ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #22

[Jamaica Me Crazy]

100 % DISAGREE

http://www.pollyklaas.org/missing/kids/images/kunzdeorrlg-1.jpg

The bruises on this baby's head are in the shape of an adult size large left hand. The most prominent bruise resembles an index finger and swelling is evident where the thumb would be on the baby's right temple. The other bruises clearly show finger marks.
This injury would have happened by slapping downward with the hand and then squeezing...or basically grabbing him by the head from above.

Always..JMO

Or he fell down face first because he was wearing cowboy boots that were three sizes too big.

 

[pepelepolecat]

Does anyone know why Jessica lost custody of her older two children? I'm seeing rumors about drugs, abuse, neglect, etc. But none of it seems to be backed up with anything substantial.

afaik, she didn't lose custody but gave it up willingly.

 

[neesaki]

This may not make sense to anybody else but I think a lot of toddlers and babies look somewhat bruised due to their thin skin. Additionally, their veins are often more visible in certain areas (especially around the face and forehead) creating a look of faint bruising. This is more visible in lighter complected children but not exclusive imo. Just a thought.

It does make sense, and I don't see it on the larger photo I posted.

 

[pepelepolecat]

I am just noticing in the first picture, baby Deorr has very red eyes! I don't know if it's just a bad picture, but I don't think so. He looks drugged in my opinion. I wonder about that redness around his mouth, it doesn't look right either.

That redness looks to me like a kid who keeps licking his lips after they're chapped. One of mine does it and gets a huge red ring around his mouth every winter, which I then coat with coconut oil (which he hates). Eventually it heals. But it really does look exactly like that. I think DeOrr had chapped lips and was licking them.

 

[Hatfield]

Interesting. I would not have thought of that, but you could be right - dirt would disguise bruises. Perhaps the rumor of the truck sighting was a multi-faceted rumor to "explain" many things people might have seen... (although I'm not of the opinion DeOrr made it to the store, it's still food for thought....)

Whoa. I hadn't even thought of that either. Possibly using dirt to cover bruises on his face or body. That would be sneaky and devious. Maybe that is why a quick plan to go camping with the hope they could disguise his bruises long enough to where they would heal over the weekend but they realized it wasn't going to work and they decided to do away with him altogether.

I hope that is not what happened but some things would begin to fit if something like that happened. The alleged sighting at the store of a dirty child was one of the first things in the news that surfaced.

 

[Hatfield]

Just speculating along those lines.

That remote camping site always struck me as strange since I think it was mentioned the parents had not been there before but GGP had.
If you want to hide out for a few days to try to heal some bruises then what better way than to go to a remote place where nobody at all is around you.

Also the oversized boots.
Could the plan have been to say he tripped while camping and fell down a hill and got a bunch of bruises so they could return with a story about them.

It is frustrating to not be able to know what happened to Deorr. The little boy did not deserve whatever happened to him.
I continue to hope that LE will be able to solve this case.

 

[giagreen]

If we determined abuse from pictures where a child appears to have a bruise then almost every parent in the world should be worried. I can't count the times my own two year old has had a bruise that matches DeOrr's bruise. 9 out of 10 times its because my son will get going running while pushing his truck, his truck gets stuck and he goes flying over it and face plants. It looks no diffrent. It could be anything.





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[persimmon]

This is a serious question. Does each state have laws regarding spanking? Idk why, but I feel it's against the law in my state? Maybe it's just because it's never been a part of my life. Anybody? Spanking allowed?

 

[giagreen]

This is a serious question. Does each state have laws regarding spanking? Idk why, but I feel it's against the law in my state? Maybe it's just because it's never been a part of my life. Anybody? Spanking allowed?

I'm about 90% sure in Wisconsin spanking is the only form of physical disapline that is allowed and it can't leave a mark.

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[Butler]

I read previously that JM lost custody of her older two children due to meth use. Is there any validity to that? Does anyone know if DeOrr, Sr. has a history of drug abuse?

