ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #24

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Has anyone given this any thought: JM's dad lived in Dillon Mt. years ago. From Leadore Idaho to the reservoir (Clark Canyon) near Dillon is 1 hr 31 minutes, to Dillon Mt itself is 1 hr 51 min, if traveling the mountain roads. There are so many places between the 2. From Leadore to Canyon Creek area is only 21 minutes. There is also a road along the way that doesn't appear to go anywhere. NF-189. Whose to say JM doesn't know the area by talking to her father? Why not throw ppl off by going the opposite direction to hide a body?

I've thought of this too, what if something happened to Deorr in Idaho Falls, they disposed of his body somewhere else, then they went up to Timber Creek as part of the cover up. It's concerning that it sounds as though no one had seen Deorr in Leadore, or for that matter since who knows when. :scared:

Also, Clark Canyon Reservoir is 123 miles north of Idaho Falls, and via I-15 is a round about route to Leadore. I don't know, maybe there's evidence they didn't travel that direction. It seems there could be so many possibilities, I sure hope LE has some kind of evidence pointing toward a specific area to search. I also wonder if Klein stating the search would be somewhere in the vicinity of the lower campground is somewhat of a red herring.
 
Just for clarification, has IR been officially cleared in this case? I thought Klein said something along those lines, but I don't know if LE has agreed? Is he still a POI?

Klein did say in one of his last interviews that he gave that since IR has come forward with new information, both he and LE no longer consider him a suspect (he was never "officially" call that by LE, anyway). Klein also said that he and LE spoke both with IR and his attorney re: same and IR is no longer represented by an attorney because it is no longer necessary.

The discussion re: IR starts around the 17 minute mark: http://www.localnews8.com/video/full-interview-with-private-investigator-phillip-klein/38307258
 
The diaper is nothing more than a FB rumor. Both LE and Klein have stated they know nothing about it.

Per True Crime Radio, recorded on 012816, at 20:33, SB stated that he was unaware of any diaper found either with or without blood; However, he then stated that there were two bathrooms, one by their campsite and another at another camp location. They were "pumped" and no diapers were found. That stuck with me because if Deorr was alive through Thursday evening, I would have thought he would still be wearing diapers/pull-ups at least at night. Some children, more often girls, are fully potty-trained by 2 1/2, but do not know, IRRC, if Deorr was fully or partially potty-trained.

http://www.truecrimeradio.com/radio-archives/sheriff-lynn-bowerman-radio-archive-jan-2016/
 
Why do people think that LE didn't treat this as a possible crime from the beginning?

Because when you hear hoofbeats, you look for horses, not zebras. They were in a wilderness area with a seemingly lost child, so they looked for a lost child. I think as soon as they got the hint that this wasn't a lost child, they changed directions. They could have wasted critical minutes/hours treating it as a crime had it really been a lost child, imo.

all jmo, moo
 
Because when you hear hoofbeats, you look for horses, not zebras. They were in a wilderness area with a seemingly lost child, so they looked for a lost child. I think as soon as they got the hint that this wasn't a lost child, they changed directions. They could have wasted critical minutes/hours treating it as a crime had it really been a lost child, imo.
I don't think law enforcement ever just takes people at their word. It's their job to be skeptical. Of course they searched for him, but I think they kept an open mind from the beginning.
 
I've thought of this too, what if something happened to Deorr in Idaho Falls, they disposed of his body somewhere else, then they went up to Timber Creek as part of the cover up. It's concerning that it sounds as though no one had seen Deorr in Leadore, or for that matter since who knows when. :scared:

Also, Clark Canyon Reservoir is 123 miles north of Idaho Falls, and via I-15 is a round about route to Leadore. I don't know, maybe there's evidence they didn't travel that direction. It seems there could be so many possibilities, I sure hope LE has some kind of evidence pointing toward a specific area to search. I also wonder if Klein stating the search would be somewhere in the vicinity of the lower campground is somewhat of a red herring.

