ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - # 25

[haven71]

In trying to narrow down what is most likely what happened here is JMO on it.

JMO
Going to rule out a real honest accident with no culpability at all. Because if they were not responsible for the boys death in any way and it was a real accident then the boy would be there when they called 911.

So throwing that one out altogether.

For the other theory about giving the boy away. That one did have some possibles like mentioned already. Lack of emotion and other things.
But I think I am going to throw that one away because of 2 main reasons.
1-Someone else would have to be willing to commit illegal adoption and go along with this plan. I don't think anyone would be willing to do it.
2-If someone really wanted the boy then they could have pursued a legal adoption instead of this huge public ruse.

So I am going to throw that one out for now too and put it second after the last theory.

The last theory which seems most plausible is some sort of manslaughter or worst case murder where one of them had a hand in the boy ending up dead. It may not have been intentional but somehow they feel they would get arrested for his death if anyone knew the real story of what happened so they had to hide the boy.

It just seems most plausible based on what we know. I think the give boy away theory is what we hope happened because it is the only one where the boy would still be alive. We can keep that in our list because that truly would be the best outcome. IMO it has to be 2nd on the list though.

I just thought of something that made my heart race a little. What if JM and VDK did not outright kill him, or dispose of him after an accident, but actually PLACED him somewhere far away on the mountain and just left? Or maybe they left him, after a toilet training accident and went for a drive to "teach him a lesson" but when they came back he was gone?

Maybe crazy but so are some of the other theories.

 

[Jackeee]

I also don't remember hearing if IR saw DeOrr alive. Is it possible he only saw an illusion of him? Like he was told he was sleeping or something?


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I have thought about this so many times. The power of suggestion. IR is told that DeOrr is sleeping and whoever tells him that, nods in the general direction of where he might be, tent, camper, truck. IR has no reason to doubt or challenge the parents and just goes about the reason for him being there in the first place, camping, fishing. He has nothing other than a polite interest in the whereabouts of a 2 almost 3 year old. IMO

 

[erinp]

I keep feeling like there's something being missed with the scent dogs going to the reservoir then losing scent. Your post & the one you replied to flipped a switch on. What if JM/VDK (or anyone else for that matter) had blood or some other sort of fluids/mess on them from Deorr after whatever happened. I know many camping trailers have showers in them, & many camp grounds are equipped with public bathrooms that include showers. I'm not certain if they had access to either of these types of showers, however, & even if they did, they may have felt it would be way too obvious/risky. For example, in a camper equipped with shower/toilet, there is a waste tank that all the water drains to. If you shower, that tank has to be emptied out sooner/more often because they only hold so much. I think it would be suspicious if SAR/SB etc. noticed the waste tank quite full even though they just arrived the night before. In my experience the tanks have been a translucent white color, so if they tried showering to rid blood, I think it'd also be obvious looking at the translucent tank that there was something going on. Maybe that's why they bought the feminine supplies-so they could say that was what any blood was from, who knows.

But back to what I'm really thinking (agh to my ADD) what if one of them went down to the reservoir to 'clean up'? Could that be why the dogs were tracking the scent there but then losing it? Because someone carried the scent there, & left it In the reservoir where they washed it off themselve(s)? Also would explain why his scent tracked to there but he was not found in or near the water. I know it's possible he's stuck under something, but SB seems confident that isn't the case.

This is is probably all pretty far fetched & probably doesn't actually make sense, but at this point, what does??

perhaps when someone hauled up the road a half a mile to "get a signal", they in fact went the half a mile to the reservoir and washed off.........

 

[haven71]

Ha Ha, I wish someone would come up with a better term than leakage. I cringe every time.

LOL Too many Huggies commercials I reckon!

 

[erinp]

I just thought of something that made my heart race a little. What if JM and VDK did not outright kill him, or dispose of him after an accident, but actually PLACED him somewhere far away on the mountain and just left? Or maybe they left him, after a toilet training accident and went for a drive to "teach him a lesson" but when they came back he was gone?

