ID - DeOrr Kunz, Jr., 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #26

[CoverMeCagney]

I believe someone mentioned this in a prior thread, but IF the other campers didn't know anything about Deorr's disappearance until after SAR and LE got there, then something is definitely wrong IMO. Wouldn't they have heard the shouts and screams of the four campers searching for Deorr, calling his name? Especially if they went up to the reservoir to look and you can bet that would be one of the first places other than the stream you would search IMO. And if the parents really searched, there is no way that they didn't know about the other campers. JMO.

Bingo!

 

[KayCherry]

Bingo!

I thought of that as well, but in the sense that Lil DeOrr would've been crying and screaming - right? You know how 2 year olds are.... I doubt that DeOrr was alive and well at the campsite. My gut just tells me that he may have been in the truck etc., and explained away that way, sleeping/playing/eating etc.

 

[Mickshawn]

Is it possible that Jessica drove from Idaho Falls to the campground with GGP and IR?
VDK drove with Baby DeOrr?

 

[MBK]

I could see VK not knowing the other campers were there since it seems they wouldn't have driven by that camping area to get to theirs. But I would have driven around the other campsites to see if there were other campers. They needed help...right away. An hour at least...that's a long time.

BBM. Well, ostensibly. But I doubt they WANTED help. (They needed help, yeah, they really needed help . .. but starting . . . lord knows when . . . let's just say waaaay before the fateful camping trip.)

 

[1&2&3]

I'm not sure IR and GGP rode home together. Seems I remember reading GGP went home soon after as he was overly tired. No link, just something I remember. Then, how would IR get home? From IR last interview with Klein, didn't IR say he hasn't seen GGP since.

Good question. I would expect him to have gone home with GGP. He went along, I suspect, to keep an eye on GGP with his health problems.

After Deorr came up missing, it would really seem that GGP needed someone to be with him on the drive home as I imagine he was very upset. And, he may have been extremely upset if Deorr disappeared on GGP's watch.

My opinions only.

 

[Hatfield]

I could see VK not knowing the other campers were there since it seems they wouldn't have driven by that camping area to get to theirs. But I would have driven around the other campsites to see if there were other campers. They needed help...right away. An hour at least...that's a long time.

Not just help. More importantly the other campers could have their child!!

They obviously did not go looking for the child up near the reservoir.
Or really at all for that matter.

 

[Beezneez]

Good question. I would expect him to have gone home with GGP. He went along, I suspect, to keep an eye on GGP with his health problems.

After Deorr came up missing, it would really seem that GGP needed someone to be with him on the drive home as I imagine he was very upset. And, he may have been extremely upset if Deorr disappeared on GGP's watch.

My opinions only.

In that line of thought, I'm sure there were lots of other family from IF. It seems to me that a family member or friend would insist on driving GGP back. I'm sure IR sat in the back, not quite sure what to do.

 

[misscarolinec]

Not just help. More importantly the other campers could have their child!!

They obviously did not go looking for the child up near the reservoir.
Or really at all for that matter.

Absolutely!!

 

[persimmon]

Well, we kmow that IR did not suspect the parents from his second interview. He stated he was surprised to learn they had been named suspects. When asked why, he said something to the effect of it seems like nobody really had any idea what happened. He further stated that he believed DeOrr had simply gone missing. I don't think he was lying.

Although that second, must hyped interview with IR didn't deliver much information, it always served to further confuse me because IR genuinely had no idea anything was amiss. This case is so frustrating on so many levels, but how one of the four adults could notice nothing suspicious really really complicated things for me. He was there! Granted he may have been fishing at the creek when the alarm was sounded, but he was right there and he must have helped search. Likewise, this would suggest that any conversation he may have had with GGF revealed nothing of a coverup or suspicions regarding the parents.

 

[KayCherry]

I would have loved to have been a fly on the window for that ride home....

Couldn't have said it better - amen

 

[desert-blue]

I'm not sure IR and GGP rode home together. Seems I remember reading GGP went home soon after as he was overly tired. No link, just something I remember. Then, how would IR get home? From IR last interview with Klein, didn't IR say he hasn't seen GGP since.

I thought they went fishing together again after the incident. I think IR just meant he hadn't seen him during the winter (probably because it's not fishing season)... I could be mistaken but that was my understanding.

 

[desert-blue]

Is it possible that Jessica drove from Idaho Falls to the campground with GGP and IR?
VDK drove with Baby DeOrr?

I might be confused but I think that Klein talked to the person where they filled up with diesel on the way up and said that that person saw DK and JM (but he didn't recall if there was a child). Does this sound right or am I mistaken?

 

[erinp]

I wish they'd release the other 911 calls. Out of all of the red flags flying in this case, the 911 calls seem to be the ones calling out to me the most, but there are some other things I'd like to speculate on as well.

