ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - # 25

[Arnie M]

Me too, I could see JM covering for GGP or GGP covering for JM, but I couldn't see VDK covering for GGP, VDK may however cover for JM

I love your logic skinnycat . Thanks !!!!!

.

 

[Rayemonde]

I've always felt that Vernal comes across as more emotional than JM. He actually cried tears in their very first interview. I think he still knows what happened and took part in a coverup, but he seems to be feeling more guilt/ remorse/ fear of being caught than J. I was surprised when Klein said J might crack and tell the truth but V never will. Unless she does it simply to get herself off the hook - I can't see her conscience eating away at her or anything like that.

I'm also still not getting any "battered woman" vibes from the latest interview. In fact, if there is any domestic violence I can imagine it going the other way. But who knows, you never can tell how people behave behind closed doors.

 

[skinnycat]

Did nobody else notice VDK's for lack of better wording I'm going to say co-dependence, JM is cold and shut off VDK leans over puts his head on her shoulder, shows compassion and she sat there like an ice princess.

I think VDK looks to JM for approval, if I'm good will you love me,

 

[Susjay]

Personally, I think they're just throwing ggp under the bus again, like they have from the start. If this whole charade was to protect him, why do they keep throwing him under that bus? Vernal says it's not his fault, he left DeOrr with a responsible adult... And as far as he knows, there was no accident... And even Jessica doesn't chime up to say a word in GGP'S defence. They just leave the implication hanging.

Plus, IMO these two don't even care about giving their own son a decent burial, so why on earth would they care so much about protecting ggp? They show no grief, anguish or anger in relation to their son's disappearance... Just evasiveness and lies. I really can't see them caring enough about GGP to do all this for him, when they don't even particularly care about their own child. All they care about is themselves.

JMO.

Thanks Rayemonde. This is why I wondering whether GGP's health has deteriorated to the point where he may not be able to defend himself against any allegations.

 

[mommylicious]

Came here to share my thoughts but you guys are awesome and have it covered!! I agree that VDK came across as more sympathetic and sincere than JM. That lady is so shut off emotionally. Not smiling at the memory of how he'd try to cheer her up? No anger or frustration that he hasn't been found and people have "given up"? No indignation at being asked if you harmed him? No tears for your baby boy? Her eyes aren't even red rimmed from crying scenes that were cut/off camera.

Even if they were covering for GGP, shouldn't there be something?? At least VDK mustered some gumption when he talked about not giving up and having things he still wants to do with his son.

 

[Dee10]

OT - I have always liked this article about lying for those interested.

http://www.businessinsider.com/police-detective-reveals-how-she-can-tell-suspects-are-lying-2012-4

 

[neesaki]

Extended version of interview:
http://m.localnews8.com/news/exclus...nded-interview-with-chelsea-brentzel/38478346

I came away with a totally different take on it, why on earth didn't they just show the full version the first time? :gaah:

 

[pepelepolecat]

Hypothetically speaking, if DeOrr had snuck out of the tent or Suburban in the middle of the night and drowned in the creek, what would you say their punishment should be? I'm talking if he was sleeping where they were but somehow managed to sneak out undetected until they woke up and found his body in the water? No alcohol or other substances involved.

But why oh why would they have ever covered that up?

 

[ninij9]

What was dad talking about when he went off into his "politics and the FBI" rant? For a minute I thought we were back at the Malheur Wildlife Refuge.

I took it to mean, if your so damned sure we did this too our child, where's your proof? The LE and FBI would love to speak with you.

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[ninij9]

I get a different take on the interview. I feel like they are damned either way at this point. Showing alot of emotion would make them "theatrical" therefore liars. Showing anger would make them look bad to those that want them humble. If Jessica looked like SH**, everyone would comment on her meth mouth (I've heard that one right here). I have been on the fence forever and cringed when I heard about the interview. Absolutely anything that they do would be seen in a bad light as so many have their minds made up.

I did see something though that I found uneasy with. Jessica blinked every time she was asked directly if she hurt or knew where her child was. Now I'm mind of uncomfortable and I have trouble making eye contact with people, so it may be nbd. Now Vernal never hesitates. Never averts his eyes. Etc. Perhaps Jessica is covering for GGP. Perhaps there are skeletons in the family closet. (Happened in my own family with beloved Gramps).
Anyway, just giving perspective from a fence surfer.

