ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #21

[OSpyder]

Some people have no class and no filter and those comments make my jaw drop too. That said, I think shame (used with some responsibility) serves a purpose in society and IMO it is appropriate here. I don't mind some public pressure on the parents to come forward and be truthful. Especially if they are engaging in public conversation. I am surprised to read that there are people who think, based solely on photographs (and despite what LE, FBI and the family's PI are saying), that the father should be "proud" of himself. Yikes.


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On the contrary, I think this is one of those cases where public shaming (if you will) is just pushing the knowledgable people further away from telling what they know. There is a big difference between guilt and anger. I think in this case, everybody is so angry, they may not have (or have had) enough, if any time to feel guilty. Don't get me wrong, 7 months is a LONG time for a 2.5 year old to be missing, but the last 7 months have seemed to be more focused on what is on the outside, rather than what is on the inside. Maybe I'm wrong though.

 

[kammiemc]

Listening to the July 13th interview again...

NE: you say (pointing at DK) you were in the truck so was it you (pointing at JM) that first realized "oh no DeOrr's not here?"

Both: no, we both did

DK: after 20 minutes of up and down the creek and up and around the camp and he wasn't there, that's when I got in my pick-up truck and drove down the road to try and get some service

JM: especially after screaming his name, we have nicknames for him, no sound of him, no crying


So, if this is true, you would think the other campers, if they were around, would have heard the parents screaming his name? In the forest, it's very quiet and not a lot of background noise. Plus, they were in an enclosed bowl so I'd imagine sounds would echo a bit as well.

ETA: the exception might be if you were standing right next to the creek. Then you might not hear screaming.

I never caught that DK says in this interview that he left in his truck after searching for 20 minutes. That doesn't jibe with the fact that he could be heard talking to 911 in the background of JM's 911 call when she says DeOrr had been missing for about an hour. Whoops, DK!


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[Rayemonde]

On the contrary, I think this is one of those cases where public shaming (if you will) is just pushing the knowledgable people further away from telling what they know. There is a big difference between guilt and anger. I think in this case, everybody is so angry, they may not have (or have had) enough, if any time to feel guilty. Don't get me wrong, 7 months is a LONG time for a 2.5 year old to be missing, but the last 7 months have seemed to be more focused on what is on the outside, rather than what is on the inside. Maybe I'm wrong though.

Angry? Do you mean the parents have been angry since DeOrr vanished? Angry about what?

 

[Rayemonde]

I never caught that DK says in this interview that he left in his truck after searching for 20 minutes. That doesn't jibe with the fact that he could be heard talking to 911 in the background of JM's 911 call when she says DeOrr had been missing for about an hour. Whoops, DK!


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It only adds up if they were at the creek looking at the minnows (or whatever!) for 40 minutes. And then they assumed that ggp had lost sight of DeOrr as soon as they left him. :fishy:

 

[OSpyder]

Angry? Do you mean the parents have been angry since DeOrr vanished? Angry about what?

Sorry, I should have clarified that. I meant the backlash from SM would make anybody in their shoes angry if they are legitimately trying to find their son. But then again, it is SM which brings us back down that slippery slope as to why they would be online in the first place when their son is missing. Maybe I'm just not making sense...? :dirp:

 

[kammiemc]

On the contrary, I think this is one of those cases where public shaming (if you will) is just pushing the knowledgable people further away from telling what they know. There is a big difference between guilt and anger. I think in this case, everybody is so angry, they may not have (or have had) enough, if any time to feel guilty. Don't get me wrong, 7 months is a LONG time for a 2.5 year old to be missing, but the last 7 months have seemed to be more focused on what is on the outside, rather than what is on the inside. Maybe I'm wrong though.

I'm not sure that I understand 100%. But, to clarify, I am not talking about seven months ago when people were jumping to conclusions without information and harassing the parents.

But, in my own opinion, I think now that the sheriff said he "absolutely" believes the parents know where their son is and that they repeatedly and consistently failed two majorly critical questions on their poly's, shame (on shameful behavior) is not misplaced.