Maybe crazy but so are some of the other theories.

There was a case like that in Perth, Australia in 2012... a woman left her toddler on some rocks at the beach then rang the police and the dad to say the baby had been kidnapped or the like. She did it for attention or because she was mad at the dad for not taking her phone calls from memory. The baby of course drowned while she directed the police elsewhere. It was horrific

http://www.news.com.au/national/gemma-gaye-killeen-claims-sons-murder-was-a-bid-for-attention-gone-wrong/story-e6frfkp9-1226352942179

 

[Lillahazel]

I just thought of something that made my heart race a little. What if JM and VDK did not outright kill him, or dispose of him after an accident, but actually PLACED him somewhere far away on the mountain and just left? Or maybe they left him, after a toilet training accident and went for a drive to "teach him a lesson" but when they came back he was gone?

Maybe crazy but so are some of the other theories.

Maybe they placed him somewhere after an "accident" alive or passed and were hoping if he was found they could use the elements as an excuse for his "accident".


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[Hippie Heart]

I disagree. To say LE has said that the parents know more than they are saying drastically and totally minimizes what LE has said. The sheriff has said, unequivocally, that the parents know that he knows that the parents are lying and that they really know where their son is. (Also, the sheriff said that the top expert on polygraphs at the FBI told him that the parents are lying. I did not do a direct quote because, obviously we don't have a direct quote from the FBI. We have a paraphrase from the sheriff. I happen to believe that he is stating the truth about what FBI said.)

If you are looking for a court of law (and for people in the court to abide by all the rules and laws that dictate their determinations) this isn't that. What I understand, and why I am here, is that this is an online sleuthing site where posters are allowed to share their opinions about the prime suspects as long as they stay in within TOS.

BBM - Thank you!! :clap::tyou:

 

[neesaki]

IMHO, you want the public to find you relatable, you don't get a facial piercing.

I have to agree with you on that one, it's like no worry, no grief... it's just party time ... What kind of mother does piercings like that anyway? I guess I'm old fashioned? JMO

 

[neesaki]

What is twisted and disturbing is that there is a missing two year old and yet the topic is about JM fb status. That within it self is twisted.

Speaking of priorities.....if my son was missing and a whole group was dedicated to posting screen shots of my status updates I'd be upset that the topic was me and not my son so I'd make them private so the topic stayed on my missing child. You act as if this wasn't on Nancy Grace or that Nate wasn't getting his face out.

But of course that's just imo [emoji3]

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The only time I visit FB is on public pages regarding missing person's cases. So I do have to wonder why a mother of a missing child wouldn't take advantage of that avenue... How about instead of using FB for posting stupid selfies maybe she could use it for finding her missing baby boy. Just a thought.

 

[DatelineFan]

I have to agree with you on that one, it's like no worry, no grief... it's just party time ... What kind of mother does piercings like that anyway? I guess I'm old fashioned? JMO

<modsnip>I have a close friend with that piercing. She's a great mother of three. This is completely irrelevant to the case, and highly subjective.

ETA - Piercings don't tell what kind of parent one is.

 

[Blue Skies]

I don't claim to have a clue what happened, but I tend to guess accidental death. I can't wrap my head around a pre-planned abduction scenario for a few reasons. But for anyone who can, if JM or they both gave DeOrr away and he's out there, what do you make of the parents pushing that he was abducted and that people should be looking for him. You'd think they would worry that someone looking might see him and the gig would be up! They are the only ones who haven't ruled out abduction. You'd think instead they would be saying he must have wandered and succumbed to the elements so that people wouldn't be on alert to look for him. .


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For me, I think maybe something more along the lines of something that was supposed to be a staged abduction or even just a staged child gone missing (wandered off, etc.) and it didn't turn out the way JM and/or VDK planned, as in something went wrong. I'm sure there are some holes in this theory as well, but I've always just found their behavior SO odd, like beyond lying, like totally faking the whole thing (especially in the first interview.)