My personal belief is that something happened to him in Idaho Falls and that the camping trip was a ruse to dispose of his body. It appears that no one saw him in Leadore, despite Vernal's exaggerated stories that other customers were playing with him in the store and the guy pumping gas saw him. (Gahhhh, what a sham these parents are!)

When WebSleuths did the interview of SB, the question I submitted was "When was the last time someone (other than the 4 on the camping trip) saw DeOrr alive?" SB didn't really give a clear answer. Since I was the one who submitted the question, it's been on my mind a lot and because of that I've been hyper-aware in keeping my eyes and ears open for the answer. Forgive me that I don't have a link, just please trust that this answer is correct because I've been hoping for it for some time, but the other day it was revealed that they (Klein???) do have confirmation that the last time someone saw DeOrr alive was in Idaho Falls at around 6pm the day before he went missing. If memory serves me correctly, it was Klein who finally answered this question because he's the one who has done the most speaking out in this case recently. So sorry that I don't have the link - does someone else have it?
 
I don't think law enforcement ever just takes people at their word. It's their job to be skeptical. Of course they searched for him, but I think they kept an open mind from the beginning.

I agree with you. But I think they went into search-and-rescue mode right away because a lost child on a camping trip is far more likely than a murdered/dead-by-accident-thrown-away-like-trash child on a camping trip. I do think LE suspected something nefarious pretty early on, fwiw. (Even writing that just makes me so unbelievably angry -- I cannot understand how any parent can do that. I really don't.)

again -- all my opinion only
 
I don't think law enforcement ever just takes people at their word. It's their job to be skeptical. Of course they searched for him, but I think they kept an open mind from the beginning.

I think that goes with the territory considering that there is parental/family involvement in about 80-90% of missing child cases.
 
My personal belief is that something happened to him in Idaho Falls and that the camping trip was a rouse to dispose of his body. It appears that no one saw him in Leadore, despite Vernal's exaggerated stories that other customers were playing with him in the store and the guy pumping gas saw him. (Gahhhh, what a sham these parents are!)

When WebSleuths did the interview of SB, the question I submitted was "When was the last time someone (other than the 4 on the camping trip) saw DeOrr alive?" SB didn't really give a clear answer. Since I was the one who submitted the question, it's been on my mind a lot and because of that I've been hyper-aware in keeping my eyes and ears open for the answer. Forgive me that I don't have a link, just please trust that this answer is correct because I've been hoping for it for some time, but the other day it was revealed that they (Klein???) do have confirmation that the last time someone saw DeOrr alive was in Idaho Falls at around 6pm the day before he went missing. If memory serves me correctly, it was Klein who finally answered this question because he's the one who has done the most speaking out in this case recently. So sorry that I don't have the link - does someone else have it?

I guess he didn't specify where he was seen, just the time.
From the media thread:http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...Timelines-and-Maps-**NO-DISCUSSION-quot/page6

Q&A with Chelsea Brentzel KIFI KIDK news.
https://www.facebook.com/ChelseaBrentzelNews/?fref=nf

HERE ARE THE RESPONSES FROM MR. KLEIN.

16. When was the last time someone other than these four had eyes on Little DeOrr?

ANSWER : Great question - we have one witness at 6 p.m. on the night before.

ALLEN BROWNING RESPONSES

16. Vernal says there were people who saw DeOrr Jr. in a store in Leadore with him the day he went missing. Those people do not recall seeing him.
 
My personal belief is that something happened to him in Idaho Falls and that the camping trip was a rouse to dispose of his body. It appears that no one saw him in Leadore, despite Vernal's exaggerated stories that other customers were playing with him in the store and the guy pumping gas saw him. (Gahhhh, what a sham these parents are!)

When WebSleuths did the interview of SB, the question I submitted was "When was the last time someone (other than the 4 on the camping trip) saw DeOrr alive?" SB didn't really give a clear answer. Since I was the one who submitted the question, it's been on my mind a lot and because of that I've been hyper-aware in keeping my eyes and ears open for the answer. Forgive me that I don't have a link, just please trust that this answer is correct because I've been hoping for it for some time, but the other day it was revealed that they (Klein???) do have confirmation that the last time someone saw DeOrr alive was in Idaho Falls at around 6pm the day before he went missing. If memory serves me correctly, it was Klein who finally answered this question because he's the one who has done the most speaking out in this case recently. So sorry that I don't have the link - does someone else have it?