I am not saying I think it's the public's role to strategize as to how to make them come forward. I just think in general that shame, along with laws, rules, etc., can help keep us in line and that some shame on the parents at this time doesn't bother me.


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[kammiemc]

It only adds up if they were at the creek looking at the minnows (or whatever!) for 40 minutes. And then they assumed that ggp had lost sight of DeOrr as soon as they left him. :fishy:

Yep, except they didn't give that story, or at least not consistently enough for it to stick. It seems the story that the sheriff believed is that they were gone for about 20 minutes (Klein got 17 mins) then searched for about 40 before calling. But I think that timing is all bogus anyway, besides the times of the 911 calls.


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[OSpyder]

I'm not sure that I understand 100%. But, to clarify, I am not talking about seven months ago when people were jumping to conclusions without information and harassing the parents.

But, in my own opinion, I think now that the sheriff said he "absolutely" believes the parents know where their son is and that repeatedly and consistently failed two majorly critical questions on their poly's, shame (on shameful behavior) is not misplaced.

I am not saying I think it's the public's role to strategize as to how to make them come forward. I just think in general that shame, along with laws, rules, etc., can help keep us in line and that some shame on the parents at this time doesn't bother me.


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I wasn't being clear either and I apologize. It makes sense in my head but that doesn't mean much today!

I agree w/ where you are coming from. I am not arguing w/ you one bit, believe me. I am also I thinking though, that the the extremes people are taking it to are beyond anything that will necessarily help anybody, especially Little D. All I meant was that I could see the VDK and JM (maybe even extended family?) being so overwhelmed by all the outside commotion or shaming, that it keeps them more focused on the anger directed towards them, then from feeling any shame or guilt or anything else b/c if it. Ack! I hope that makes more sense?

 

[Rayemonde]

I wasn't being clear either and I apologize. It makes sense in my head but that doesn't mean much today!

I agree w/ where you are coming from. I am not arguing w/ you one bit, believe me. I am also I thinking though, that the the extremes people are taking it to are beyond anything that will necessarily help anybody, especially Little D. All I meant was that I could see the VDK and JM (maybe even extended family?) being so overwhelmed by all the outside commotion or shaming, that it keeps them more focused on the anger directed towards them, then from feeling any shame or guilt or anything else b/c if it. Ack! I hope that makes more sense?

Yeah... There are some people people who take everything way way too far. But I don't think it's helpful to go too far the other way and give them loads of sympathy... Some people even seem to see them as martyrs or heroes. That is just enabling behaviour IMO. But I think the hate campaign on fb that was run by conspiracy theorists who seemed to have little interest in the truth has caused people to rally around in support of the parents.... And made them band together.... I know that before they were announced to be suspects, whenever I personally read the really hateful stuff on fb it made me feel a lot more sympathetic towards the parents and made me feel bad for harbouring doubts about them.

All just MOO. :moo:

 

[kammiemc]

I wasn't being clear either and I apologize. It makes sense in my head but that doesn't mean much today!

I agree w/ where you are coming from. I am not arguing w/ you one bit, believe me. I am also I thinking though, that the the extremes people are taking it to are beyond anything that will necessarily help anybody, especially Little D. All I meant was that I could see the VDK and JM (maybe even extended family?) being so overwhelmed by all the outside commotion or shaming, that it keeps them more focused on the anger directed towards them, then from feeling any shame or guilt or anything else b/c if it. Ack! I hope that makes more sense?

I hear ya. It definitely gives them something to fight against. And they can latch onto any untruths that people are throwing at them as vindication they are indeed victims of a public gone rogue.

I think some people will do anything to convince others (and even themselves) that they are telling the truth when the stakes are high.


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[bessie]

Images require appropriate links.

 

[MistyM]

Sorry....the thread wavered Off Topic for a bit about yet another missing child we learned of today...name is Titus Tackett....I was just responding to that...Sorry about the near heart attack!!!! It was one of those knee jerk reactions when I posted that....

poor little guy.