Please link a source to this allegation. She has no arrest record for drug use and she did not "lose" custody of her two older children. She & her ex husband made the decision that he was better able to care for the children. This has been discussed multiple times in many of the previous 21 threads.

 

[pepelepolecat]

This is a serious question. Does each state have laws regarding spanking? Idk why, but I feel it's against the law in my state? Maybe it's just because it's never been a part of my life. Anybody? Spanking allowed?

Spanking is legal in all 50 states. http://time.com/3379862/child-abuse/

Spanking kids is also viewed largely favorably in American society (even while experts warn that it isn't good for kids). http://www.brookings.edu/blogs/soci.../2014/11/06-parenting-hitting-mobility-reeves

 

[neesaki]

If we determined abuse from pictures where a child appears to have a bruise then almost every parent in the world should be worried. I can't count the times my own two year old has had a bruise that matches DeOrr's bruise. 9 out of 10 times its because my son will get going running while pushing his truck, his truck gets stuck and he goes flying over it and face plants. It looks no diffrent. It could be anything.





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Oh, I agree. I personally was only trying to determine if it was bruising versus something else, such as dirt, etc.

 

[Butler]

The lack of physical evidence at the campsite, the fact that absolutely nothing turned up during the extensive searches, and the lack of witnesses putting DeOrr at the campsite make me think that whatever happened to DeOrr, it happened elsewhere, before the camping trip. Abuse is certainly a possibility, but it's one I'm hesitant to cling to, because there is nothing to outright support it. Thank you, Rayemonde, for clarifying about the drug use rumors.
I did think it was a possibility that JM had relapsed, wasn't able to pay adequate attention to DeOrr, and that he'd gotten himself into trouble while she was indisposed. That would have explained why she felt the need to cover it up with this weird camping trip instead of seeking help. But if there's nothing to substantiate the drug suspicions, it's a baseless suspicion.

What is your source that JM is a drug user? There is nothing in any official record that indicates drug use by JM.

 

[SoccerMotha]

I have to disagree with all the talk about the "bruise" on his head. I have two boys and there are times I am afraid to take them in public because of bumps, bruises, black eyes, I don't want people looking at me sidways. I have never hit or spanked my children for that matter and I would be heartbroken if people saw the blackeye my lil one got from wacking it on the table and thought I hurt him.

Furthermore, my older son has a disorder with a broad range of suckiness and bruises quite easily. I guess what I'm trying to say is that it's a slippery slope to say these things based on a picture. I'm more concerned with S.B. appealing to the public about how they may have treated him.

 

[Spomraning]

I haven't read all the pages since the chatter about the bruising so hopefully I'm not totally off topic with this. Starting around 18 months or so, my little guy was dirty faced, scratched up and often times bruised in random places, some more obvious than not. He also drooled and slobbered like crazy, resulting in the red mouth and chin. I am 100% sure that I, nor my husband, nor his daycare providers, nor any of my family members or friends, nor anybody who saw him on a fairly regular basis suspected that he was abused. He was a rough and tumble kid who loved playing outside, jumping, climbing, and having dirty hands and faces were a part of all that. I don't see sad eyes in little DeOrr. Nor do I see bruises or scratches that seem odd or unusual. It's really hard to tell from the photos I've seen what may be bruises, veins, dirt, or shadows. My daughter is quite fair and can sometimes appear to have black eyes, especially when she's tired. My son right now (at 6 years old) can't get out of the habit of licking his lips, so they're red all around his mouth. My point is that nobody has come out (at least that I can recall reading, or LE releasing info) and said that they've suspected little DeOrr had been abused in the past. If I'm incorrect please link to the article!! My thoughts on what happened to the precious little guy have been all over the place, but absolutely no place in my mind have I gotten the feeling that he was abused.

JMO, MOO, IMO, and all that jazz

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Just speculating along those lines.