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[neesaki]

I get a different take on the interview. I feel like they are damned either way at this point. Showing alot of emotion would make them "theatrical" therefore liars. Showing anger would make them look bad to those that want them humble. If Jessica looked like SH**, everyone would comment on her meth mouth (I've heard that one right here). I have been on the fence forever and cringed when I heard about the interview. Absolutely anything that they do would be seen in a bad light as so many have their minds made up.

I did see something though that I found uneasy with. Jessica blinked every time she was asked directly if she hurt or knew where her child was. Now I'm mind of uncomfortable and I have trouble making eye contact with people, so it may be nbd. Now Vernal never hesitates. Never averts his eyes. Etc. Perhaps Jessica is covering for GGP. Perhaps there are skeletons in the family closet. (Happened in my own family with beloved Gramps).
Anyway, just giving perspective from a fence surfer.

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This has been in the back of my mind all along.

 

[ninij9]

I haven't got time to watch the interview (my bestie is getting married today so it's all systems go!) but just quickly - has anyone changed their views as a result of what was said last night?

I'm feeling more comfortable now with my decision that they didn't do it. But, I think Jessica might have an idea about someone else.

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[Openminded]

IIRC, the sheriff said that GGP tended to answer questions the way he felt the questioner wanted him to answer them. That's an indicator to me of a slipping memory. Trying to compensate for what you don't remember. And he could easily have gone more downhill mentally since that time. He may not remember what happened eight months ago and didn't have good recall when he was questioned.

*IF* he really was made responsible for some period for a very active toddler, they should have known better. Not everyone is capable of that level of care in their mid-to-late 70's -- mentally or physically -- even for a short while. Their child was their responsibility and they should not have relied on an elderly man with supposed mental and physical issues to take care of him while they did whatever. Even without any health issues, that might have been too much for him. Some people at that age could handle it but very many could not.

My vote has always gone to an accident but I'm not yet convinced it was on GGP's watch although it certainly could have. But I don't believe he had the ability to carry out a cover-up. And I don't know why there would have even been a cover-up in that case -- except that they left their child with someone not capable of taking care of him and they knew that.

 

[Trident]

I'm feeling more comfortable now with my decision that they didn't do it. But, I think Jessica might have an idea about someone else.

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I think they all look guilty.

:cow:

 

[Beezneez]

Just a couple of things before I head out the door. JM seemed critical of LE and the searchers, saying that she was up there a thousand times more than they were. DVK once again praised the search efforts. I don't get that at all.
Jessica, I don't think you're going to find your son, whose name is DeOrr, at the local Walmart. No need for the 'crazy mom' act.

I caught that too. She was up there way more than LE. VK always had LE searching with him.
The only sign of affection between them was when he said "sorry sweety" after talking over her.
He doesn't know what happened, he is pretty sure JM knows & is too heartbroken over the whole thing to act on it.
When Klein was talking about the family being in denial, he was talking about VK. IMO Klein also stated that JM is almost ready to talk, but VK isn't. At first that just made me think she pulling out the domestic violence card & he was saying absolutely not.
It is crazy how are brains interpret tiny bits of information & fill in the rest with our assimumptions.
Another telling moment, for me is when VK was saying that Deorr could do no wrong, especially in his eyes.
VDK is the only one that talks about a future with DEORR, JM talks about his burial & looking for him at Walmart.
I was talking to a local friend last night, who aided a search for Deorr at the end of summer. I didn't realize that she had gone up until last night.
She has gone from being a staunch supporter of the parents to having some doubts. She doesn't know what to think happened, but according to her-
The parents genuinely looked hard & werent steering people away.
The parents seemed exhausted, mentally and physically.
I am really going to need to see the evidence that comes out during a trial to convince me. All I see right now are a lot of people kicking up dust.

 

[ninij9]

I think they all look guilty.

:cow:

I know, most do. I can't exactly explain how my gut feelings work though. Everyone hates them. I just don't see it from that perspective. I find them to be immature and unprepared for the huge tsunami wave of scrutiny that came their way. They may not be parents of the year, but I don't see that as making them killers. They may have other things to hide and it got all tangled up here. I have been troubled by GGP from day one, and not a single thing has helped alleviate my uneasiness about him. Not. One. Thing. I had seen a picture of him at a different campsite with family members and he had a portable O2 tank on his hip and he was tall and straight and very capable looking. Not frail, feeble, demented. And is the main reason why so many are dismissing IRs weird childlike creepiness because it fits with the scenario that Mom and Dad murdered their child and hid his body?