Sorry don't have the link but i remember it and was posted upthread just recently.
 
Because when you hear hoofbeats, you look for horses, not zebras. They were in a wilderness area with a seemingly lost child, so they looked for a lost child. I think as soon as they got the hint that this wasn't a lost child, they changed directions. They could have wasted critical minutes/hours treating it as a crime had it really been a lost child, imo.

all jmo, moo

^^^ YES, THIS!!! ^^^ If they had treated this as a crime from the first minute they arrived, they would have wasted precious minutes in trying to find a missing child in the wilderness - near water, no less. Remember the urgency in the 911 operator's voice when Jessica answered her question as to whether they were near water? She immediately went into action and said they would be sending S&R right away. I'm sure the initial search effort probably destroyed crucial evidence, but I will not fault LE for that (the blame goes to JM/VDK). At the time, LE had no way of knowing that a crime had taken place. And wasn't it something like 10 days into the search that LE announced they would be suspending it and "changing directions?"
 
What I read on SM and even some here makes me wonder what has happened to this world. It makes me sad that people can so proudly post their judgement of others for the world to see.

Maybe the real problem with the world is how much value people put on others opinions on SM. If JM and VDK looked past everyone and their opinions and focused on their number one priority in life things would be different.

I'm curious what your best case scenario could be on this topic?


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I think that goes with the territory considering that there is parental/family involvement in about 80-90% of missing child cases.
Thanks. I agree. Law enforcement is going to keep an open mind from the start. Hence, keeping an officer with the parents constantly, as I posted a few days ago.
 
That is fair enough, and i have no idea what people are saying on SM because i don't care for SM very much personally.
But that is what these crime boards do mostly is speculate about what might have happened in these cases, like a "Whodunnit" mystery.

JMO
LE is forced to not release a lot of information because they have to protect the investigation in case it goes to trial. So I think what happens in cases like this is people try to learn as much as possible about the case and begin to review other information that is available.

So long as people are very careful and treat anything they find with a huge grain of salt there can be helpful information that is found elsewhere.

When trying to analyze the situation I think most people add up all the information they find and it helps people to decide on things.

LE is very limited to be able to provide us with much but Klein shared some of his information and some of it was much more than LE provided.
We can choose whether or not to believe whoever we want to believe and we have to take all information with a grain of salt.

For Kleins information IMO I do think he had no reason to lie about certain things so I found some of his specific information helpful. Like the cadaver dogs hitting on equipment and things like that.

The main LE statements that helped me were when LE was adamant about the inconsistent stories and LE thinks the parents know where the boy is.
That is huge to me because it means they know everything about what happened. I choose to believe LE.

So as we begin to try to put things together it all gets put in its spot.

We do not know what happened but things center around people not being truthful. When someone is not truthful then it means they are trying to hide something.

In order to try to figure out what they are hiding then speculation into theories begin to happen and that is ok IMO so long as they are stated as just theories. Theories based on things we have learned from all sorts of places.

And that is where SM can be helpful. Some small pieces of information can be found out and if it is true then it helps make other things begin to make sense. The problem is deciding on which pieces of information may have some truth to it and which is not.

Some choose to throw away all of it but others try to decide if there is any truth in some of the information. Its really not a lot different than what LE does when they gather all their information. Its just that the public has a lot less available to work with. LE has certain tools they can use to help make sure their information is accurate. The public doesn't have that luxury so people have to make up their own mind if any information has any truth or basis to it.

I guess one of the points I am trying to make is that certain opinions and theories are based on a lot of research that was done. Not everyone is just throwing out a wild guess. Some of the theories and opinions have been carefully weighed against a lot of research that was done by gathering all types of information and listening to all the interviews and reading all the articles that are available. And of course trying to keep in mind what little actual facts are known.

