ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #24

[DatelineFan]

It wasn't treated as a crime scene at the beginning. Folks were free to come and go. None of the four POIs were tested for drugs or alcohol (that we know of; I'd like to be wrong on this), no vehicles were impounded, etc. Did LE search through their trash, did LE check their bags and go through their belongings, did the parents have proper food, drink, diapers, and clothing for DeOrr, were the POIs movements monitored? Who knows... I get the impression that it was treated primarily as a lost child case and nothing else for at least the first two days, which would have been a crucial time to collect evidence. In my opinion, it would have been prudent for at least ONE law enforcement officer to have been collecting evidence from the get-go. I understand search and rescue would have been the absolute number one concern, but it would not have hindered the search efforts to have had one person simultaneously looking for "other" clues. I'm not trying to criticize LE. It's a small town and people do get lost in the wilderness on occasion - I can understand why they thought it was nothing more, but I feel they were a bit naive in being so trusting of these parents. I guess I don't think they were being very skeptical at the beginning. Obviously this is just my opinion (and maybe I'm wrong; I'd be elated to find out that LE WAS collecting evidence from the get-go).

Do you have a link stating that all of this didn't happen? It sounds like a lot of people don't think LE has common sense.

 

[desert-blue]

Do you have a link stating that all of this didn't happen? It sounds like a lot of people don't think LE has common sense.

No links - just the absence of anything ever being mentioned along those lines. I'm quite certain no vehicles were impounded. Again, I hope I am wrong. I do think LE has common sense. But no charges have been made and it took over six months just to name them suspects. I think JM and DK have been extremely misleading to LE.

 

[DatelineFan]

I don't think LE tells us about their strategies. I think there's a lot we don't know about that first day.

 

[desert-blue]

I don't think LE tells us about their strategies. I think there's a lot we don't know about that first day.

Honestly, I hope you are right!

 

[desert-blue]

http://klewtv.com/news/local/missin...-suing-private-investigator-hired-to-find-boy

MONDAY, MARCH 7TH 2016

LEADORE, ID — New information now on a missing Idaho toddler; Deorr Kunz Junior's grandfather is suing the private investigator he hired to help find the boy.

Dennis Deorr Kunz is seeking damages for breach of contract and defamation. This lawsuit comes one day after the family fired the PI.

I wonder where he got the money to hire an attorney to sue the PI that he couldn't afford?

 

[TeaTime]

Why do people think that LE didn't treat this as a possible crime from the beginning?

I think LE did treat this as a crime as well as a lost child report from the start. This is what they are trained to do - look beyond the statements of the reporting persons.

 

[TeaTime]

I wonder where he got the money to hire an attorney to sue the PI that he couldn't afford?

More than likely the attorney will be paid on a contingency basis, taking a fee from whatever damages are recovered from the suit against Klein.

 

[jessie]

We, as the public, don't have the benefit of knowledge gained in interviews with family and others.
I don't use f/book nor twitter I only click links provided here which I believe are official, so I have no idea what the vox populi say re: this case and the family, and really I'm not interested.

I have followed other missing children threads though and if anyone can watch and listen to William Tyrrell's FP interview and just compare their agony and heartbreak! I have never got the same feeling from JM & DVK - maybe I'm being far too critical, but That is how it must be to lose a child. My Opinion Only.

 

[desert-blue]

More than likely the attorney will be paid on a contingency basis, taking a fee from whatever damages are recovered from the suit against Klein.

I think it's the same attorney that is representing VDK as well. I wonder if he is working pro bono as VDK's counsel. Normally I'd think a retainer would have to be paid for potential criminal defense, but I guess you never know. I'm sure you're right about the other case (against Klein) being a contingency case, though - I wasn't thinking clearly - that makes sense.

 

[Rayemonde]

JMO
LE is forced to not release a lot of information because they have to protect the investigation in case it goes to trial. So I think what happens in cases like this is people try to learn as much as possible about the case and begin to review other information that is available.

So long as people are very careful and treat anything they find with a huge grain of salt there can be helpful information that is found elsewhere.

When trying to analyze the situation I think most people add up all the information they find and it helps people to decide on things.

LE is very limited to be able to provide us with much but Klein shared some of his information and some of it was much more than LE provided.
We can choose whether or not to believe whoever we want to believe and we have to take all information with a grain of salt.

