ID - DeOrr Kunz, Jr., 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #28

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neesaki said:
And if something like that did happen, it's hard to believe that TBC hasn't known about it all along from the very moment she talked to her daughter. Why on earth would they all cover for an accident like that though, it's beyond my understanding. Yes, it's reckless, careless negligence, but it would still be an accident. Look what they're all going through just to cover it up, it's crazy. But I keep going back to Vernal's comment, that they left him with a trusted adult.
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I wonder who he is exactly referring to there? GGP or IR? Or someone else?
 
Karinna said:
I agree murder cases without the body are very difficult to prosecute but not impossible. I guess i was thinking more along the lines of if LE had irrefutable evidence that Deorr was in fact deceased by forensic/dna evidence, then there could be a possibility to prosecute a case for murder. I guess it would have to be along the lines of dna evidence of decomp. or hair of Deorr's with death banding, just a couple of examples i could think of that would certainly indicate that Deorr was no longer alive. But it's difficult to know what evidence there is when SB indicates this case is a homicide, so i guess we wait to see how this all plays out.
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I get so sick and so angry when I think about LE waiting for the right time. If they have evidence to suggest that he is deceased and they are still out there living their lives, getting married, eating ice cream for the love of Pete--I just can't handle that notion. I know I'm not alone on this idea, and I know there is a reason for it. I just can't even fathom any of these people getting away with this for very much longer. I wish someone can come out with the dang nail already.. <rant over>


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Murder without a dead body is hard but what about lack of a living body? It's not like Deorr was an adult who could care for himself if he took off. He's a toddler. Dependent on others.


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Karinna said:
I wonder who he is exactly referring to there? GGP or IR? Or someone else?
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Most likely GGP since, as far as we know, DeOrr's parents had not met IR before the camping trip and would have no reason to consider him a 'trusted adult".
 
TeaTime said:
Most likely GGP since, as far as we know, DeOrr's parents had not met IR before the camping trip and would have no reason to consider him a 'trusted adult".
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That's if they were telling the truth about that? f they were close with the GGP then i would of thought they knew about his good friend IR?
 
I think one could prove negligent homicide but it would require that one put forth the 'myth' that DeOrr disappeared into thin air while the parents were gawking at minnows in the creek, 150 feet away from him and while he was 'sorta' being watched by GGP.

Now that the parents are no longer a couple and mom has moved on from the Kunz family, there is no reason for them to not spill the beans if the other was the culprit. Neither are talking, so they both must have played a big part in DeOrr's death and the disposal of his body.
 
Karinna said:
That's if they were telling the truth about that? f they were close with the GGP then i would of thought they knew about his good friend IR?
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We can only go on what LE tells us they all said, their statements to the press and what we have learned from investigators. They said they left him with GGP. We have learned that they claim to not have known IR before the trip so they can't possibly then say 'we left him with a responsible adult' and mean IR whom they didn't know at all.
 
Donjeta said:
The adoption theory does not seem plausible to me because they were pushing the abduction scenario in the beginning. If you know your child is out and about with someone you don' t want people looking at kids and wondering.
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Not to mention that there is no reason to hide an adoption from the family or to pretend he disappeared on a camping trip to cover an adoption. While I can see JM doing an adoption, I do not see Vernal agreeing - DeOrr was his spitting image and Mini Me.
 
Tssiemer said:
Murder without a dead body is hard but what about lack of a living body? It's not like Deorr was an adult who could care for himself if he took off. He's a toddler. Dependent on others.


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I agree with the sentiment you are expressing and there is some legal precedent prosecuting that way as well. I am far from an expert but I think we all mostly agree the stronger the evidence the better the case. When all the leads and search areas are tapped out I think we will see LE proceed with some kind of murder charges using all the circumstantial evidence that has been collected. The absence of a living body on it's own would be a dangerous thing to pursue too closely as that plays into all kinds of big foot, hill people, or creep in jeep angles for the defense.

As things stand now I imagine charges of 2nd degree murder or involuntary manslaughter depending on what evidence and testimony (from Issac?) says. Murder one seems out of reach with the way things are looking.

No matter what plays out I hope Vernal is hitting the weights HARD, probably a good time to take some Krav Maga also.
 
neesaki said:
And if something like that did happen, it's hard to believe that TBC hasn't known about it all along from the very moment she talked to her daughter. Why on earth would they all cover for an accident like that though, it's beyond my understanding. Yes, it's reckless, careless negligence, but it would still be an accident. Look what they're all going through just to cover it up, it's crazy. But I keep going back to Vernal's comment, that they left him with a trusted adult.
Click to expand...

