ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #23

[swedie]

Marking my spot. IMO it's only a matter of time before the truth is revealed. Someone will crack sooner or later. Praying for DeOrr.
MOO.

 

[jnblsm]

Yes, he said a specific area & that there will be specializes dogs from GA, I wonder what specialization. I googled cadaver dogs Georgia & came up with several results- nothing jumped out at me to indicate what specialty. I imagine that with the ground being frozen & limited human traffic over the winter that existing cadaver scent cues may be more apparent. That is a SWAG on my part, if anyone has more knowledge on the topic??

SWAG? What does that mean?

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[jnblsm]

I think Klein is definitely working with Idaho & the FBI - otherwise, he wouldn't be doing this - he is getting alot of notoriety from it. I can't imagine the costs he has endured and will continue to endure. Also, it will be thawed around the 3rd week in March in Leadore so I expect we will have some news. In my opinion, IR blew this case wide open once LE assured him he was safe. I have always expected the parents to come out with the truth before his body is found to avoid worse charges.

On
IR, imo, is really trying to help himself understand how his friend, Bob, could be involved in something so sinister as what's going on. He might not know "the exact truth" but he's confused as to WHY there is even an issue.
Poor guy was just excited to go fishing/camping, then he found himself thrown into more than he wanted.

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[kammiemc]

I do not think Klein is doing this for baby Deorr at all. He is doing media interviews like he is the sheriff himself. Tim Miller would never do that to a family even if he did feel that they wasted his time and allocated funds that could have went to help with other cases. Jmo

I don't see why a private investigator was even hired by them, since all of this took place in a secluded campsite (100s of miles away ).

Who did the family expect him to investigate out there. Just curious?

To be honest, I did worry at first that he would try to further the parents' "abduction" agenda, just like Vilt tried to do, even though we found out that, in reality, Vilt thought JM adopted out her son in some logistics that were enabled Utah adoption laws.

I don't really care if Klein is an altruist or doing it for the glory. I do feel that he has moved this investigation forward and I am glad he was brought onboard--even if he disappointed his most industrious parents-supporting fundraisers by agreeing with FBI and LE. (Talk about a backfire!)


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[DexterMorgan]

How can Klein say accident and homicide in the same sentence and the parents are still saying that they don't know what happened?

Is he saying that they hinted to him that an accident took place. If so then why would he believe that; if the parents supposedly do not want Deorr found per Klein statements.

So why doesn't Klein just say he feels Deorr was murdered and forget the accident business.

Because if they ever are charged with the body still not recovered; Then he will be forced to tell the jury that he concluded that an accident took place while the prosecution is saying murder. Now the only thing next to that is negligent homicide which will still be hard to prove.

The sheriff needs to tell Klein to leave the accidental theory alone if they plan on going for murder charges. Jmo.

Or you're going to have a Casey Anthony verdict.

 

[Purplepixii]

Wow, I go to bed & Klein drops this bombshell! Am so pleased that we've had another update on the case (& what an update it is!)

Can't help but think the snow & ice will have acted to preserve little DeOrr to some extent - I hope that makes determining CoD easier!

 

[Lillahazel]

Can someone please explain to me why a poly can't be used as a tool to find the location of a body? Sort of like a 20 questions thing?


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[cobalt sky]

I do not think Klein is doing this for baby Deorr at all. He is doing media interviews like he is the sheriff himself. Tim Miller would never do that to a family even if he did feel that they wasted his time and allocated funds that could have went to help with other cases. Jmo

I don't see why a private investigator was even hired by them, since all of this took place in a secluded campsite (100s of miles away ).

Who did the family expect him to investigate out there. Just curious?

How can Klein say accident and homicide in the same sentence and the parents are still saying that they don't know what happened?

Is he saying that they hinted to him that an accident took place. If so then why would he believe that; if the parents supposedly do not want Deorr found per Klein statements.

So why doesn't Klein just say he feels Deorr was murdered and forget the accident business.

Because if they ever are charged with the body still not recovered; Then he will be forced to tell the jury that he concluded that an accident took place while the prosecution is saying murder. Now the only thing next to that is negligent homicide which will still be hard to prove.

The sheriff needs to tell Klein to leave the accidental theory alone if they plan on going for murder charges. Jmo.

Or you're going to have a Casey Anthony verdict.

Agree!!!

I know that we are all excited about what Klein had to say because we so badly want baby DeOrr found and justice for him, but I would feel much better if had come from LE instead of Klein. Many things bothered me about this interview but I will highlight 3 of them here: (quotes from TXJan1971's transcript http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...CUSSION-quot&p=12390382&posted=1#post12390382 )

1) "They are the lead on this case at this point in time since it is now a criminal case, and we will either follow or we will move out of the way regarding the direction they give us at this point." bbm This statement sounds like arrests have already been made and charges filed, imo only LE should be making statements like this when the time is appropriate.