For Kleins information IMO I do think he had no reason to lie about certain things so I found some of his specific information helpful. Like the cadaver dogs hitting on equipment and things like that.

The main LE statements that helped me were when LE was adamant about the inconsistent stories and LE thinks the parents know where the boy is.
That is huge to me because it means they know everything about what happened. I choose to believe LE.

So as we begin to try to put things together it all gets put in its spot.

We do not know what happened but things center around people not being truthful. When someone is not truthful then it means they are trying to hide something.

In order to try to figure out what they are hiding then speculation into theories begin to happen and that is ok IMO so long as they are stated as just theories. Theories based on things we have learned from all sorts of places.

And that is where SM can be helpful. Some small pieces of information can be found out and if it is true then it helps make other things begin to make sense. The problem is deciding on which pieces of information may have some truth to it and which is not.

Some choose to throw away all of it but others try to decide if there is any truth in some of the information. Its really not a lot different than what LE does when they gather all their information. Its just that the public has a lot less available to work with. LE has certain tools they can use to help make sure their information is accurate. The public doesn't have that luxury so people have to make up their own mind if any information has any truth or basis to it.

I guess one of the points I am trying to make is that certain opinions and theories are based on a lot of research that was done. Not everyone is just throwing out a wild guess. Some of the theories and opinions have been carefully weighed against a lot of research that was done by gathering all types of information and listening to all the interviews and reading all the articles that are available. And of course trying to keep in mind what little actual facts are known.

Added all together there can be some good theories that are well thought out and carefully considered.

:goodpost:

 

[TxJan1971]

http://klewtv.com/news/local/missin...-suing-private-investigator-hired-to-find-boy

MONDAY, MARCH 7TH 2016

LEADORE, ID — New information now on a missing Idaho toddler; Deorr Kunz Junior's grandfather is suing the private investigator he hired to help find the boy.

Dennis Deorr Kunz is seeking damages for breach of contract and defamation. This lawsuit comes one day after the family fired the PI.

FWIW, I haven't checked recently, Nate or EIN's previously posted the lawsuit hadn't been filed yet, but that was a couple days ago IIRC. We need to check to confirm that a lawsuit has actually been filed yet.

 

[Rayemonde]

Doesn't the fact that someone was able to wander in and scatter cremains in the reservoir, and the fact that someone was able to break into a vehicle and steal and EMT bag, indicate that the scene was not secured quickly enough?

I hope that LE would have left an officer with the parents 24/7 from the beginning, but they wouldn't have the resources to do that, would they? Being such a tiny sheriff's department, I can't imagine them immediately allocating an officer to trail the family when time was of the essence to find a lost child alive...

 

[ConcernedCitizenID]

Doesn't the fact that someone was able to wander in and scatter cremains in the reservoir, and the fact that someone was able to break into a vehicle and steal and EMT bag, indicate that the scene was not secured quickly enough?

I hope that LE would have left an officer with the parents 24/7 from the beginning, but they wouldn't have the resources to do that, would they? Being such a tiny sheriff's department, I can't imagine them immediately allocating an officer to trail the family when time was of the essence to find a lost child alive...

Hmmm...I suppose, but you must remember that they were searching for an ALIVE missing toddler, not his deceased body, so they really had no reason to secure the scene. In fact, they needed all the people they could muster to find Little DeOrr. Time is of the essence in regard to a missing child.

 

[ConcernedCitizenID]

You don't think law enforcement can think in more than one direction at once?

Oh, no, I totally think LE in general can. But this particular LE agency is very, very small, with little staff. I don't think they have enough manpower to send their employees in more than one direction at once for one case. Especially because this is not the only case they have (or had at the time it happened) to work on.

 

[MistyM]

It wasn't treated as a crime scene at the beginning. Folks were free to come and go. None of the four POIs were tested for drugs or alcohol (that we know of; I'd like to be wrong on this), no vehicles were impounded, etc. Did LE search through their trash, did LE check their bags and go through their belongings, did the parents have proper food, drink, diapers, and clothing for DeOrr, were the POIs movements monitored? Who knows... I get the impression that it was treated primarily as a lost child case and nothing else for at least the first two days, which would have been a crucial time to collect evidence. In my opinion, it would have been prudent for at least ONE law enforcement officer to have been collecting evidence from the get-go. I understand search and rescue would have been the absolute number one concern, but it would not have hindered the search efforts to have had one person simultaneously looking for "other" clues. I'm not trying to criticize LE. It's a small town and people do get lost in the wilderness on occasion - I can understand why they thought it was nothing more, but I feel they were a bit naive in being so trusting of these parents. I guess I don't think they were being very skeptical at the beginning. Obviously this is just my opinion (and maybe I'm wrong; I'd be elated to find out that LE WAS collecting evidence from the get-go).

i believe they had drones out for any possible 'future' criminal prosecution.

