of all the resources that were sent.
I know each place is different and can only speak for the time when I needed medical help and they arrived very quickly for me.

 

[TheTruthWillOut]

Good questions - you would think that someone from the Leadore area would have been dispatched and arrived at the campground fairly quickly, or at least much sooner than Salmon SAR. At a minimum, you'd think they would send the ambulance in case DeOrr was found before SAR arrived, but I don't recall hearing anything along those lines - maybe it's been said and I just don't remember. I wonder if all the Leadore emergency personnel are volunteers, though - that could take a bit longer. Assuming the park rangers would be somewhere in the vicinity though. It would be interesting to know who the first responders were - do we know that?

I do think all Leadore emergency services are volunteers but would like to think the bulk of LE being 55 miles away (may be some were near Lemhi?) they would want to contact anyone closer even if it meant calling them from their work or whatever. The time on scene for the first responders would be nice to know for the timeline.

Having said all that, it may well be moot if LE are right and whatever happened, happened before the first call to 911.

 

[desert-blue]

I do think all Leadore emergency services are volunteers but would like to think the bulk of LE being 55 miles away (may be some were near Lemhi?) they would want to contact anyone closer even if it meant calling them from their work or whatever. The time on scene for the first responders would be nice to know for the timeline.

Having said all that, it may well be moot if LE are right and whatever happened, happened before the first call to 911.

It may be moot in the sense of being able to rescue DeOrr, but it could still be an important piece of the puzzle in determining the truth of what happened that day...

 

[persimmon]

why would it take 7 months to analyze a cell phone or 4 cell phones? That is nuts. i dont believe it. OR they have done it and have nothing...JMO

I agree it's a long time BUT the people performing the analysis are not local LE they are likely a special task force at the state level, as is the case in CA. That said, they are working on many cases and don't be fooled by the term special task force....many of these guys are not really advanced enough to be doing the job. That may sound crazy but I know for a fact it's not. For now, I'm willing to accept this is taking a long time because the individuals performing the task are learning as they go. That is the case in CA. I could get all techie but I'll leave it at that....

 

[persimmon]

I guess the real question is how far did they go in "acting out" their missing child story (if one believes the numerous agencies that have stated that the parents know what happened to their son)? When the 911 operator told JM to stay in cell phone range, she didn't object, which I find odd. I wonder if the 911 operator thought that was strange? Would that be something that the behavior analysts might look at as well? When JM was asked if they were near water, she just said, "Yes." That's it - no elaboration on whether it was a creek or a reservoir or both and/or if they had already looked in the water themselves. If both the parents quit searching after the 911 calls, on the basis they were told to stay in cell phone range, that would be suspicious to me. MOO.

I think they went far enough to fool LE and in doing so I feel they caused enough misdirection of the case during the most critical phase that justice will never be realized. Personally, I am feeling that the quiet from LE indicates they have nothing solid. The more time that passes the nore I lean in that direction. Inconsistencies and inconclusive polygraphs are not enough to charge or secure an eviction even if they do find a body.

 

[TheTruthWillOut]

It may be moot in the sense of being able to rescue DeOrr, but it could still be an important piece of the puzzle in determining the truth of what happened that day...

I agree with you.

I doubt we'll ever know much about the time between ~2:28pm and whenever first responders got there unless someone chooses to talk or if third party witnesses were present.

 

[desert-blue]

From the interview on July 13th:

DK: "so, we decided to call search and rescue uh, and that's when I drove down and she tried getting a signal out um, soon as I got a hold of them, they told me that she was on the other line with them and they had our location and they were on their way."

Why does Klein say that DK's call was first, Jessica's second, and GGPA's third? Is he confused or was DK mistaken when he made this comment?

 

[Niner]

Okay - fallen behind in reading, or you all are just posting away... LOL! cguru:

But wanted to comment on the previous thread...

It would make sense that the first sighting of DeOrr (?) would be at 8am Friday, if
just GGPA/IR were seen at the Silver dollar Thursday eve. I'm thinking a toddler
would be asleep at the 9:30 campsite arrival.