2) 08:21 Chelsey: Okay! So, I mean, did they know that you were going to release this statement, and do they know about the search?

08:28 Klein: There have been plans for a search for awhile. I think at this point we are in the process of combining efforts. We’ll be flying dogs in from Georgia, and we’ll be flying another specialized team of investigators in from Georgia that specializes in Search and Recovery. We will be working at the direction and with the permission of Sheriff Bowerman of Lemhi County. We will not get in their way. If they wish us not to search, we will hold back until they’re done, but my guess is we will be all working together as a team. Like I said before, this is the first time I have ever seen a team of professional investigators on the county level, the federal level and on the PSB level working together. This should be a model case for missing persons, especially missing children around the United States. That’s why this case is moving so fast at this point.

Reporter:
Okay! All right, well, thank you Mr. Klein…

Notice how he did not answer her question as to whether he notified LE that he had planned to release his statement.

3) 05:46 Klein: Now, we want to make it clear that Isaac Reinwand, the fourth person up on that mountain, has changed. He has given us a statement. We are vetting that statement now. It will take us a couple weeks to vet that statement completely out and what he has told us. We want to make it clear that Mr. Reinwand is now cooperating with the police and now cooperating with our team. We’ve had an opportunity to visit with him on multiple occasions, and he has now come forward.

Sheriff B has made it clear on more than one occasion that Isaac has been cooperative and remained cooperative with LE from the start. Another misleading statement from Klein.

I want to believe that LE is secretly working with Klein and asking him to make these statements in order to further the case somehow, but I'm not feeling very confident about that right now. The only thing I know for certain after Klein's statement is that it was GREAT PR for Klein!

all imo

 

[DexterMorgan]

Agree!!!

I know that we are all excited about what Klein had to say because we so badly want baby DeOrr found and justice for him, but I would feel much better if had come from LE instead of Klein. Many things bothered me about this interview but I will highlight 3 of them here: (quotes from TXJan1971's transcript http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...CUSSION-quot&p=12390382&posted=1#post12390382 )

1) "They are the lead on this case at this point in time since it is now a criminal case, and we will either follow or we will move out of the way regarding the direction they give us at this point." bbm This statement sounds like arrests have already been made and charges filed, imo only LE should be making statements like this when the time is appropriate.

2) 08:21 Chelsey: Okay! So, I mean, did they know that you were going to release this statement, and do they know about the search?

08:28 Klein: There have been plans for a search for awhile. I think at this point we are in the process of combining efforts. We’ll be flying dogs in from Georgia, and we’ll be flying another specialized team of investigators in from Georgia that specializes in Search and Recovery. We will be working at the direction and with the permission of Sheriff Bowerman of Lemhi County. We will not get in their way. If they wish us not to search, we will hold back until they’re done, but my guess is we will be all working together as a team. Like I said before, this is the first time I have ever seen a team of professional investigators on the county level, the federal level and on the PSB level working together. This should be a model case for missing persons, especially missing children around the United States. That’s why this case is moving so fast at this point.

Reporter:
Okay! All right, well, thank you Mr. Klein…

Notice how he did not answer her question as to whether he notified LE that he had planned to release his statement.

3) 05:46 Klein: Now, we want to make it clear that Isaac Reinwand, the fourth person up on that mountain, has changed. He has given us a statement. We are vetting that statement now. It will take us a couple weeks to vet that statement completely out and what he has told us. We want to make it clear that Mr. Reinwand is now cooperating with the police and now cooperating with our team. We’ve had an opportunity to visit with him on multiple occasions, and he has now come forward.

Sheriff B has made it clear on more than one occasion that Isaac has been cooperative and remained cooperative with LE from the start. Another misleading statement from Klein.

I want to believe that LE is secretly working with Klein and asking him to make these statements in order to further the case somehow, but I'm not feeling very confident about that right now. The only thing I know for certain after Klein's statement is that it was GREAT PR for Klein!

all imo

Agree totally. Good post.

Who in the world will schedule time and transportation for dogs and teams to come in from Georgia and still be in limbo about having to wait for the sheriff to give an okay about when these resources can actually be utilized in the field.

He says that we are bringing in this, that and the third. But then he sounds like he doesn't even have approval yet from the sheriff.

Agent Hotchner and J.J would definitely be mad about how he has been interacting with the press while constantly mentioning that the fbi and sheriffs and his agency and connections are working together to solitify an arrest against the family for murder which he thinks was accidental.

Just wow.

 

[DexterMorgan]

If Deorrs dad is a truck driver. Then wouldn't he have a phone charger in his car just for purposes of a possible cell phone dying out.

So why did he have to drive down the road for being afraid that his phone battery was going to die out.

Why take the phone charger out of the car when that is the only power supply?

 

[Bethan]

If Deorrs dad is a truck driver. Then wouldn't he have a phone charger in his car just for purposes of a possible cell phone dying out.