VDK was WAY too excited in that first interview. In my mind, I can't correlate that level of excitement with any scenario other than something he had planned and pumped himself for. Does that make sense? Like, nobody would be that excited if it were an accident they were covering, nor if they truly had no idea where the child was.

Ok, I said I would never say it again but "Balloon Boy's" Dad is the only person I can compare VDK to. In that case, I believe he had the kid hiding in the attic and said he took off in a homemade balloon. I didn't even really follow that case after the initial news coverage so there is no reason that it should stick out in my mind. I think the Dad did it for attention (was hoping for a reality show if I remember correctly - there are some idiots out there)in that case.

I think maybe VDK had Deorr somewhere and they thought they would recover him alive and well, then something went wrong and he was injured/killed/really abducted (take your pic).

I want to reiterate that I am not trying to excuse their actions in any way. If something like this happened, they are just as guilty as if they harmed him in my opinion. This is not my only theory of what could have happened either. I think a lot of the scenarios mentioned here are very real possibilities. This is just something that I've thought from day one.


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[Blue Skies]

I thought "I'm like crazy mom in the supermarket" was really weird to say. So Jessica, mothers like Beth Holloway or Patty Wetterling are "crazy" because they will never stop looking for their children? I just don't see how looking at every child you see out in public when your child is missing makes you crazy. It sounds like Jessica cannot emphasize with mothers of missing children. It just bothered me that she would describe something like that as being "crazy". If the mother of a missing child was physically grabbing kids and accusing them of being her son and daughter, I would find them extremely sad and you would see the clear toll that her child's disappearance has had on her her. But I feel like using the word "crazy" to describe the actions of the mother of a missing child to be really offensive.

Yes, I think it was very fake and the fact that she felt the need to say this at all speaks volumes IMO.


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[Blue Skies]

She acted like someone who was jokingly calling herself a helicopter mom or something. There was a casualness that is completely at odds with having a missing child. I hope she wasn't expecting a lighthearted giggle from the audience, "Oh, you silly grieving mom!"


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Exactly! Perfect description!


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[ReadySet]

I keep feeling like there's something being missed with the scent dogs going to the reservoir then losing scent. Your post & the one you replied to flipped a switch on. What if JM/VDK (or anyone else for that matter) had blood or some other sort of fluids/mess on them from Deorr after whatever happened. I know many camping trailers have showers in them, & many camp grounds are equipped with public bathrooms that include showers. I'm not certain if they had access to either of these types of showers, however, & even if they did, they may have felt it would be way too obvious/risky. For example, in a camper equipped with shower/toilet, there is a waste tank that all the water drains to. If you shower, that tank has to be emptied out sooner/more often because they only hold so much. I think it would be suspicious if SAR/SB etc. noticed the waste tank quite full even though they just arrived the night before. In my experience the tanks have been a translucent white color, so if they tried showering to rid blood, I think it'd also be obvious looking at the translucent tank that there was something going on. Maybe that's why they bought the feminine supplies-so they could say that was what any blood was from, who knows.

But back to what I'm really thinking (agh to my ADD) what if one of them went down to the reservoir to 'clean up'? Could that be why the dogs were tracking the scent there but then losing it? Because someone carried the scent there, & left it In the reservoir where they washed it off themselve(s)? Also would explain why his scent tracked to there but he was not found in or near the water. I know it's possible he's stuck under something, but SB seems confident that isn't the case.

This is is probably all pretty far fetched & probably doesn't actually make sense, but at this point, what does??

No showers at this campground, in fact no water at all. There could have been a shower in the camp trailer.

Speaking of the camp trailer, my experience has always been that little ones love to go in the campers, trailers, RVs of the other campers at their camp site. They beg to play in them. Parents have not referenced little Deorr doing that at all. Maybe no big deal....but they haven't said anything about anything he was doing at the campground...other than the playing with his cars, or was that even them? It has seemed odd to me that they didn't describe his demeanor; was he running around, happy, cranky, playing in the dirt, playing by the rock, sitting at the picnic table, sitting on GGP's lap, collecting sticks or rocks, playing with the rumored dogs, splashing in the creek, wanting to play with the fishing poles, what? Maybe there was something and I missed it?
JMO, it bothers me to the extent that I wonder if he was cranky, crying, misbehaving, in time out, out of sight? The parents' did not paint a picture of little Deorr at the campground, JMO.
I'm going to go back and listen to their descriptions again and see if I missed something.