Okay - the Sheriff said they "tried" to buy food - so let's go backwards from the time they arrived at the campsite - approx. 9:30pm Thursday night. 8 miles away - 45 minutes drive one way, but per a local it takes about 20 to 25 minutes one way. So at about 8:30pm there in Leadore at the Stage Stop "trying" to buy food, but that is closed. I know "someone" here posted the hours, and now I can't find the post! :gaah: So if someone can find that - we'll have to "see" if the Stage Stop convenience store was closed at that time.
Just my humble opinion and adding "something" to this case!

Okay, I've been here from the beginning and had gotten sidetracked by some other cases. I have finally caught up now.

My theory is pure speculation and not based on facts or anything in the media. I think DeOrr was passed off to someone who was to meet the parents at Leadore; not at the campsite, but at Leadore. Reason? Hoax to get or raise money, to sell DeOrr, or to keep him out of sight while he recovered from abuse or injuries that could not be explained.

In the above post I asked when that pic was taken. Does anyone know where it was taken or how long before he disappeared? The parents have been named as suspects so I feel I can say again that I do not like how JM is cutting her eyes sideways looking at DeOrr with absolutely no emotion showing on her face. IMO, it isn't like a mother looks at her child unless she is disgusted with him/her. I did say IMO.

That is my honest theory until or unless different facts come to light.

GB this precious little guy and those who love him that had nothing to do with his disappearance.

re bold - THAT would be great - at least he would be alive... but I don't believe that happened, unfortunately... Personally, I think he's in the reservior or creek and they just didn't find him.

Just checking in to say that I do read and catch up here often and will keep checking back here until case is solved.

The other day we all discussed a lot of good theories and I cant think of anything else that isn't already covered.

I like that some new people join in from time to time which can help bring new ideas so thanks everyone for participating in the discussions.

Hey Hatfield :wave: I too come and check "what" is going on... got to keep up my timeline, JUST in case we have something new that is the truth!
And all the new people with new ideas is great for our discussion.

What if the parents didn't return together from the Silver Dollar?

What if one stayed behind and maybe got a ride back with someone from the Silver Dollar. The parent who was supposed to be returning to the campsite with Deorr didn't bring him back. The fact that Deorr wasn't with them wasn't discovered until 8:00 a.m. perhaps by the Ggp and his friend or perhaps by the other parent. In this case Deorr wouldn't be anywhere on the mountain. Just wondering...

But don't you think that "someone" would have come forward with this info? :waitasec:

We don't know who was and who wasn't at the Silver Dollar so I am not going to waste my brain energy on possible SD scenarios.

Good idea! Too much brain energy wasted there until we hear (again) from the Sheriff on that one!

Going to post this before starting on this next thread!

 

[desert-blue]

Listening to the July 13th interview again...

NE: you say (pointing at DK) you were in the truck so was it you (pointing at JM) that first realized "oh no DeOrr's not here?"

Both: no, we both did

DK: after 20 minutes of up and down the creek and up and around the camp and he wasn't there, that's when I got in my pick-up truck and drove down the road to try and get some service

JM: especially after screaming his name, we have nicknames for him, no sound of him, no crying


So, if this is true, you would think the other campers, if they were around, would have heard the parents screaming his name? In the forest, it's very quiet and not a lot of background noise. Plus, they were in an enclosed bowl so I'd imagine sounds would echo a bit as well.

ETA: the exception might be if you were standing right next to the creek. Then you might not hear screaming.

 

[kammiemc]

Some people have no class and no filter and those comments make my jaw drop too. That said, I think shame (used with some responsibility) serves a purpose in society and IMO it is appropriate here. I don't mind some public pressure on the parents to come forward and be truthful. Especially if they are engaging in public conversation. I am surprised to read that there are people who think, based solely on photographs (and despite what LE, FBI and the family's PI are saying), that the father should be "proud" of himself. Yikes.


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