Added all together there can be some good theories that are well thought out and carefully considered.
 
^^^ YES, THIS!!! ^^^ If they had treated this as a crime from the first minute they arrived, they would have wasted precious minutes in trying to find a missing child in the wilderness - near water, no less. Remember the urgency in the 911 operator's voice when Jessica answered her question as to whether they were near water? She immediately went into action and said they would be sending S&R right away. I'm sure the initial search effort probably destroyed crucial evidence, but I will not fault LE for that (the blame goes to JM/VDK). At the time, LE had no way of knowing that a crime had taken place. And wasn't it something like 10 days into the search that LE announced they would be suspending it and "changing directions?"

You don't think law enforcement can think in more than one direction at once?
 
That has been my theory from the first day I read about this case and I'm still there.

I don't buy that one..that would fall into the accident category where people don't get prosecuted, no reason to HIDE this. Its a tragic thing that happens, I mean at worse they would get some negligence charges or something like that. It seems its very rare that parents are prosecuted..only the ones whose kids live..the ones where kids die they usually get off. And its not like other kids will be taken from them, they don't have full custody of any other children..so that isn't a thought either. IMO it was something that proves not an accident...like shaken baby syndrome or something to that effect. Something that once the body was found would leave no doubt that it was not an accident. You don't cover up accidents! You don't bury or destroy your child for an accident. I wouldnt do it for anything, so it must have been bad and it must have been something that couldnt be explained away.
 
^^^ YES, THIS!!! ^^^ If they had treated this as a crime from the first minute they arrived, they would have wasted precious minutes in trying to find a missing child in the wilderness - near water, no less. Remember the urgency in the 911 operator's voice when Jessica answered her question as to whether they were near water? She immediately went into action and said they would be sending S&R right away. I'm sure the initial search effort probably destroyed crucial evidence, but I will not fault LE for that (the blame goes to JM/VDK). At the time, LE had no way of knowing that a crime had taken place. And wasn't it something like 10 days into the search that LE announced they would be suspending it and "changing directions?"

Here's an article originally posted Saturday, July 11, 2015 (one day later), and then updated. I do recall the search was suspended early on and then it came out it wasn't really suspended, they were reorganizing, etc.

Perhaps the "cadaver dogs" did hit early on, thus the need to "reorganize."

Posted Saturday, July 11, 2015
Updated: Monday, July 13, 2015

Video: Somone with LE (OR S&R) says in the beginning @ 0:14 “A lot of facts didn’t add up…!”

LEADORE, Idaho –

Search suspended for missing 2-year-old in Lemhi County

Crews suspended the search for a missing 2-year-old boy who was camping with his family in the Leadore area.
Lehmi County Sheriff's Office has not confirmed why the search is suspended.

http://www.localnews8.com/news/search-contiunes-for-missing-two-year-old-in-lemhi-county/34110688
 
I don't think law enforcement ever just takes people at their word. It's their job to be skeptical. Of course they searched for him, but I think they kept an open mind from the beginning.

It wasn't treated as a crime scene at the beginning. Folks were free to come and go. None of the four POIs were tested for drugs or alcohol (that we know of; I'd like to be wrong on this), no vehicles were impounded, etc. Did LE search through their trash, did LE check their bags and go through their belongings, did the parents have proper food, drink, diapers, and clothing for DeOrr, were the POIs movements monitored? Who knows... I get the impression that it was treated primarily as a lost child case and nothing else for at least the first two days, which would have been a crucial time to collect evidence. In my opinion, it would have been prudent for at least ONE law enforcement officer to have been collecting evidence from the get-go. I understand search and rescue would have been the absolute number one concern, but it would not have hindered the search efforts to have had one person simultaneously looking for "other" clues. I'm not trying to criticize LE. It's a small town and people do get lost in the wilderness on occasion - I can understand why they thought it was nothing more, but I feel they were a bit naive in being so trusting of these parents. I guess I don't think they were being very skeptical at the beginning. Obviously this is just my opinion (and maybe I'm wrong; I'd be elated to find out that LE WAS collecting evidence from the get-go).
 
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