ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #24

[Blue Skies]

Well the problem in this case is we don't really have much to go on yet except that all four adults involved have been inconsistent in their stories to LE, which is making them look like liars. So who exactly is lying about what? We don't know yet.
As far as Klein is concerned i am not sure what to make of him? What solid evidence is there that Deorr is deceased? Cadaver dog evidence may or may not be admissable in a trial, and have LE come out and stated anything about Deorr's being dead? I can't recall them stating that. Definitely if he did wander away he would not have survived this long, but nobody knows exactly what happened to him yet.

Actually, the PROBLEM in this case is that JM and VDK have not told the same story twice so I think it's safe to say that not only do they look like liars, they are liars. Either that or they are both bats*** crazy.

At the very LEAST, Deorr's parents failed to properly watch him in a very dangerous environment. Even if we assume a scenario that leaves them the least responsible, they STILL failed to properly watch their child. For example: We can be fairly certain he wasn't taken by an animal (per law enforcement), but even if he were, they should have been watching him closely enough to KNOW EXACTLY what happened. Also, there never should have been an opportunity for him to wander away IMO.

If I were camping with my 2-year-old child, I can tell you that either myself or my husband would have our eyes on that child at ALL times. Communication would be very clear and if I was handing over responsibility, I would wait until I got a response and was certain that he knew he was solely responsible. I would have slept with the child right next to me.

I'm not saying accidents do not happen to innocent parents. They certainly do, but we are talking about a 2-year old baby here. If an accident did happen, somebody should know what happened because somebody should have had their eyes on that child. They were in the wilderness!

 

[FinallyRegistered]

I don't buy that one..that would fall into the accident category where people don't get prosecuted, no reason to HIDE this. Its a tragic thing that happens, I mean at worse they would get some negligence charges or something like that. It seems its very rare that parents are prosecuted..only the ones whose kids live..the ones where kids die they usually get off. And its not like other kids will be taken from them, they don't have full custody of any other children..so that isn't a thought either. IMO it was something that proves not an accident...like shaken baby syndrome or something to that effect. Something that once the body was found would leave no doubt that it was not an accident. You don't cover up accidents! You don't bury or destroy your child for an accident. I wouldnt do it for anything, so it must have been bad and it must have been something that couldnt be explained away.

I agree with you, completely. But, check this out ... this list represents VDK & JM's motivators to cover up hot-car death or oops-I-backed-over-my-child death.:
1. VDK - He's a trucker. He could lose his job if his child dies related to a vehicle. He'll be deemed a failure.
2. JM - She's a caregiver. She could lose her job if her child dies under her watch. She'll be deemed a failure
3. JM (2nd pt) - She's a mother of two other children and her custody with them is less than 50%. She'll be deemed a failure as a mother, again.

 

[jstinch]

I believe LE knows most of what happened and they are waiting to recover the body, I would also guess they have a very good idea of the general location as well. At least that is my hope. MOO

 

[12madelyn]

I've thought of this too, what if something happened to Deorr in Idaho Falls, they disposed of his body somewhere else, then they went up to Timber Creek as part of the cover up. It's concerning that it sounds as though no one had seen Deorr in Leadore, or for that matter since who knows when. :scared:

I had not realized this, but saw it in an article Nate Eaton had written this summer. He quotes Reinwand: EastIdahoNews.com spoke with Reinwand briefly Monday morning on his doorstep. He confirmed Deorr was with him and the great-grandfather before he went missing, but Reinwand declined to answer further questions.
"He just disappeared," Reinwand said.
I had heard IR confirm in an interview that little Deorr was at the cg, but in this statement says he was in the care of IR and ggp. Doesn't that dispute a lot of theories?

 

[Lillahazel]

Jessica lost her job because she is now a suspect in her son's disappearance. When you google her name, you'll see all the articles. How is she going to get hired again? It will be an uphill battle.

It's ironic to me because every one of those articles exposed that information because of JM and VDK publicly announcing it by Browning.


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[TheTruthWillOut]

I had not realized this, but saw it in an article Nate Eaton had written this summer. He quotes Reinwand: EastIdahoNews.com spoke with Reinwand briefly Monday morning on his doorstep. He confirmed Deorr was with him and the great-grandfather before he went missing, but Reinwand declined to answer further questions.
"He just disappeared," Reinwand said.
I had heard IR confirm in an interview that little Deorr was at the cg, but in this statement says he was in the care of IR and ggp. Doesn't that dispute a lot of theories?