As many times as I've been right I have also been wrong. I will fully own this and be on here with salt and ketchup munching on my hat in full view of you all if I am. Lol.

My eyes are on the other POI (if it wasn't a case of wandering off).

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[ConcernedCitizenID]

Just watched both interviews. Here's my first impression before reading any of your comments:

Why in the world did Chelsea put this whole thing on Klein's back? Guess what, Chelsea? LAW ENFORCEMENT has come outright and said that they think the parents were lying! Chelsea should have addressed THAT, instead of making it look like big, bad, meanie Klein is the source of all that has gone wrong in this case. People have quit looking for Little DeOrr because Klein announced he thinks he's dead? Give me a break!!!
:gaah:

Also, in the extended interview, the first time Vernal really shows a change in emotion (pitch of voice changes and the tears begin) is when he talks about how bad it's been on SM. Meanwhile, Jessica can talk about her son being "deceased, or whatever" and not bat an eye. Incredible! Klein was right when he said he and his team were totally and completely floored by the sheer cold-heartedness in these two.

I'm thoroughly and entirely disgusted.
:rant:

 

[Mickshawn]

Just watched both interviews. Here's my first impression before reading any of your comments:

Why in the world did Chelsea put this whole thing on Klein's back? Guess what, Chelsea? LAW ENFORCEMENT has come outright and said that they think the parents were lying! Chelsea should have addressed THAT, instead of making it look like big, bad, meanie Klein is the source of all that has gone wrong in this case. People have quit looking for Little DeOrr because Klein announced he thinks he's dead? Give me a break!!!
:gaah:

Also, in the extended interview, the first time Vernal really shows a change in emotion (pitch of voice changes and the tears begin) is when he talks about how bad it's been on SM. Meanwhile, Jessica can talk about her son being "deceased, or whatever" and not bat an eye. Incredible! Klein was right when he said he and his team were totally and completely floored by the sheer cold-heartedness in these two.

I'm thoroughly and entirely disgusted.
:rant:

I wish Chelsea had posed the question: How do you feel about the fact that LE, the FBI and Klein are all in agreement that you have not been truthful and absolutely know what happened and where your child is?

 

[Paulas88]

I've got a bad feeling now after watching that, I think the way there prepared to criticise LE and LE efforts there 100% confidant DeOrr body's never going to be found and there going get away scot free IMO.

In the USA sadly murder - the Body = No Prison and SB or SP near enough told them that in an article not so long ago.

Also why are they choosing to speak out NOW?

What's happened to make them feel safe enough to speak NOW?


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What's bothering me about THIS interview, is VK' push for the abduction theory STILL. That's what originally sit off my hinky meter. I'd be down with the possibility that DeOrr was missed and is still within the 3 mile search range, but (IMO) there's absolutely, ABSOLUTELY, no possible inkling that a kidnapper drove up the treacherous uneven road with an idea that there was a child to nab. Then, hid behind a tree, to await the chance opportunity where he/she could dash in, without anyone aware (including the 2 dogs on the trip) and hauled *advertiser censored** out of there, all within the 17 minutes that the parents were searching for minnows. And, if the parents think someone kidnaped him.... why would he be alive??? It's a FAIRYTALE folks, including the chicken nuggets VK is still unconsciously buying for his son.

Another thing that bothered me was, JM' going on about how often they were up at the CG searching (much more than the LE apparently, so she said) with her reference to being on the ground and moving things!!!! This worried me..... Could that have been slippage, and they've moved DEORR???

How come LE, FBI and two PI' have come to the same conclusion. Why did JM/VK fail nine poly' between them? Oh, yeah, I forgot, it's a conspiracy.... the law enforcement
agencies have hit a wall, and can't find DeOrr, so decided they'll just blame the parents... I get it now!!! DeOrr DID NOT get abducted, that's off the table... so where is he?? Where is DeOrr? Pray God he wasn't moved.

 

[Jo in Calif]

05:19
SB: And they turned and looked at their son and asked him if he wanted to stay with Grandpa or go with them, and he said, “Grandpa,” and started walking towards uh Grandpa. So, mom and dad go down over the creek with…with the friend. They start doing some fishing. Grandpa says he’s watching the child. He’s looking at him momentarily. He looks away, when he looks back the child is gone, and he assumes that the child has gone back down to mom and dad, because it’s just over…just over the hillside, just a little ways.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=12122056

They go down over the creek with the friend, they start doing some fishing. Going fishing is not interchangeable with going for a walk or going exploring, its going fishing. Did either of them have fishing poles?