ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #21

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves
Status
Not open for further replies.
Oh you mean biological evidence specifically. They definitely do have physical evidence and have mentioned it. Just because they haven't mentioned anything about biological evidence doesn't mean they don't have any.

FYI. You can educate yourself on types of evidence here: http://nij.gov/topics/forensics/evidence/dna/basics/pages/identifying-to-transporting.aspx

Physical evidence is any tangible object that can connect an offender to a crime scene. Biological evidence, which contains DNA, is a type of physical evidence.


<modsnip>

But don't you think that if they did then SB would maybe have the slightest clue as to what happen and if a crime took place? And I would consider knowing for a fact they hide DeOrr and lying to them at that campsite a crime. I'd say his comments go hand in hand with not having any. That's just personally what I beleive from watching all this unfold.

Sent from my SM-S920L using Tapatalk
 
I agree. He is *not* the enemy here. I feel like he's been more than fair with all of us (and that "all" includes JM and VDK). He has my respect and trust.

I agree. I think he has been scrupulous and incredibly light-handed in dealing with the public in this case in order to protect the investigation--an incredibly sensitive one at that! I think (and I think a lot of people think) that he has more than he is disclosing. He is not legally obligated to share with us what he has. But he is legally obligated to have a pretty darn good idea that the parents were involved to call them suspects.

But, even if ALL he has is their incessant lying about their son's disappearance that STILL is pretty damning. Maybe it wouldn't end up convicting them of something in the court of law. But in the court of common sense, it doesn't fly. At all.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
bbm: That's because he's a POI rather than a suspect.

I do agree that people seem to be protecting him -- not just IR but also the family. I'm just not sure *why. It could be simply because he's older and frail. That's probably the simplest theory. There could be other reasons, though. There's really no easy way to tell given the information we have.

Yeah, and since he is not a suspect and the sheriff hasn't given us any reason to suspect foul play on his part, I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt and leave him out of it. He's elderly and ill, with memory problems, we know that much. That seems like the simplest explanation as to why people are being protective of him.
 
I agree. I think he has been scrupulous and incredibly light-handed in dealing with the public in this case in order to protect the investigation--an incredibly sensitive one at that! I think (and I think a lot of people think) that he has more than he is disclosing. He is not legally obligated to share with us what he has. But he is legally obligated to have a pretty darn good idea that the parents were involved to call them suspects.

But, even if ALL he has is their incessant lying about their son's disappearance that STILL is pretty damning. Maybe it wouldn't end up convicting them of something in the court of law. But in the court of common sense, it doesn't fly. At all.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I don't think they even need much more than the lying about what happened to DeOrr, tbh. I've posted examples earlier in the thread of people who have disappeared a kid and been convicted of murder, without a body or a confession or a witness to the murder and in some cases without any blood. Of course, then you also have your Casey Anthonys, who get away with it. You never know which way a jury is going to go. That's why they would rather take their time, get as much evidence as possible and decide carefully what to charge each parent with. Jmo.
 
But don't you think that if they did then SB would maybe have the slightest clue as to what happen and if a crime took place? And I would consider knowing for a fact they hide DeOrr and lying to them at that campsite a crime. I'd say his comments go hand in hand with not having any. That's just personally what I beleive from watching all this unfold.

Respectfully, will you please explain in a different way what you mean? I'm seriously having a hard time understanding this sentence: And I would consider knowing for a fact they hide DeOrr and lying to them at that campsite a crime.

Does anybody have a link to the place were the sheriff said that he doesn't have a clue? I know I've seen it, but want to read about the context.

ETA: Here is where the sheriff made the comment: http://www.eastidahonews.com/2016/01/sheriff-i-just-pray-little-deorr-will-be-found/
 
Respectfully, will you please explain in a different way what you mean? I'm seriously having a hard time understanding this sentence: And I would consider knowing for a fact they hide DeOrr and lying to them at that campsite a crime.

Does anybody have a link to the place were the sheriff said that he doesn't have a clue? I know I've seen it, but want to read about the context.

I think there's a comma missing that would make it more understandable...
And, I would consider the fact they hid Deorr and lied to them, a crime.

Sorry but I'm a grammar nut :) The use of mixed tense in the original sentence is hard to follow as well. So basically the point is that if they lied to LE and know anything about Deorrs disappearance it should be a crime that the parents lied about it.
 
