ID - DeOrr Kunz, Jr., 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #26

[Butler]

You clearly have a problem with Klein, which is not surprising as what he thinks is not what your friend Mr Browning thinks. This link has been live since March 14, 2016, (in fact I recall it being discussed in a previous thread or early in this thread). Peter Hyatt is a respected Statement Analyst who trains LE and others, his views happen to match those of Mr Klein (& I wouldn't be surprised if Mr Vilt & Mr Bowerman were in agreement too). The post by KIC is new, the published analysis in question is not, and it makes for interesting reading. MOO

And obviously my opinion on this case is different from most on here which seems to warrant personal attacks on me. Do you know Allen Browning? Or are you making a generalization about attorneys? Because he is an attorney, he must be evil? Do you know any attorneys in real life? Are any of them just regular human beings? Or is it just anyone who has an ounce of compassion for this family that is fair game for attacks? It's just so frustrating to come to a public forum designed to discuss case information and to be bullied by those who feel one can post as long as the opinion is the same as the majority. How about we keep the personal attacks off this thread and just discuss the case.

As far as Klein - I do find fault with his methods. IN MY PERSONAL OPINION I think he started out to solve the case and now it's all about proving his theory right and less about finding DeOrr. He said in a pervious statement his new employer (client) told him to not make any public statements and then he does just that. If this link has been out there a whole six days why did Klein even feel the need to make a post about it.

 

[shellbythesea]

My 2 (almost 3) year old is taking a bath right now and singing, "Grown-ups come back..." over and over from Daniel Tiger's Neighborhood. Just reminded me of little DeOrr

 

[haven71]

This may be way out there, but the thought has crossed my mind a few times that perhaps JM and VDK didn't really plan on calling 911 at all and GGPA put his foot down. I think GGPA's 911 call may provide some very interesting insight... JMO.

It must not be too way out there because I've actually presented that possibility before. In glad you see that possibly as a scenario as well. I also wondered if GGP said only that Deorr disappeared, OR something a little odd that could've tipped LE off to a possible accident. If worried about what GGP was going to say or having some sort of disagreement they may have felt pressured to hurry and make their own 911 calls.

Time will tell. I hope.

 

[ReckoningDay]

Looks like an opinion by someone who has made up their mind already. That and Klein's comment a couple of weeks ago stating they would not be making public statements about the case and look, a negative link posted by Klein. Just the fact it comes from Klein makes it suspect in my mind.

Are you still thinking mountain lion? I thought that had been pretty much debunked by now.

 

[zencompass]

I have been reminding myself lately that every day that there is no news - also means that the case is building and building.

I hope and pray it is. Little DeOrr - you will be found!

 

[Midge Montana]

If people are upset with Klein changing up and posting anything about the case, I imagine they must be furious with the parents who have changed it up numerous times.

Again, I don't understand the Klein hate, but maybe I'm just misunderstanding. Others directly involved with the investigation have spoken out about the actions of the parents including the previous PI and law enforcement themselves. I mean, law enforcement has given us a lot of information as to their deception. In fact, SB effectively shut down fundraising efforts to some extent because he didn't want people getting hoodwinked. Yet, why aren't the parents threatening lawsuits against any of them? Just Klein. Likewise, several people are up in arms about Klein saying anything negative about the parents, yet aren't equally as upset at LE for doing the same. Please help me understand that, as I am obviously just not connecting some dots as to the way people feel angry about some but not others.

 

[courtneyb]

When the 911 operator asked JM to hold, she definitely said to someone she was with, "I made the call." That makes me believe that someone (presumably GGP) might have wanting to make sure that she called.