 

[Yvettea]

There is something else that may be relevant. During the 911 call JM volunteers, "all down where we were camping at and we can't find him at all." Does she mean she's no longer there at the campsite? When she says "all down" does she mean she's moved to a higher elevation?

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Listening to the July 13th interview again...

NE: you say (pointing at DK) you were in the truck so was it you (pointing at JM) that first realized "oh no DeOrr's not here?"

Both: no, we both did

DK: after 20 minutes of up and down the creek and up and around the camp and he wasn't there, that's when I got in my pick-up truck and drove down the road to try and get some service

JM: especially after screaming his name, we have nicknames for him, no sound of him, no crying


So, if this is true, you would think the other campers, if they were around, would have heard the parents screaming his name? In the forest, it's very quiet and not a lot of background noise. Plus, they were in an enclosed bowl so I'd imagine sounds would echo a bit as well.

ETA: the exception might be if you were standing right next to the creek. Then you might not hear screaming.

bbm

Why did she say that?? Because if some witness could have testified they didn't hear calling the name "Deorr" all over the camp ground? Protected against anything that might come? Odd - for me.

 

[CanadianWells]

bbm

Why did she say that?? Because if some witness could have testified they didn't hear calling the name "Deorr" all over the camp ground? Protected against anything that might come? Odd - for me.

i still don't get everyone's hang ups on the nickname thing. We barely called my 15 month old by name until I started reading the Deorr threads. I'm pretty sure she thought her name was Bubbagirl until about 2 months ago. Had she gone missing before reading everything people have said about nicknames and it being odd and distancing and indicative of a lack of love, I would have been in the news bawling about "the Bubs" and "my sweet bubba girl," and I wouldn't have been calling her name when I searched. I also probably would have made that clear, in case someone found her and she didn't respond to her name. I now make a conscious effort to call her by name, but her nickname has more emotional value to me still ATM. One of my neighbourhood kid friends growing up was little guy. I thought that was his name. I never actually knew his name, even after moving away at 10 yo.

 

[ConcernedCitizenID]

i still don't get everyone's hang ups on the nickname thing. We barely called my 15 month old by name until I started reading the Deorr threads. I'm pretty sure she thought her name was Bubbagirl until about 2 months ago. Had she gone missing before reading everything people have said about nicknames and it being odd and distancing and indicative of a lack of love, I would have been in the news bawling about "the Bubs" and "my sweet bubba girl," and I wouldn't have been calling her name when I searched. I now make a conscious effort to call her by name, but her nickname has more emotional value to me still ATM. One of my neighbourhood kid friends growing up was little guy. I thought that was his name. I never actually knew it, even after moving away at 10 yo.

I'm with you re: the nickname thing. I have always thought, "Of COURSE they used a nickname for him. After all, how many DeOrr's are there in this family???"

 

[Jamaica Me Crazy]

Sorry, but "Little Man" makes me want to gag. I just don't like it. But, fortunately, he does know his real name, or at least JM says he will tell you his name is DeOrr if you ask him. Sadly, I don't think anyone will get to ask him his name ever again.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I don't think a nickname would be odd, but I think to speak of nicknames at this point seems unnecessary and therefore a little bit suspect. JM called for her boy when searching him - okay. Certainly she called names little Deorr was used to hear from his parents - okay. My feeling is, she is telling unimportant things like her overflowing partner and there is a reason for that. IMO

 

[ZooSleuth]

There is something else that may be relevant. During the 911 call JM volunteers, "all down where we were camping at and we can't find him at all." Does she mean she's no longer there at the campsite? When she says "all down" does she mean she's moved to a higher elevation?

Couldn't this just mean she was closer to the reservoir, which from my understanding is just further up the mountain than the campsite? "Down where we were camping" could mean only the immediate area where their vehicles and the camper were parked at.

 

[kytty]

I agree and think at this point we are getting nowhere. This is why things get messy. In all honesty, I feel the parents are responsible but I cannot imagine a scenario wherein the other two individuals could not be at least complicit in a cover up.

Respectfully snipped. I think that this is what the parents are counting on Law Enforcement, family, and the public to believe and why these two individuals were brought on the camping trip. JMO