It does but since that time months ago the truth has been coaxed out of him. It seems he had fears about speaking out and possibly of LE and may be wanting to protect GGP as his friend.

Even Klein was very scathing of him until recently (or just blowing off as he seems to do to get people talking) but in his latest interview has praised him highly and even says IR's lawyer has stood down.

 

[The Apparition]

I had not realized this, but saw it in an article Nate Eaton had written this summer. He quotes Reinwand: EastIdahoNews.com spoke with Reinwand briefly Monday morning on his doorstep. He confirmed Deorr was with him and the great-grandfather before he went missing, but Reinwand declined to answer further questions.
"He just disappeared," Reinwand said.
I had heard IR confirm in an interview that little Deorr was at the cg, but in this statement says he was in the care of IR and ggp. Doesn't that dispute a lot of theories?

Too much time has passed since that article. He seems to be repeating what the party line was at that time at best. He also appears to be slipping in and out of consciousness and the Eaton is leading him, he is basically just grunting yeah. I don't know if you've seen that interview but it also appears that IR is naked. Naked sleepy people don't seem to make the best candidates for on air interviews, at least not on public TV. Now Cinemax on the other hand has done some wonderful work in that genre, or so I'm told.

 

[FinallyRegistered]

Too much time has passed since that article. He seems to be repeating what the party line was at that time at best. He also appears to be slipping in and out of consciousness and the Eaton is leading him, he is basically just grunting yeah. I don't know if you've seen that interview but it also appears that IR is naked. Naked sleepy people don't seem to make the best candidates for on air interviews, at least not on public TV. Now Cinemax on the other hand has done some wonderful work in that genre, or so I'm told.

OT ... I love you.

 

[iluvmua]

I for one, believe this was no accident and that Deorr was dead before they even made it to camp. jmo

 

[LietKynes]

I had not realized this, but saw it in an article Nate Eaton had written this summer. He quotes Reinwand: EastIdahoNews.com spoke with Reinwand briefly Monday morning on his doorstep. He confirmed Deorr was with him and the great-grandfather before he went missing, but Reinwand declined to answer further questions.
"He just disappeared," Reinwand said.
I had heard IR confirm in an interview that little Deorr was at the cg, but in this statement says he was in the care of IR and ggp. Doesn't that dispute a lot of theories?

RSBM

Hmmm.... Not trying to sleuth here, but I've thought that possibly all four persons at that campout know more than they're letting on. Just so sad ; imo.

DeOrr Jr. was a human being whose life mattered. He wasn't an 'annoyance' whose possible death needed to be covered up lest someone go to prison.
:moo:

 

[LietKynes]

It's ironic to me because every one of those articles exposed that information because of JM and VDK publicly announcing it by Browning.


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SABBM

So, in a way, JM and VDK have no one to blame except themselves for the negativity surrounding them -- imo.

Off-topic, but it amazes me how much people post on sm.

 

[giagreen]

<modsnip>

I don't buy the abduction theory, never really have given the location. But again I state only four people were there and know the truth. We can only guess, theorize, speculate, and assume.

All this talk about a diaper and somehow that there was one (or lack of others) suddenly becomes evidence to prove they were bad parents. I don't know why their stories change, or why they've done some of the things they have but I am still withholding judgement until I hear something official from someone in a position to give official information.

[emoji122] [emoji122]

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[Hoosgirl]

Doesn't the fact that someone was able to wander in and scatter cremains in the reservoir, and the fact that someone was able to break into a vehicle and steal and EMT bag, indicate that the scene was not secured quickly enough?

I hope that LE would have left an officer with the parents 24/7 from the beginning, but they wouldn't have the resources to do that, would they? Being such a tiny sheriff's department, I can't imagine them immediately allocating an officer to trail the family when time was of the essence to find a lost child alive...

Even if not a sheriff LE, maybe someone from state police? I mean, surely there was someone with LE or SAR with them those first days. What if they had found Deorr? They would want immediate access to the parents. JMO.

I think about the Noah Thomas case. Pulaski has a tiny department and someone was with the parents as I recall.

 

[ConcernedCitizenID]

I for one, believe this was no accident and that Deorr was dead before they even made it to camp. jmo

Yep, yep, yep.

 

[ConcernedCitizenID]

SABBM

So, in a way, JM and VDK have no one to blame except themselves for the negativity surrounding them -- imo.