So why did he have to drive down the road for being afraid that his phone battery was going to die out.

Why take the phone charger out of the car when that is the only power supply?

My understanding is he was "hauling down the road" to get a better signal.


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[bessie]

Can someone please explain to me why a poly can't be used as a tool to find the location of a body? Sort of like a 20 questions thing?


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Why would anyone who claims to be clueless about another person's whereabouts submit to such a test? And think about it. How would you phrase the questions to be answered with a yes or no response?

You're right. It would be just like a game of Twenty Questions, and the replies all would be "I dunno", which doesn't work with a polygraph exam. That type of interrogation is best conducted in oral interviews, where different techniques are employed to elicit information.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Good morning.

Wow!

That is all.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Isaac Reinwand has changed. Given them a statement and is now cooperating with them and they have spoken to him on multiple occasions and he has now come forward. Klein is thanking him for coming forward.
(Paraphrasing, not word for word.)

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...CUSSION-quot&p=12390382&posted=1#post12390382

........... publicly thank Mr. Reinwand for that. We understand his fear, and we want to make sure that the public understands that he has come forward at this point.

bbm
Thought, this part is important too.

 

[LaLaw2000]

I had never personally heard of Klein prior to little DeOrr's case and I have followed plenty of missing children and missing cases. It astounds me that people have placed so much faith in him and hang on every word he says. If anything was official it would be coming from Sheriff Bowerman or the FBI, IMO.

My pure speculation is that Sheriff Bowerman is not backing up Klein's statements because he is not sure himself that little DeOrr is indeed dead, IMO. There is no body at this point and he is not sure what happened other than both of DeOrr's parents know what happened to him and where he is. Does Klein have magical powers that neither the Sheriff or the FBI have? I think not. Sheriff Bowerman is very careful in what he does say. He does not want to bring any charges he can't prove and later find out that is not the case.

I believe IR is telling the truth. I do believe that he saw little DeOrr at that campsite but did not see him after the parents and DeOrr left to go to the store in Leadore 'as a family'. I firmly believe that is when the parents passed him off to someone as in an illegal 'adoption', sold him, or had hurt him to the point where they could not let him be seen by family and friends. Then when the parents returned to campsite, IR was fishing and GGPA was made to believe little DeOrr was there when he really wasn't.

I will believe that until there is a body found or it is proven little DeOrr is dead. I also believe that the older couple who were camping up the mountain know more than has been disclosed to us and have been truthful with LE.

I know I am alone in this train of thought, but that's okay. Only time will tell. I may be FOS, but I believe Klein really is!! I suppose that is okay to say since Klein is all over SM as well as the news without showing any evidence whatsoever that he is right. Any good WS sleuther could have come up with better than Klein has, IMO.

Big MOOS!!!!

 

[Jamaica Me Crazy]

Klein said he will reveal some evidence today. Does anyone know if this will be on his website or in an interview with the media?

 

[LaLaw2000]

http://m.localnews8.com/news/interv...ip-klein-on-deorr-kunz-investigation/38264866
They know where to look for him! Oh I hope this is closing up!

Klein knows where to look better than LE and the FBI? I have to wonder about that!

*Going into lurking mode.

JMO

 

[Purplepixii]

Why would anyone who claims to be clueless about another person's whereabouts submit to such a test?

Because these people seem to think they're above the law maybe?

And think about it. How would you phrase the questions to be answered with a yes or no response? You're right. It would be just like a game of Twenty Questions, and the replies all would be "I dunno", which doesn't work with a polygraph exam. That type of interrogation is best conducted in oral interviews, where different techniques are employed to elicit information.

I think that the FBI would be smart enough to ask closed questions (that can only elicit a yes or no answer) in a poly to get closer to the truth & location of DeOrr Jr. Such questions, off the top of my head, could go along the lines of:

Q: Did DeOrr leave Idaho Falls alive
A: Yes

Q: Is DeOrr buried in Idaho Falls
A: No

(so now look at the journey)

Q: Was DeOrr disposed of between Idaho Falls and Leadore
A: No

(so now look at the campsite)

Q: Is DeOrr buried at the campsite
A: Yes
or
A: No (with deception indicated)


Unfortunately I am currently at work so this is as far as I can take this at the moment but I could go on for ages, with a flow-chart, to map this hypothetical situation out.

 

[Jamaica Me Crazy]

Klein knows where to look better than LE and the FBI? I have to wonder about that!

JMO

LE and the FBI probably have a pretty good idea where to search since all three entities have the same information culled from interviews and evidence. They just haven't been as verbal as Klein.

 

[LaLaw2000]

LE and the FBI probably have a pretty good idea where to search since all three entities have the same information culled from interviews and evidence. They just haven't been as verbal as Klein.

BBM:
With good reason, IMO. They want to protect the integrity of their investigation with facts rather than speculation, IMO.

*Last post, I promise! Just going to read until I hear from Sheriff Bowerman or the FBI!