 

[giagreen]

The only time I visit FB is on public pages regarding missing person's cases. So I do have to wonder why a mother of a missing child wouldn't take advantage of that avenue... How about instead of using FB for posting stupid selfies maybe she could use it for finding her missing baby boy. Just a thought.

I've honestly have never seen a selfie of Jessica nor have I seen her post one sinse DeOrr has been missing. Except for the ones of her with DeOrr. And it doesn't matter if it's a missing persons page or not the comments don't stop and that's been sinse day one.
If it wasn't an issue and wrong I doubt that LE would of taken time out of their day to address it.


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[Arnie M]

I just thought of something that made my heart race a little. What if JM and VDK did not outright kill him, or dispose of him after an accident, but actually PLACED him somewhere far away on the mountain and just left? Or maybe they left him, after a toilet training accident and went for a drive to "teach him a lesson" but when they came back he was gone?

Maybe crazy but so are some of the other theories.

Maybe they placed him somewhere after an "accident" alive or passed and were hoping if he was found they could use the elements as an excuse for his "accident".

I think those are very good possibilities .... it would not take much time to drive a mile or two and let the body roll down a steep embankment ... it would look like something that could have happened if the child really did wander away.

That is why I think the next search will be in the surrounding areas , not the campsite.

 

[Blue Skies]

I can't edit my post, but I want to add that I think they may have had Deorr hidden alone or with another individual when something happened. Also, I DO NOT believe any type of adoption (legal or illegal) occurred.


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[Blue Skies]

I don't think it's a negative thing that her son cheered her up when she was depressed. I have severe depression, especially in the winter and my 4 year old has cheered me up when I'm having a bad day. He'll come in and jump on me and say "hey mama! Turn that frown upside down!" And I laugh every time and we tickle and giggle and I feel better and pull myself together. All mothers have moments of feeling irritated or depressed, so its not fair to hold those basic human emotions against a person. Painting a picture of an angry home life based on thay statement is just us speculating. She may have simply been trying to describe what a loving boy he was, how empathetic, even at a young age and honestly, since she is distressed (even for selfish reasons) she may miss those moments of having someone loving her unconditionally. On national TV, she had to say *something* nice about her son and his attention to her is probably what she misses the most. Selfish, cold people still want to feel love and I'm certain that baby Deorr worshipped her, as babies do to thier mothers. She sure hasn't been feeling the love lately!

There is nothing wrong with a child cheering a parent up; however, there is something VERY wrong when a a child feels the need to cheer a parent up or that he/she is the one responsible for the parents mood/emotions. It is not fair to burden a child with such things. It's dysfunctional and it can cause some pretty extreme relationship and psychological issues for those children when they become adults.

This is all IMO and MOO.


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[neesaki]

<modsnip> I have a close friend with that piercing. She's a great mother of three. This is completely irrelevant to the case, and highly subjective.

ETA - Piercings don't tell what kind of parent one is.

Well, as I said I'm old fashioned. I guess that's not acceptable here? The fact is, it's more than that, I can't imagine anyone wanting to put a hole in their lip to insert a piece of metal when it's entirely unsanitary, dirty, and prone to infection. What's the point, vanity?

<modsnip>

 

[Dee10]

I think those are very good possibilities .... it would not take much time to drive a mile or two and let the body roll down a steep embankment ... it would look like something that could have happened if the child really did wander away.

That is why I think the next search will be in the surrounding areas , not the campsite.

Welcome on-board...yes, that is the logical conclusion to search outside of the previous search area IMO...given the parents are not telling the truth according to LE.