That remote camping site always struck me as strange since I think it was mentioned the parents had not been there before but GGP had.
If you want to hide out for a few days to try to heal some bruises then what better way than to go to a remote place where nobody at all is around you.

Also the oversized boots.
Could the plan have been to say he tripped while camping and fell down a hill and got a bunch of bruises so they could return with a story about them.

It is frustrating to not be able to know what happened to Deorr. The little boy did not deserve whatever happened to him.
I continue to hope that LE will be able to solve this case.

I have just read, GGP knew the campground from 27 years before. IF that is right, then the whole journey becomes more suspicious, IMO.

 

[Rayemonde]

<snip> My point is that nobody has come out (at least that I can recall reading, or LE releasing info) and said that they've suspected little DeOrr had been abused in the past. If I'm incorrect please link to the article!! My thoughts on what happened to the precious little guy have been all over the place, but absolutely no place in my mind have I gotten the feeling that he was abused. <snip>

Just this (bbm):

28th Jan 2016:

05:31
TG: You have asked for people who may have witnessed interactions between the parents and Deorr to come forward. Is there any indication that Deorr was neglected or abused prior to this camping trip?

05:42
SB: You know, that&#8217;s a part of investigation I&#8217;m&#8230;I&#8217;m not willing to talk about at this point. I know that we&#8217;re getting tips every day, people that think there&#8217;s something that&#8217;s usually small but they think it&#8217;s important for our office to know, and we&#8217;re following up on those leads as fast as we can, but they&#8217;re coming in quite frequently, so uh, you know I&#8217;d rather not comment on any&#8230;anything of that nature.


29th January 2016:

"We&#8217;ve asked the public to come forward. I had four or five telephone calls this morning from individuals who either know Mom and Dad and the child and have seen them either interact in the past or they&#8217;ve overheard something or they think they can provide information."

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...Timelines-and-Maps-**NO-DISCUSSION-quot/page4

http://www.eastidahonews.com/2016/01/sheriff-i-just-pray-little-deorr-will-be-found/

Personally, reading between the lines I think LE have had allegations of abuse and are looking for further witnesses to build a strong case for this. JMO.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

That redness looks to me like a kid who keeps licking his lips after they're chapped. One of mine does it and gets a huge red ring around his mouth every winter, which I then coat with coconut oil (which he hates). Eventually it heals. But it really does look exactly like that. I think DeOrr had chapped lips and was licking them.

I assume, he has sucked of the ball, which he holds in his hand? The colour is somehow the same. BUT why did he: hunger, thirst, as a consolation ...?

 

[desert-blue]

I have just read, GGP knew the campground from 27 years before. IF that is right, then the whole journey becomes more suspicious, IMO.

I think that's true - JM's mom stated they used to go there when she was a child, if I remember correctly. I'm not following how that's suspicious, though...Gramps just wanted to go there again and take his fishing buddy - he probably has happy memories of the place (although not anymore, I'd imagine).

 

[kammiemc]

Your post sounds like another poster who is on time out. Don't you guys think.

Though it has been discussed a lot as to why JM's ex might have full custody of her young children, it has never been determined. People have cited that one of her friends explained it on FB that she decided that her kids could have a better life with him. To that, I say, if JM wouldn't be straight with her friends, family, LE and the public about the disappearance of her toddler, why would she be straight with friends about why she has no custody. I don't believe the rumors of what she has said, because I don't believe anything she says. I would believe her ex if HE said it.

Also, the idea that a 20-something mom starting out in life would willingly relinquish all custody to a 20-something then-single dad, also just starting out in life, because he could provide such a better life is highly suspect to me. They were the same--unless she had severe problems that would stop her from being an adequate mother. (Given what has happened, that wouldn't shock me I guess.)

I personally DO think it's pretty significant in this missing child's case that one of the two suspects either lost or gave up custody of her other young, adorable children. It is counter to what most even semi-capable mothers would choose and could point to a disinterest in being a mother. IMO.


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