Off-topic, but it amazes me how much people post on sm.

I agree with you. Even on some of the more obscure "Help Find DeOrr" Facebook pages, the ones that don't have much traffic or comments, there always seems to be a comment from one or two of the family members (no one in particular). It's like, in a collective effort, the entire family is scouring Facebook for places to comment and dispel any negativity towards the family. It has nothing to do with Little DeOrr, but EVERYTHING to do with protecting the Mitchell / Kunz family names.

 

[Rayemonde]

Even if not a sheriff LE, maybe someone from state police? I mean, surely there was someone with LE or SAR with them those first days. What if they had found Deorr? They would want immediate access to the parents. JMO.

I think about the Noah Thomas case. Pulaski has a tiny department and someone was with the parents as I recall.

That's good to know. I read somewhere that the parents weren't allowed to search within the search zone (standard procedure apparently), so yeah, maybe they had someone with them to enforce that too.

 

[Purplepixii]

Thanks so much for the 2 links! Unfortunately, the first link is a statement made by Jessica's boyfriend's father (DK) about her losing her job. It doesn't even come from Jessica. Was she even fired? Do we know with certainty or is everyone just assuming he's telling it like is?

The second link, again, is a letter from Jessica's boyfriend's father, Dennis Kunz, who fires Klein and states in his letter:

Mr. Klein's irresponsible and false statements have resulted in Jessica being terminated from her job...

Again, her boyfriend's dad is talking on her behalf. I'd bet money that if Jessica was fired, or suspended, she most likely received a letter from her employer stating the terms of her firing or suspension and the specifics. If not, I'm pretty sure her employer would have a copy of some documentation for her file. Out of fairness to everyone, I'd like to see some documentation before believing Dennis. As a juror, I would expect the same, and if not available, I would disregard it completely.

I think this is something important enough for Chelsea or Nate to f/u on. Perhaps Chelsea could outreach to JM to see if she would share the notice she received from her employer with the specifics to prove this actually occurred, when it occurred, and the reason given (even if it's generic). Was she fired for something "Klein said specifically?" Was it from media attention in general (to include SB first, then Vilt, then Klein statements?)

If Jessica is unwilling to share any documentation that this happened, then perhaps it didn't occur or it didn't occur the way it has been stated in MSM by her boyfriend's father?

Otherwise, someone could always outreach to her employer to verify the basic facts.

Just my thoughts.

Ok you got me there TxJan - I completely get your point! I, perhaps stupidly, hadn't thought to question the statement re JM's reason for dismissal - that will teach me! :blushing:

 

[TxJan1971]

There has been some FB chatter from her former coworkers that she was fired because she wasn't showing up for work. I can totally see that happening. "I'm looking for my son, I can't come in today." Things like that, I bet. Also, before Jessica disabled her FB page, she had placed some extra security on it - and before she did that I saw where she listed her employment as started, I believe, sometime in November. She very well could have still been in her probationary period at work and they ended up letting her go because she did not meet expectations.

I put out an email to Chelsea to see if she would investigate and get back to us. I think it warrants investigation/confirmation/documentation. That way we can discuss it as a fact or as a sideshow.

 

[Rayemonde]

To those of us who think DeOrr was never at the campsite alive, do you think his parents took his body there to dispose of it, or do you think he was dead and buried before the parents even set off on the trip?
And what makes you think he was never at the campsite alive? I think he was probably never at the store alive, but was at the campsite.

 

[TxJan1971]

Ok you got me there TxJan - I completely get your point! I, perhaps stupidly, hadn't thought to question the statement re JM's reason for dismissal - that will teach me! :blushing:

No need to blush! I'm blushing myself because I got myself on that one! LOL I kept thinking it was the attorney spouting off about JM losing her job and had a long post about that and while reading it back one last time before hitting send, I realized it was the boyfriend's dad saying it, not the attorney!!! LOL See how we learn?

Now I come back to read/find out there was FB chatter it may not be true at all! I'm glad I asked CB to investigate and try to rule that in as fact or fiction. That's why we need to discuss everyone's thoughts/opinions - weed out the fact from the fiction and then everyone can make better informed "opinions." (It works this way in the jury deliberation room, too. Folks think they believe one thing until someone calls something to their attention and then you have a mass exodus to the other side saying, "well, if I woulda known that I woulda....")
Teamwork, guys... teamwork is what it's all about.
Carry on
Find Deorr