JM tells the 911 operator Deorr has been missing an hour. If they were responsible for DeOrr's disappearance, why pick an hour? I'd think someone who wanted to look innocent would want 911 to assume they called nearly immediately. Was she just caught off guard? Had they been rehearsing their story for an hour? If JM and VK were trying to get their stories straight, I doubt either one even thought about what 911 might ask. If VK was asked the same question during his 911 call, what's the likelihood of their times being even remotely close if they weren't standing right next to each other while making the calls? If they were standing right by each other, there wouldn't be a need to make 3 calls.

So now I'm going to jump back to this mythical timeline and a ton of rambling. SB said they left to go to town around 10:30 or 11 am. I'm sure based on time-stamped receipts, this checks out, although the departure time would be up in the air. So we have 30-ish minutes to get to the store, so at the latest, let's say 11:45 arrival. 20 minutes or so at the store. So we're hovering around noon. Another 30 minutes back to camp and we're at 12:30-ish. JM called 911 around 2:30 pm. DeOrr had been missing an hour. So 1:30 pm. So we've got an hour of time unaccounted for. But the way the story was told, it sounded like JM and VK pretty much dumped DeOrr off on GGP as soon as they got back from the store. And they were exploring for 50 yds, I mean 10 minutes. I think that was the biggest screw up in that first interview. I think VK was going to say 50 minutes, which would line up almost perfectly with the timeline of events. They should have stuck with it. Why did it matter how long they left DeOrr with a "responsible adult"? Why was she so quick to correct VK for that one statement when she let him run the show the rest of the interview? Why was that time important to her?

How long DeOrr Jnr was missing for is one of those big mysteries about the case and most likely one of the things that differs each time the parents tell the story to law enforcement. Out of their own mouths, we the public have heard two different stories (JM tells 911 he's been missing an hour, VK says in that first interview that they were gone 10 minutes and they'd searched for him for 20 minutes in a dead panic then called search and rescue). There is a big difference between an hour and twenty minutes.

I think you're right, it seems likely he was going to see they'd been exploring for 50 minutes, not 50 yards, because unless it was thick jungle, you'd still be able to see the campsite and DeOrr from 50 yards away. Sometime between the 911 call and the interview, the parents decided it was important to communicate DeOrr had not been missing for as long as we all first though. I honestly find it hard to believe anyone would take 40 to 50 minutes to search for a 2 year old in a remote camping spot near multiple water locations (creek and reservoir) before calling 911. So the gap must be that they were gone for a lot longer than they want us to believe. Perhaps the sensitive issue is where they went and why and what were they doing?

 

[erinp]

I've got another question I'm hoping someone who has a better memory than me can answer. I have read a few times in these threads that search and rescue took either an hour, or at other times until 4pm, before they got to the campsite to start searching. Does anyone have a link where that information was communicated?

In the first interview the parents gave, when talking about the "rumour" about the man with the filthy bawling kid in the black pickup truck in Leadore, VK says that it was him but not at 6pm Friday but rather earlier in the day when they all went down to the store. But the reason he offers for why it couldn't have been him with Deorr at 6pm that evening was in part because "we were with still with search and rescue until a quarter to 4 that afternoon". I don't understand that comment. What that has to do with whether they were in Leadore at 6pm I don't know. But didn't S&R not even arrive until around a quarter to 4 or thereabouts, so what does he mean by that?

 

[TxJan1971]

I've got another question I'm hoping someone who has a better memory than me can answer. I have read a few times in these threads that search and rescue took either an hour, or at other times until 4pm, before they got to the campsite to start searching. Does anyone have a link where that information was communicated?

In the first interview the parents gave, when talking about the "rumour" about the man with the filthy bawling kid in the black pickup truck in Leadore, VK says that it was him but not at 6pm Friday but rather earlier in the day when they all went down to the store. But the reason he offers for why it couldn't have been him with Deorr at 6pm that evening was in part because "we were with still with search and rescue until a quarter to 4 that afternoon". I don't understand that comment. What that has to do with whether they were in Leadore at 6pm I don't know. But didn't S&R not even arrive until around a quarter to 4 or thereabouts, so what does he mean by that?

First 911 call was at 14:22


Klein Investigations and Consulting There were two more questions being the date and time stamp at the Stage Stop - we will not release that as it is evidence in the time line.
The second question was the first reponders there which the answer is one and one half hours after the first call came in. All in approx.
4 • January 11 at 2:23pm
https://www.facebook.com/KleinInvestigations/posts/937132659702652

07:38
VDK: (interrupts Jessica)
It was me but they claim it was at 6:00 that evening and I…we were still with Search & Rescue until, what (looks to Jessica) a quarter to four?

07:46
JM:
Yeah. From…

07:47
VDK: (interrupts Jessica)
We…we never … we hadn’t left the camp since 1:00 that afternoon, so it’s just a lot of hearsay…and...(visible gulp)

Link in Media thread - parents interview July 13, w/ Nate Eaton

 

[MBK]

In the first interview the parents gave, when talking about the "rumour" about the man with the filthy bawling kid in the black pickup truck in Leadore, VK says that it was him but not at 6pm Friday but rather earlier in the day when they all went down to the store. But the reason he offers for why it couldn't have been him with Deorr at 6pm that evening was in part because "we were with still with search and rescue until a quarter to 4 that afternoon". I don't understand that comment. What that has to do with whether they were in Leadore at 6pm I don't know. But didn't S&R not even arrive until around a quarter to 4 or thereabouts, so what does he mean by that?

