ID - DeOrr Kunz, Jr., 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #26

[Rayemonde]

Do you comprehend the meaning of "paraphrase"? It generally means I am using my own words to relay something. So I don't know why you say I am using "comprehension of questions" as a direct quote.

What I can give you is the following.

Fox4News Posted 8:04 pm, January 25, 2016, by CNN Wire
Bowerman says polygraphs administered to Reinwand and Walton have been inconclusive, but those results were expected because of both men’s mental states.

I have heard this several times. I am unable to give you a link to SB's EXACT words regarding IR's lack of understanding of poly questions.

HOWEVER, is that a big leap from the quote above? Aren't they actually saying the same thing? If SB has stated his expectation of IR's poly to be inconclusive because of his mental state, what else is there to conclude? To me it only means he's not capable of understanding the questions. If you draw other conclusions from it, what are they?

Yes, it is a very big leap. "Mental state" could.mean that he suffers from anxiety or something. Bowerman said "Mental state", not mental capacity.

 

[Karinna]

Were any of the famous 4 ever drug tested? How do LE know there was no drug involvement if those in question weren't tested? I'm not talking heavy duty drugs but maybe they all had a smoke of mj. to relax, excluding GGP perhaps as he has COPD i think and on oxygen?
If JM & VDK went off to smoke a doobie then that could account for inconsistent stories because smoking the stuff affects short term memory and causes memory loss, and if stoned lose track of time. It would also affect poly results on some of the questions because of the guilt factor involved of smoking mj. if illegal there and not really remembering exactly what happened and when?
And lets face it a lot of young & not so young people enjoy a smoke and it's becoming more and more legalised now depending where you live. Don't know about Idaho though?

 

[Karinna]

Yes, it is a very big leap. "Mental state" could.mean that he suffers from anxiety or something. Bowerman said "Mental state", not mental capacity.

Who knows???

 

[Rayemonde]

Sometimes people may join this forum many, many threads into the case, IMO, for quite a few reasons. Maybe just joining WS or had an emergency that kept them from reading up on this case after there were many threads.

When little DeOrr disappeared, my mother was in intensive care for 10 days and then passed away. It was August before I started reading. I gradually got caught up but it was hard.

If I were just joining this forum I would die of old age before getting caught up after this many threads. I don't see why anyone would mind answering questions for a new member of the forum. I joined WS early July in 2008 and never remember it being a requirement of reading every single post before posting or asking a question.

I did, however, skip over a lot of the animal speculation because it was going round and round in circles. (and polygraph circle)

After several months, it is inevitable that things are repeated and old questions are asked again.

Sorry, but I just wanted to comment on this. It took me by surprise. I absolutely love WS and it has become a part of my daily life. When I retired it became something I spend quite a lot of time on.

JMO

Very well said. (modsnip)

 

[Rayemonde]

Who knows???

We don't know. Which is exactly why we should avoid labelling innocent people (people who have not even been named suspects), especially with old-fashioned terms now seen as derogatory. And why we should avoid saying that the sheriff said something he didn't, or stating opinion as fact.

 

[desert-blue]

Were any of the famous 4 ever drug tested? How do LE know there was no drug involvement if those in question weren't tested? I'm not talking heavy duty drugs but maybe they all had a smoke of mj. to relax, excluding GGP perhaps as he has COPD i think and on oxygen?
If JM & VDK went off to smoke a doobie then that could account for inconsistent stories because smoking the stuff affects short term memory and causes memory loss, and if stoned lose track of time. It would also affect poly results on some of the questions because of the guilt factor involved of smoking mj. if illegal there and not really remembering exactly what happened and when?
And lets face it a lot of young & not so young people enjoy a smoke and it's becoming more and more legalised now depending where you live. Don't know about Idaho though?

I have wondered that as well. It hasn't been stated one way or the other.

It's been said they have been cooperating with the investigation. They all agreed to polygraphs - I wonder if drug testing was ever requested by LE and if so, whether they agreed or declined.

 

[Karinna]

We don't know. Which is exactly why we should avoid labelling innocent people (people who have not even been named suspects), especially with old-fashioned terms now seen as derogatory. And why we should avoid saying that the sheriff said something he didn't, or stating opinion as fact.

Who got labelled? Sorry i must have missed that. Didn't SB state somethng about either GGP or IR in connection to the polygraph because of the meds they were taking affecting that?

 

[kammiemc]

I agree. Great post. I use Facebook mainly to communicate with my family and friends. I don't really have time to do much else with it, such as scour all the related pages, reading each comment. I will, however, go check out a page or a post if I "hear" that there is something interesting there. For the most part, it's apparent that a lot of the people posting there frequently are keyboard superheros.... people who feel the thrill of what they perceive as relative anonymity (though the opposite is true), safety (being able to say whatever they want without having to say it to the person's face) and bravery that comes from their misguided beliefs regarding the former two things. These people lose all inhibitions, filters, and grace and are obviously getting a kick out of *finally* getting to say whatever they want to or about whomever they want, without immediate threat of physical retaliation or a face to face confrontation.