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Isn't that an odd choice of words for any of you? It is to me. I can see saying, "I called them" or "I'm on the phone with them now". But, "l made the call" sounds like it was something spoken of in advance. "the call" makes it sound like it was a THING; something that had been discussed that needed to be done. WHAT call? I wouldn't need to talk about calling 911 enough to where it would be referred to as THE call, first of all. But I could see running around, frantically searching, saying with panic, "we need to call 911, he isn't anywhere!" And then quickly deciding to call. If someone at that point asked what I was doing or who I was on the phone with, I wouldn't say, "I made the call." I'd be in a panic and obviously everyone else there should have been too, and probably would have just said, "911" or similar. Maybe it's just me. But referring to the 911 call as "the call" assigns it more importance and a need to say it was done than in a situation where 911 is the expected call to make.

I wonder if JM thought she was on hold and couldn't be heard during that time.


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[CoverMeCagney]

Just to clear up any confusion and as a timely reminder for those who might be new to the case or who have forgotten, THIS is why most people here have an inkling the parents might have something to do with DeOrr's disappearance:

Sheriff Bowerman, January 2016

"They are being less than truthful. They know something, I just don't know what they know. It causes me alarm. I believe they know where he is absolutely."

Sheriff Bowerman, February 2016

“We know that the parents aren’t telling the truth, and they know that we know that they’re lying. I know that they know where the little boy is and what happened to him.”

 

[ReckoningDay]

Isn't that an odd choice of words for any of you? It is to me. I can see saying, "I called them" or "I'm on the phone with them now". But, "l made the call" sounds like it was something spoken of in advance. "the call" makes it sound like it was a THING; something that had been discussed that needed to be done. WHAT call? I wouldn't need to talk about calling 911 enough to where it would be referred to as THE call, first of all. But I could see running around, frantically searching, saying with panic, "we need to call 911, he isn't anywhere!" And then quickly deciding to call. If someone at that point asked what I was doing or who I was on the phone with, I wouldn't say, "I made the call." I'd be in a panic and obviously everyone else there should have been too, and probably would have just said, "911" or similar. Maybe it's just me. But referring to the 911 call as "the call" assigns it more importance and a need to say it was done than in a situation where 911 is the expected call to make.

I wonder if JM thought she was on hold and couldn't be heard during that time.


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The very same thing jumped out at me. "THE call" is odd!

 

[ClaireNC]

desert-blue
This may be way out there, but the thought has crossed my mind a few times that perhaps JM and VDK didn't really plan on calling 911 at all and GGPA put his foot down. I think GGPA's 911 call may provide some very interesting insight... JMO.

It must not be too way out there because I've actually presented that possibility before. In glad you see that possibly as a scenario as well. I also wondered if GGP said only that Deorr disappeared, OR something a little odd that could've tipped LE off to a possible accident. If worried about what GGP was going to say or having some sort of disagreement they may have felt pressured to hurry and make their own 911 calls.

Time will tell. I hope.

BBM I've also wondered if this could be the case. GGP jumped the gun and made the first call, thereby, forcing JM and VDK to quickly make up a story.

 

[ClaireNC]

Although most believe that the parents do have something to do with DeOrr's disappearance, and have stated such as their opinion, it is also the "opinions" of LE, FBI, and PI's and the polygraph examiners that the parents know what happened to DeOrr and where he is. Personally, I need facts and evidence before I can come to those same conclusions. I've seen none! IMO

Honest question: Don't you think LE would need a little more than just their "opinion" before they name somebody as a suspect and state right out that they know the suspect is lying? That sounds like fact, not opinion, to me. IMO

 

[Purplepixii]

And obviously my opinion on this case is different from most on here which seems to warrant personal attacks on me. Do you know Allen Browning? Or are you making a generalization about attorneys? Because he is an attorney, he must be evil? Do you know any attorneys in real life? Are any of them just regular human beings? Or is it just anyone who has an ounce of compassion for this family that is fair game for attacks? It's just so frustrating to come to a public forum designed to discuss case information and to be bullied by those who feel one can post as long as the opinion is the same as the majority. How about we keep the personal attacks off this thread and just discuss the case.