 

[MBK]

FWIW, I haven't checked recently, Nate or EIN's previously posted the lawsuit hadn't been filed yet, but that was a couple days ago IIRC. We need to check to confirm that a lawsuit has actually been filed yet.

No, but even if it's not, it sure doesn't hurt to check out the Idaho Repository to see what's been going down over the years. It's a super resource.

 

[pepelepolecat]

It wasn't treated as a crime scene at the beginning. Folks were free to come and go. None of the four POIs were tested for drugs or alcohol (that we know of; I'd like to be wrong on this), no vehicles were impounded, etc. Did LE search through their trash, did LE check their bags and go through their belongings, did the parents have proper food, drink, diapers, and clothing for DeOrr, were the POIs movements monitored? Who knows... I get the impression that it was treated primarily as a lost child case and nothing else for at least the first two days, which would have been a crucial time to collect evidence. In my opinion, it would have been prudent for at least ONE law enforcement officer to have been collecting evidence from the get-go. I understand search and rescue would have been the absolute number one concern, but it would not have hindered the search efforts to have had one person simultaneously looking for "other" clues. I'm not trying to criticize LE. It's a small town and people do get lost in the wilderness on occasion - I can understand why they thought it was nothing more, but I feel they were a bit naive in being so trusting of these parents. I guess I don't think they were being very skeptical at the beginning. Obviously this is just my opinion (and maybe I'm wrong; I'd be elated to find out that LE WAS collecting evidence from the get-go).

Oh, I don't know that none of this happened. I would imagine that le did its due diligence. At least, I'd like to think it did.

 

[courtneyb]

So the county Sheriff saying “We know that the parents aren’t telling the truth, and they know that we know that they’re lying,” Bowerman said. “I know that they know where the little boy is and what happened to him.” isn't official enough?

http://www.idahostatejournal.com/me...cle_b4d359f2-0b13-55d2-9aec-178b359a5683.html

That's my question as well, though I guess you don't owe anyone any answers.

If having LE publicly state that the parents are lying and that they know where their child's body is isn't enough for one to speculate in anything resembling the direction of placing any sort of blame or judgment on the parents, then the purpose of this forum for that person changes. Speculating based on what LE has said about the suspects inevitably involves placing blame while exploring the different scenarios with those named suspects, due to the nature of the info LE has released regarding the parents' lying. Reserving judgment is different than attempting to disprove or dispute any version of events that casts the parents in a negative light. And also questioning LE's competence and information. And it turns into what appears to be defending the parents, while hiding it behind an "I'm (rightly) not judging them (unlike you all) until....what? They confess and are convicted? What if they are charged while still professing their innocence?

This is the place to discuss what could have happened, and most here do a great job of entertaining possibilities that are different than what they think happened, but some here seem to have their minds made up and won't budge. When one is faced with a valid point that doesn't fit in line with what they believe, and that person is unwilling to bend what they are willing to consider, and retreats to something akin to a pedestal and defaults to an "I'm not judging until I hear something definitive from LE.", then this DISCUSSION forum becomes the wrong place for such a person to be.


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[Purplepixii]

Can you help me out? I just googled her name and Idaho Falls (and even added lost job) but it's not coming up with anything more specific. I can't remember who first announced (or where) that JM lost her job. I'm trying to refresh my memory but the articles coming up for me are articles that have nothing to do with that. Does anyone have any more specific link or links? TIA (I'll try Bing) (Also, is there a specific article that your post is speaking about or just in general)

http://www.localnews8.com/news/private-investigator-cadaver-dog-proves-there-was-a-death/38307992

http://m.localnews8.com/blob/view/-...o-Klein-Investigations-and-Counseling--1-.pdf

 

[SweetT]

I wonder where he got the money to hire an attorney to sue the PI that he couldn't afford?

As someone posted earlier in the thread, very possibly could be income tax return money. That makes sense.