I am fairly certain that the vast majority of members, at least on this thread, can differentiate between the garbage on FB and the information that is worth taking a further look at, if for nothing other than to glean a bit of insight into how "the public" feels about the case. Almost everything on FB is at least embellished, or ends up that way, if not flat out untrue. I've read posts before that seem honest and by the time the conversation is filtered through the comments on the post, it inevitably gets bits of untruths stuck in it, and it is a different animal than in the beginning. And, the more people involved and "contributing", the more convoluted things seem to get.

But, I think we are all aware of that.

I so agree with this and what Purple wrote. I am always looking for more info, but take everything I read on FB with a grain of salt. I didn't even read FB for the first few months because the spelling made my eyes cross.

I have read re-read every article and watched/listened to every interview mostly multiple times. (But after several months sometimes I forget exactly which MSM source a bit of info came from.)

To be sure, I believe what I hear straight from SB's mouth. It is what HE has said (and to a lesser extent Klein) that makes me believe that the parents know what happened and where DeOrr is. (And I do believe that. So if that means I am holding a pitchfork, I accept that.)

Heck, if I was so stupid to believe everything I read on FB I would think that the parents were innocent, DeOrr was abducted and all the experts are wrong.


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[Karinna]

I have wondered that as well. It hasn't been stated one way or the other.

It's been said they have been cooperating with the investigation. They all agreed to polygraphs - I wonder if drug testing was ever requested by LE and if so, whether they agreed or declined.

I wouldn't have thought so because initially LE was "solid" i think was the word used that JM & VDK were not under suspicion that we know of and that status of them only changed recently. I have not read anywhere that JM & VDK were drug tested?

 

[ReadySet]

Were any of the famous 4 ever drug tested? How do LE know there was no drug involvement if those in question weren't tested? I'm not talking heavy duty drugs but maybe they all had a smoke of mj. to relax, excluding GGP perhaps as he has COPD i think and on oxygen?
If JM & VDK went off to smoke a doobie then that could account for inconsistent stories because smoking the stuff affects short term memory and causes memory loss, and if stoned lose track of time. It would also affect poly results on some of the questions because of the guilt factor involved of smoking mj. if illegal there and not really remembering exactly what happened and when?
And lets face it a lot of young & not so young people enjoy a smoke and it's becoming more and more legalised now depending where you live. Don't know about Idaho though?

Not legal in Idaho.
The thing is, if your child were missing would you really hesitate to tell LE that you were smoking, just to protect yourself? If you were desperate to find your baby, would you worry about LE knowing you were using pot? And I'm sure it would end up being a non-issue anyway.

 

[Karinna]

I so agree with this and what Purple wrote. I am always looking for more info, but take everything I read on FB with a grain of salt. I didn't even read FB for the first few months because the spelling made my eyes cross.

I have read re-read every article and watched/listened to every interview mostly multiple times. (But after several months sometimes I forget exactly which MSM source a bit of info came from.)

To be sure, I believe what I hear straight from SB's mouth. It is what HE has said (and to a lesser extent Klein) that makes me believe that the parents know what happened and where DeOrr is. (And I do believe that. So if that means I am holding a pitchfork, I accept that.)

Heck, if I was so stupid to believe everything I read on FB I would think that the parents were innocent, DeOrr was abducted and all the experts are wrong.


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And yet JM & VDK are still Innocent until proven Guilty in a court of law as per the constitution. A case against them needs to be proven first and as much as we may not like it, they are afforded due process. And they haven't even been charged with a crime yet.

 

[Karinna]

Not legal in Idaho.
The thing is, if your child were missing would you really hesitate to tell you were smoking, just to protect yourself? If you were desperate to find your baby, would you worry about LE knowing you were using pot? And I'm sure it would end up being a non-issue anyway.

I think that would depend on the penalty for that in Idaho. They were probably in CYA mode anyway regardless of what happened, if they are in fact guilty of a crime?

 

[ReadySet]

And yet JM & VDK are still Innocent until proven Guilty in a court of law as per the constitution. A case against them needs to be proven first and as much as we may not like it, they are afforded due process. And they haven't even been charged with a crime yet.

Legally, they are innocent until proven guilty. But in reality and fact, they are innocent, or guilty. And reality is all that matters for little Deorr.

 

[ReadySet]

I think that would depend on the penalty for that in Idaho. They were probably in CYA mode anyway regardless of what happened, if they are in fact guilty of a crime?

Yes, if they are guilty, I can see them covering up smoking. But if they are innocent, no.