Why do people who either are, or perceive themselves to be in a minority think that when someone disagrees with them that the person is "bullying" them? That never fails to bemuse & frustrate me :gaah:

My post, although quoting yours, was not a personal attack, nor was it bullying, and having re-read it a number of times I can't fathom where you even got that feeling from. This is a public forum, we can post thoughts and ideas (within TOS) that someone or no-one believes to be true without being ridiculed or bullied. That's what makes WS great - it's a safe, drama-free place to bounce ideas off of each other without the SM insanity.

As far as Klein - I do find fault with his methods. IN MY PERSONAL OPINION I think he started out to solve the case and now it's all about proving his theory right and less about finding DeOrr.

Klein was hired by family to find little DeOrr, IMO his ultimate theory is in line with Mr Vilt's and, to some degree, Mr Bowerman's. Unfortunately due to the weather there is nothing anyone can physically do at the moment to prove/disprove their theories. When the melt comes, I have no doubt that the relevant authorities will be in place ready to put an end to this horrible case, which - lest we forget - is to find a missing child.

He said in a pervious statement his new employer (client) told him to not make any public statements and then he does just that. If this link has been out there a whole six days why did Klein even feel the need to make a post about it.

I don't know if you have access to Facebook but KIC made it clear why they posted today - here it is in case you don't frequent SM:
"Klein Investigations and Consulting We are receiving a tremendous amount of phone calls and emails regarding this blog article. In order to calm our phones down, we posted this.
Like · Reply · 7 · 3 hrs"


(Caveat: I have multi-quoted you. This is to address your points directly, it is not to be perceived as bullying)

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Desert-blue what you say is usually in line with my own thoughts.

I too think GGP was the catalyst for the call (sure would help if they'd get the 911 call times straightened out. And released for that matter--ha!). Listening to the JM's 911 call yesterday I detected something in her voice that I didn't notice so much early on. She sounded upset and scared.

It makes me wonder if there was disagreement by one or all of the 3 parties that called about who should call and/or when they should call. And that perhaps each were thinking of saving their own tail or at least looking less suspicious by making a call.

JMO.

If I remember well, Vernal said in the first TV-interview "they decided to call/make the call/make a call". It seems they had something like a debate before a call was done, by 1, 2, 3 members of the camping event. That says a lot if not all, IMO.

 

[courtneyb]

All just for the sake of making what I think clear..not factual details....
"I got rid of the blankie"
"I got rid of the sippy cup"
"I cleaned the truck"
"I hid the body"
"I made the call"

I can't shake the thought that it sounds like a hasty, frantic to do list.

 

[Butler]

Are you still thinking mountain lion? I thought that had been pretty much debunked by now.

Why do people who either are, or perceive themselves to be in a minority think that when someone disagrees with them that the person is "bullying" them? That never fails to bemuse & frustrate me :gaah:

My post, although quoting yours, was not a personal attack, nor was it bullying, and having re-read it a number of times I can't fathom where you even got that feeling from. This is a public forum, we can post thoughts and ideas (within TOS) that someone or no-one believes to be true without being ridiculed or bullied. That's what makes WS great - it's a safe, drama-free place to bounce ideas off of each other without the SM insanity.




Klein was hired by family to find little DeOrr, IMO his ultimate theory is in line with Mr Vilt's and, to some degree, Mr Bowerman's. Unfortunately due to the weather there is nothing anyone can physically do at the moment to prove/disprove their theories. When the melt comes, I have no doubt that the relevant authorities will be in place ready to put an end to this horrible case, which - lest we forget - is to find a missing child.




I don't know if you have access to Facebook but KIC made it clear why they posted today - here it is in case you don't frequent SM:
"Klein Investigations and Consulting We are receiving a tremendous amount of phone calls and emails regarding this blog article. In order to calm our phones down, we posted this.
Like · Reply · 7 · 3 hrs"


(Caveat: I have multi-quoted you. This is to address your points directly, it is not to be perceived as bullying)

As soon as I post my opinion, which is different than most on this topic, there are responses indicating that I must be blinded by my acquaintance with the attorney, that I must believe in the mountain lion theory which everyone on WS knows isn't true, that somehow I'm incapable of reading, or that I'm stupid.