At this moment, it wouldn't surprise me at all if VK was there with Deorr at the store at 6 pm on Friday, a filthy, bawling Deorr who had been hidden all day, god knows where. I don't know. Can LE swear on a stack of bibles that they knew the whereabouts of the 4 all day long, from when they arrived to . . . . late in the evening?

 

[Lillahazel]

Well, we kmow that IR did not suspect the parents from his second interview. He stated he was surprised to learn they had been named suspects. When asked why, he said something to the effect of it seems like nobody really had any idea what happened. He further stated that he believed DeOrr had simply gone missing. I don't think he was lying.

Although that second, must hyped interview with IR didn't deliver much information, it always served to further confuse me because IR genuinely had no idea anything was amiss. This case is so frustrating on so many levels, but how one of the four adults could notice nothing suspicious really really complicated things for me. He was there! Granted he may have been fishing at the creek when the alarm was sounded, but he was right there and he must have helped search. Likewise, this would suggest that any conversation he may have had with GGF revealed nothing of a coverup or suspicions regarding the parents.

Out of the 3 that were interviewed I put the most value on IR's interviews. It perplexes me trying to fit him into the timeline especially because of what you said about him being surprised about VDK and JM being suspects. To me he comes across pretty nonchalant about DeOrr and the case as a whole which leads me to believe he didn't have much interaction with DeOrr.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[erinp]

First 911 call was at 14:22


Klein Investigations and Consulting There were two more questions being the date and time stamp at the Stage Stop - we will not release that as it is evidence in the time line.
The second question was the first reponders there which the answer is one and one half hours after the first call came in. All in approx.
4 • January 11 at 2:23pm
https://www.facebook.com/KleinInvestigations/posts/937132659702652

07:38
VDK: (interrupts Jessica)
It was me but they claim it was at 6:00 that evening and I…we were still with Search & Rescue until, what (looks to Jessica) a quarter to four?

07:46
JM:
Yeah. From…

07:47
VDK: (interrupts Jessica)
We…we never … we hadn’t left the camp since 1:00 that afternoon, so it’s just a lot of hearsay…and...(visible gulp)

Link in Media thread - parents interview July 13, w/ Nate Eaton

Thankyou! So that means that the first responders didn't get there until around a quarter to 4. So VK must mean they were waiting for them until that time, not that they were with them until that time.

The other fascinating thing out of your link remains the time of the 911 calls. JM was obviously the last one at 2:28 because we heard the time stamp on her released 911 call. So VK must have been the 2:22 or the 2:26 call. But if JM stayed back in camp to try to ring them while he "hauled about a half a mile down the road", then how come VK got through to 911 BEFORE her? Wouldn't she have tried to call straight away and gotten through before VK had gotten to the cell phone sweet spot up the road? Why did she wait for a few minutes? Weren't they in a dead panic?

And one of the other calls must have been GGP who was there with her already. So why did she place the third 911 call when she must have known at least that GGP had called? I do not understand it at all!

 

[ClaireNC]

I've got another question I'm hoping someone who has a better memory than me can answer. I have read a few times in these threads that search and rescue took either an hour, or at other times until 4pm, before they got to the campsite to start searching. Does anyone have a link where that information was communicated?

In the first interview the parents gave, when talking about the "rumour" about the man with the filthy bawling kid in the black pickup truck in Leadore, VK says that it was him but not at 6pm Friday but rather earlier in the day when they all went down to the store. But the reason he offers for why it couldn't have been him with Deorr at 6pm that evening was in part because "we were with still with search and rescue until a quarter to 4 that afternoon". I don't understand that comment. What that has to do with whether they were in Leadore at 6pm I don't know. But didn't S&R not even arrive until around a quarter to 4 or thereabouts, so what does he mean by that?

Don't have a link, but it has been reported that SAR arrived at a bit before 4:00 pm. They stayed and searched straight for 12 hours. So VDK was saying that he was with search and rescue until quarter to 4 the next morning.

 

[erinp]

At this moment, it wouldn't surprise me at all if VK was there with Deorr at the store at 6 pm on Friday, a filthy, bawling Deorr who had been hidden all day, god knows where. I don't know. Can LE swear on a stack of bibles that they knew the whereabouts of the 4 all day long, from when they arrived to . . . . late in the evening?

I'm sure I've read somewhere that it's alleged that IR disappeared at some point during the afternoon? Maybe it was him with DeOrr at the store? Maybe VK and JM had hidden DeOrr somewhere and smuggled him out through Leadore with IR? Was DeOrr bawling because he was with a strange man and was IR buying him candy because how else do you get a toddler that's screaming at you to calm down? (thinking about his thought processes, not necessarily my own). As to motive for all that, well I have no idea