In the same interview, Bowerman also says this:

I get emails from all over the country. A lot of people, of course, they&#8217;re curious and there&#8217;s been so many rumors and innuendos and so forth. With social media it&#8217;s almost impossible to clear all those up without giving away some information that might harm the case, so we&#8217;re just being patient and we&#8217;re trying to get it right.

http://www.eastidahonews.com/2016/01/sheriff-i-just-pray-little-deorr-will-be-found/

He's worried about giving away any information that might harm the case.
 
I know LE has more or less stated they believe little Deorr is no longer alive, Klein has even more so. But I still think there's a very small chance, I hope there is, that someone may have him. I don't think by "forced abduction", but something else involving the parents. I was awake all night thinking about this, well not just this, so please be patient with me, lol.

Something that keeps nagging at me is the bawling baby with the man in a black truck, as well as VK's overtly over reaction when he was discussing this. And the diesel fuel purchase, which I realize is absolutely nothing if one of their vehicles is diesel. I don't remember that ever being determined other than Klein stating it went to evidence and / or "no comment".

Anyway, just a for instance and only theory: If there really was a man in a black truck with a bawling baby on Friday at 6 p.m., VK wanted to make very sure no one believed it. So he claimed it was himself but at a different time of day... If they didn't drive diesel vehicles, why purchase diesel fuel, perhaps for someone else so they wouldn't have to stop for fuel. So why would the man stop at the store anyway, maybe the baby just wouldn't stop crying... or maybe he was an idiot ? :banghead:

I know, it's a far-fetched possibility but I still hold onto a little hope, it would be absolutely amazing if he was alive and well somewhere. Thanks for hearing me out. :)
 
But don't you think that if they did then SB would maybe have the slightest clue as to what happen and if a crime took place? And I would consider knowing for a fact they hide DeOrr and lying to them at that campsite a crime. I'd say his comments go hand in hand with not having any. That's just personally what I beleive from watching all this unfold.

Sent from my SM-S920L using Tapatalk

Sorry if this is long:

I think at this point, there is no question (at least IMO) that there have been lies and a 7-mo coverup of DeOrr's death by the suspects (with or without knowledge of either or both of the other two POI's).

Are you questioning why LE has not charged them with the crimes they KNOW happened even if they can't yet prove beyond a reasonable doubt other things, like the type of death/cause of death/direct involvement of the suspects in the death?

I don't think there is any way for us to ever know the intricacies of what conversations are happening between the DA and LE. But the holding off on arrests is so, so, so frustratingly common in cases. Just poke around. Look at the Teresa Sievers case on WS. Sheesh, I am reading the Ted Bundy book, and in WA, they had remains of women all in one remote place that Ted held close to his heart and the women were from random places, all that Ted had visited during the times of their disappearances. His wife was saying that he slept in the car at night and he had all these weapons and weird masks, plus plaster of Paris and crutches (for his fake cast to lure them, and so much more). Oh, and they knew the murderer's name was Ted and drove the same car!

Yet, they didn't feel they had enough yet to arrest yet. Meanwhile LE shared zero of this info with the public even though the murders were so high profile.

Anyway, that was decades ago. But the point remains that I think it's really complicated. People get off on technicalities too often. SB said he wanted to take his time to get this right. I don't think the public is going to get enough details of the inner-workings of the ongoing investigation (nor should we) to look at all the info and evidence and determine, ourselves, whether LE has enough to stand behind their determinations. We can choose to accept that they know what they are doing and are being truthful--or not.

I DO accept their determinations. And I trust that LE, FBI and Klein are all on the same page for a good reason. But it's for everyone to decide on their own. I just wouldn't base that decision on assuming that we would be made privy to all the info/evidence that they have inside the firewall of the investigation.

Just 'cause we don't know, don't mean it ain't so!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
That's so true, Kammie. When I was reading about Bianca Jones, whose father pretended she had been kidnapped but was later convicted of her murder (despite no body ever being found), I noticed that he was named as a suspect soon after her disappearance because LE knew he was lying about what had happened, but he wasn't charged with murder until 3 years later.

I think that in no-body cases LE like to take as long as they can to file charges just in case the body turns up. Imagine a jury finding someone not guilty because there was no body, then the body turned up - double jeopardy would protect them from being tried again for the same crime.
 