I'm not blinded, I do not believe a wild animal took this child, I do have FB, and yes I can read. Just try posting a theory in opposition to the majority on any of these topics and you will see. The digs and snark comes out of the woodwork.

I have thick skin and really do not concern myself with what anonymous people on a message board think of me. I just want to know what happened to this child. The facts, not opinion being stated as fact.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Honest question: Don't you think LE would need a little more than just their "opinion" before they name somebody as a suspect and state right out that they know the suspect is lying? That sounds like fact, not opinion, to me. IMO

Me too. If SB hadn't said all that I wouldn't be so sure something's up. And then there's Klein, hired by family to find DeOrr and help prove the parents innocence, and despite that he couldn't / wouldn't / didn't because, he too, came to the conclusion LE have.

The jury-in-my-head is out on Klein, I don't always like they way he does things but I honestly believe he is party to some of the "evidence" that LE has. Even if he isn't I doubt he'd call the parents big fat liars if there was any doubt, especially when you'd think he'd be on their side.

If he was a lawyer out to win a case he might be more minded to sweep any anomalies under the carpet, because lawyers are often less than truthful when defending the accused. Interesting article here basically stating that a lawyer may suspect (or know fine well) their client "did it". Their job is NOT to get all moral and ethical about it, their job is to disprove the prosecution.

http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/representing-client-whom-the-lawyer-thinks-is-guilty.html

 

[Butler]

Of course LE "could" have more but IMOO it doesn't appear they do. And now it seems as though Klein has muddied up the investigation and has embellished any statements previously made by Bowerman which has, IMO, caused some to question EVERYTHING that has been alleged.

:clap:

 

[Jamaica Me Crazy]

Isn't that an odd choice of words for any of you? It is to me. I can see saying, "I called them" or "I'm on the phone with them now". But, "l made the call" sounds like it was something spoken of in advance. "the call" makes it sound like it was a THING; something that had been discussed that needed to be done. WHAT call? I wouldn't need to talk about calling 911 enough to where it would be referred to as THE call, first of all. But I could see running around, frantically searching, saying with panic, "we need to call 911, he isn't anywhere!" And then quickly deciding to call. If someone at that point asked what I was doing or who I was on the phone with, I wouldn't say, "I made the call." I'd be in a panic and obviously everyone else there should have been too, and probably would have just said, "911" or similar. Maybe it's just me. But referring to the 911 call as "the call" assigns it more importance and a need to say it was done than in a situation where 911 is the expected call to make.

I wonder if JM thought she was on hold and couldn't be heard during that time.


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Yep. Me too. "The call."

 

[Jamaica Me Crazy]

Although most believe that the parents do have something to do with DeOrr's disappearance, and have stated such as their opinion, it is also the "opinions" of LE, FBI, and PI's and the polygraph examiners that the parents know what happened to DeOrr and where he is. Personally, I need facts and evidence before I can come to those same conclusions. I've seen none! IMO

You'll see them during the trial.

 

[Little Ol Me]

Although most believe that the parents do have something to do with DeOrr's disappearance, and have stated such as their opinion, it is also the "opinions" of LE, FBI, and PI's and the polygraph examiners that the parents know what happened to DeOrr and where he is. Personally, I need facts and evidence before I can come to those same conclusions. I've seen none! IMO

I feel the same way.
I'm sure SB has good reason to make the statements he has. I'm sure he has certain facts and or evidence that lead him to make the statements he has.
My issue is, I don't know his reasons/facts/evidence.
What we have been told thus far by SB is not enough for me personally to judge them guilty of anything more than what we've told. I just have to follow my own conscience, as I'm sure everyone does.

I have nothing at all against others expressing their opinions, thoughts, and theories about the case. If I did I wouldn't be here.