I have four daughters and two sons. Each of them have a way of letting me know they aren't telling the truth. I have always felt TBC knows something happened and it's a cover up.

Did they lie to her about what happened and say it was an accident or did they deny, deny, deny.

I have seen snaps of texts JM had with her mother. JM has a very dirty mouth.

TBC could be the one to do the right thing for her grandson but will she is the million dollar question? Then again maybe she has nothing to tell because they did keep it between themselves. Doubtful yes but possible yes again.
 
Cardinal47 said:
I have four daughters and two sons. Each of them have a way of letting me know they aren't telling the truth. I have always felt TBC knows something happened and it's a cover up.

Did they lie to her about what happened and say it was an accident or did they deny, deny, deny.

I have seen snaps of texts JM had with her mother. JM has a very dirty mouth.

TBC could be the one to do the right thing for her grandson but will she is the million dollar question? Then again maybe she has nothing to tell because they did keep it between themselves. Doubtful yes but possible yes again.
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She already admitted to failing a polygraph, so there's no doubt in my mind she at the least knows more than she is leading us and LE to believe.
 
neesaki said:
And if something like that did happen, it's hard to believe that TBC hasn't known about it all along from the very moment she talked to her daughter. Why on earth would they all cover for an accident like that though, it's beyond my understanding. Yes, it's reckless, careless negligence, but it would still be an accident. Look what they're all going through just to cover it up, it's crazy. But I keep going back to Vernal's comment, that they left him with a trusted adult.
Click to expand...

I don't necessarily think the fire + oxygen situation points to what actually happened as much as it pokes another hole in the scenario that they want us to believe. It just doesn't make sense to assume, without explicitly discussing who is actually watching the kid, that an elderly relative who requires supplemental oxygen is going to be able to keep up with/track of an active toddler at a campsite next to a creek and a campfire that happened to be burning in the middle of the day in July while the parents went to explore. Or did they go fish? And IR was down stream? Or was it upstream? Oh wait, wasn't IR actually taking JM to a spot to show her where to fish? And Vernal and DeOrr were trailing behind? Ugh!!
 
neesaki said:
And if something like that did happen, it's hard to believe that TBC hasn't known about it all along from the very moment she talked to her daughter. Why on earth would they all cover for an accident like that though, it's beyond my understanding. Yes, it's reckless, careless negligence, but it would still be an accident. Look what they're all going through just to cover it up, it's crazy. But I keep going back to Vernal's comment, that they left him with a trusted adult.
Click to expand...
I was wondering about that, did he say we left him or I left him? I found that Vernal actually said "He was left with a trusted adult and when I came back he was gone."

Why not "we?"

EDITED TO CORRECT: He said he was left, not I left him

http://www.ktvb.com/news/local/idaho/deorr-kunzs-parents-deny-harming-their-son/78531935
 
IDTater said:
I don't necessarily think the fire + oxygen situation points to what actually happened as much as it pokes another hole in the scenario that they want us to believe. It just doesn't make sense to assume, without explicitly discussing who is actually watching the kid, that an elderly relative who requires supplemental oxygen is going to be able to keep up with/track of an active toddler at a campsite next to a creek and a campfire that happened to be burning in the middle of the day in July while the parents went to explore. Or did they go fish? And IR was down stream? Or was it upstream? Oh wait, wasn't IR actually taking JM to a spot to show her where to fish? And Vernal and DeOrr were trailing behind? Ugh!!
Click to expand...

I know, they've told so many different stories I can't keep up with them anymore. I don't think they can keep up with them anymore, thus a brand new version aka as new lie follows the last one.
 
boston5 said:
I get so sick and so angry when I think about LE waiting for the right time. If they have evidence to suggest that he is deceased and they are still out there living their lives, getting married, eating ice cream for the love of Pete--I just can't handle that notion. I know I'm not alone on this idea, and I know there is a reason for it. I just can't even fathom any of these people getting away with this for very much longer. I wish someone can come out with the dang nail already.. <rant over>


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I imagine it would be pretty torturous in your mind, to know your guilty and feel the weight of LE closing in. The pressure and paranoia, always watching your back, trying to keep your stories and lies straight. Trying to keep up appearances... That would drive me insane
 
Hey. Whatever tortures the people responsible more I'm all for.


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I wonder......What could possibly get either or both of the parents to talk and say what really happened...What causes people to crack? Thoughts?
 
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