@neesaki

I think, apart from anything else, the diesel purchase and bawling baby sighting are two completely separate things. I think the diesel purchase was them filling up in/around IF before driving up to Timber Creek.

IIRC it was mentioned diesel fuel isn't even available in Leadore anyway. Don't know if that is true though?
 
@neesaki

I think, apart from anything else, the diesel purchase and bawling baby sighting are two completely separate things. I think the diesel purchase was them filling up in/around IF before driving up to Timber Creek.

IIRC it was mentioned diesel fuel isn't even available in Leadore anyway. Don't know if that is true though?

Yeah, you're probably right.
 
I don't know what GGP's health issues are but a lot of health problems wouldn't stop anyone from committing a crime against a child. Just wondering if his health problems would stop him from successfully hiding the body in [whatever the time frame is] . Would the others cooperate and cover for him?

If I was the parent who is not related to GGP and he did something to my child, and somehow got me to lie in order to save his *advertiser censored*... I think I would be fairly tempted to start spilling the beans right about when they declare me the suspect instead of him.
 
I don't know what GGP's health issues are but a lot of health problems wouldn't stop anyone from committing a crime against a child. Just wondering if his health problems would stop him from successfully hiding the body in [whatever the time frame is] . Would the others cooperate and cover for him?

If I was the parent who is not related to GGP and he did something to my child, and somehow got me to lie in order to save his *advertiser censored*... I think I would be fairly tempted to start spilling the beans right about when they declare me the suspect instead of him.
Hmmm. Good point. Could be why Vernal Lawyered up?


Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
 
I don't know what GGP's health issues are but a lot of health problems wouldn't stop anyone from committing a crime against a child. Just wondering if his health problems would stop him from successfully hiding the body in [whatever the time frame is] . Would the others cooperate and cover for him?

If I was the parent who is not related to GGP and he did something to my child, and somehow got me to lie in order to save his *advertiser censored*... I think I would be fairly tempted to start spilling the beans right about when they declare me the suspect instead of him.

IMO the fact that GGP is on oxygen would make it pretty difficult for him to physically hide the body. I doubt he is directly responsible, but he might know what happened and helped in the cover-up, either willingly or without even realizing it.
 
Bowerman: "I have no clue. Absolutely no clue. There’s a lot of things I could speculate but I really don’t want to go there. I don’t want to have to apologize for making a statement that wasn’t true. I want to get it right."

BBM

The context for the "I have no clue" statement tells why he said it. Also, even if they had all the forensic evidence they could want, plus other peoples' accounts of what they say happened, he still wouldn't KNOW for a fact exactly what happened. If there was video and audio, maybe, but for the most part it's just connecting the dots and trying to piece together what they think happened, based on the evidence. He strikes me as a careful man.. he isn't going to speak out of turn, not having all the dots connected yet. So, he doesn't KNOW exactly what happened, and he isn't going to verbalize what he THINKS happened before the dots are connected. But, have no doubts about it... he has LOTS and LOTS of dots, IMO. He is, IMO, a man who doesn't make a decision on what he thinks or knows until he has considered every possible scenario. I think he is truly an unbiased, not quick to jump the gun and judge, person. That makes me feel like he had to have the dots connected in order to name them suspects, and I trust his decision and belief that they are indeed suspects.

I believe he has evidence that DeOrr is dead. And, he knows the parents have to be lying because they keep telling different versions of the events... no way they can be telling the truth with each different account. It's not possible. Obviously, there is more evidence that we know nothing about.

As far as IR and GGP, if something happened at the campsite and DeOrr died and his body hidden somewhere, I don't think there is any way the two of them don't AT LEAST know about it. They certainly know more than what they've said and lawyering up and not talking doesn't make them appear completely innocent and without key knowledge. It is so sad to me that if IR and GGP even know ANYTHING, that they are more interested in saving their own hides than in what was/is best for a COMPLETELY innocent child. A baby, really, FGS!
 
Fwiw, SB has completely discredited the notion of an abduction. The following leaves no room for doubt:

Bowerman says he is &#8220;100 positive&#8221; the toddler wasn&#8217;t abducted.

The use of an absolute to make his point strongly suggests he has an ace or two up his sleave. I really believe as others have suggested this is a matter of getting it right and not letting those guilty escape justice.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
143
Guests online
1,465
Total visitors
1,608

Forum statistics

Threads
599,296
Messages
18,094,087
Members
230,841
Latest member
FastRayne
Back
Top