 

[kammiemc]

And yet JM & VDK are still Innocent until proven Guilty in a court of law as per the constitution. A case against them needs to be proven first and as much as we may not like it, they are afforded due process. And they haven't even been charged with a crime yet.

I realize that. I wasn't talking about a court determination. And I don't mean to imply that they shouldn't go through the legal system once charged. I was referring to the fact that I believe they know what happened to their son and where he is as per the very clear determination by the experts in this investigation. Like the FB I!


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[Harley Diva]

I'm still fairly new here(just call me pain in the...newbie :laughing and have only posted a few times. I came in late to websleuths (I think thread 22), like many here I have a very busy life outside the computer. I do the best I can to get caught up on what has been discussed since the last time I was on. As far as the earlier threads, I think I'm going to be really old by the time I get through all those. LOL. Please forgive me if I get off topic or jump back to an earlier post. I am just trying to get on the same page as everyone else. I would like to share a couple thoughts and personal experiences with you regarding earlier posts, instead of quoting them all I will just put them in one post.
1- In Idaho they can & will garnish your wages for debt. In some cases they can & will put a lien on personal property. Depending on the type of debt, i.e. bad checks, you can go to jail. My husband and I had financial issues when we were younger and trying to raise 3 children. Medical bills piled up and wages were garnished. My husband now owns his own business and has placed a lien on property for non payment.
2-When my son was 2 a family member bought him a pair of cowboy boots that were 2-3 sizes to big. He wore those boots everywhere! It was a fight to get him to wear anything else. After a couple months we got tired of the falling and tripping over his own feet so we took them away and put them up (until they fit properly), dealing with the temper tantrums of wanting his boots until memory faded. When he got older we gave them back and he wore them everywhere again until they literally started making sores on his feet and we got rid of them.
3-Kids can be clumsy to the point of hurting themselves on a daily basis. My daughter learned to walk at the age of 7 months and has very little balance. To this day she will trip over her own feet and fall into something. She always had bruises when she was a child. We took in our nephews and at one point ended up in the H&W office d/t his bruising. I explained to them how clumsy he was and after he fell 3 times in our meeting they determined I was right. At one point he fell and hit his head on the table causing a huge bruise and they saw this!
4-My 1 1/2 y.o. daughter went missing once when I went in to use the bathroom. I came back out into the living room and she was gone. I asked my oldest where she was and I got "She went out the door". With my oldest in tow I ran out and started looking. I looked around all the immediate homes, ran to our friends house(5 doors down) to see if she went there out of habit. They came out to help look, we looked around all vehicles and homes. They started knocking on doors as I ran back to dial 911. Elapsed time, no more than 15-20 minutes. When I got back to my house the little old lady next door came out and informed me my daughter was there. Not once did it occur to me to look at the neighbors house! I had the road, many people in & out and the ability to walk along behind the trailers & not be seen in my mind. The neighbor didn't hear us yelling & calling for my daughter because her hearing aids were not in. The biggest worry in my mind is that someone had seen her and picked her up. This entire time, I was forcing myself to remain calm and collected for all those around me especially my other child.

I'm not trying to say I think any of this is what happened in this case, just giving some information for everyone to think about. Kuddos on the difference between the blankets. I hadn't noticed!!

 

[Butler]

I lived in Eastern Idaho for a very long time. I would bet it will be sometime in May before they could really get in for a good search. Especially if they have to dig. While the snow may melt a bit sooner the ground will remain frozen for little longer. Then it will be the mud unfortunately.

Maybe re-hashing is a symptom of the desperation everyone feels to move forward. Wracking our brains to work this all out. I have read every thread since January and it's still confusing to get everything straight because of the moving feast of information that's been a feature of this case. She said, they said, LE said and so on. I know we are all desperately waiting to hear of a breakthrough!
I keep checking the snow depths and local weather online. Does anyone local in Idaho or Montana know how close we might be to a thaw and a search?

BBM - I don't know the snow level today up there but it will be a few weeks before they can get in there for a thorough search.

 

[ReadySet]

Regarding the discussion about reading everything, rehashing, etc. I think we are comparing apples and oranges and chairs and cats. There is a big difference between asking for clarification about the blanket, and asking to be caught up on everything that has happened since September. There is a big difference between asking for a reminder about what SB said about the timeline, and saying that the sheriff said the campers were solid, so they are not suspects.
Just sayin'.

 

[Karinna]

Legally, they are innocent until proven guilty. But in reality and fact, they are innocent, or guilty. And reality is all that matters for little Deorr.

Yes it is important to find out what happened to Deorr and where he is, obviously.

 

[Harley Diva]

I found this link if it helps anyone with snow levels. http://www.nwrfc.noaa.gov/snow/?map_type=current_basin_observed_snow_conditions