ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #4

[Cardinal47]

I can't find the source at this time, but I read that the body would have surfaced by now if he was in the water. Correct?

I read somewhere three weeks. That would be this Friday.

 

[persimmon]

Same here. I can imagine a little toddler trying to make it through the underbrush, but not being able to because everything is too tall and scratchy for him. And I can imagine a little one becoming very frustrated because it's too hard to walk and flopping down.

I have a feeling that happened to little DeOrr. Later, when nobody came to rescue him, he tried walking again and went in the opposite direction of where people were looking for him. A little guy stumbling around, lost, and in camo - it would be very hard to see him unless you already knew where to look. My hunch is he succumbed to the elements.

My next guess is the water.

I don't rule anything out yet, but I'm doubtful of a lion, wolf, or human attack.

Please let him be found soon.

Thank you to all the parents who provided their insight. I had such an over protective mother, I never had an opportunity to wander off but I tend to think I would have sat down and cried instead of wandering further.
Assuming he stayed on a footpath and there were only so many paths leading to each of the few destinations...his parents would have passed him as they came back to camp. It has also been established he did not accidentally fall into the toilets and I assume that footpath would end at the toilets. Just thinking out loud about possible routes DeOrr might have taken in his journey.
I too hope he is found soon. Losing a child must be the worst of fates that any human could suffer.

 

[*JMO*]

Again, this makes it sound like IR was definitely at the scene and not off the site fishing or otherwise occupied. (just for clarification):

Over the weekend Reinwand’s name was widely publicized on social media, leading to Bowerman confirming the detail to EastIdahoNews.com

“Yes, he was at the scene,” Bowerman said in an email. “He’s a personal friend of grandpa’s for about five years. We are treating him no differently than the family, he has been questioned numerous times, and has been to the scene with me.”
http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/07/sheriff-family-friend-not-a-suspect-in-deorr-kunz-case/

Not trying to :deadhorse: but it almost seems like his presence was played down in the original description of events. That just raises more questions in my mind of the original account.

I still feel that the baby wandered off into the water. But I feel there may be some important parts of the account that are missing. Perhaps from fear of appearing that neglect or lack of supervision was an issue, perhaps based on some prior experiences or not wanting to open themselves up to criticism.

 

[starfire]

It has been reported in these threads that little Deorr lived with his parents and his paternal GF (not the GGF who was camping). I assume then that the paternal GF is very familiar with Deorr.

An inconsistency that bothers me is in the video interview, the dad says that Deorr is "small for his age but he moves pretty good". In this article, little Deorr's paternal GF says (BBM): "If he's in the water up there he was taken up there. He cannot walk on level ground without falling down. His little, short legs they can't walk up hill, he can't walk on level ground. He would have fallen and if he would have fallen he would have been crying. He didn't get up there by himself," DeOrr Kunz said.

http://www.ktvb.com/story/news/loca...andfather-believes-boy-was-abducted/30321903/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwM1oG3z358

Which is it? Little Deorr could move pretty good or he could barely walk on level ground?

 

[Cardinal47]

Again, this makes it sound like IR was definitely at the scene and not off the site fishing or otherwise occupied. (just for clarification):

Over the weekend Reinwand’s name was widely publicized on social media, leading to Bowerman confirming the detail to EastIdahoNews.com

“Yes, he was at the scene,” Bowerman said in an email. “He’s a personal friend of grandpa’s for about five years. We are treating him no differently than the family, he has been questioned numerous times, and has been to the scene with me.”
http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/07/sheriff-family-friend-not-a-suspect-in-deorr-kunz-case/

Not trying to :deadhorse: but it almost seems like his presence was played down in the original description of events. That just raises more questions in my mind of the original account.

I still feel that the baby wandered off into the water. But I feel there may be some important parts of the account that are missing. Perhaps from fear of appearing that neglect or lack of supervision was an issue, perhaps based on some prior experiences or not wanting to open themselves up to criticism.

See that's the part that makes me question if they were there when the LE arrived? Grandpa and the caregiver.

Were they there when the police arrived or did LE take them back to the campground after interviewing them?

 

[ClaireNC]

One question I have is regarding the polygraph. LE has stated that the parents were voluntarily tested. I have also read that "some" family members offered but who they were was not specified. If anyone beside the parents were tested I am not aware of it.

Has anyone read that all 4 parties at the campsite had polygraphs or were only the parents tested?

The articles seem to indicate that the parents were the only ones given polygraphs. Here are some quotes:

"The sheriff also stated that at this time he does not consider the parents to be suspects in the child's disappearance. He confirmed they did take a polygraph test but didn't know when or if the results of the test would be released to the public."
http://www.localnews8.com/news/new-details-on-search-for-deorr-kunz-jr/34281340

From the Sheriff's office: "The family of DeOrr has continued to cooperate with law enforcement and has volunteered to take polygraphs, which is common in these types of investigations." https://www.facebook.com/LemhiCountySheriffsOffice?fref=nf

"Sheriff Lynn D. Bowerman said in the statement that family members have cooperated and volunteered to take polygraphs for the investigation." http://www.kboi2.com/news/local/DeOrr-Kunz-Missing-Idaho-317566701.html

"According to investigators, Kunz Sr. and Mitchell have offered DNA samples and are willing to undergo lie detector tests." http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=35519816

"In an email to EastIdahoNews.com, Bowerman confirmed Deorr’s parents, Deorr Kunz Sr. and Jessica Mitchell, took lie detector tests but the sheriff did not say whether they passed or failed.
Kunz and Mitchell volunteered to take the tests. They told EastIdahoNews.com they believe their son was abducted and they want to remain focused on finding Deorr." http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/07/lemhi-sheriff-on-deorr-kunz-we-do-not-suspect-foul-play/

In talking about the Reinwand, this is what the sheriff's office said: “Yes, he was at the scene,” Bowerman said in an email. “He’s (been) a personal friend of grandpa’s for about five years. We are treating him no differently than the family, he has been questioned numerous times, and has been to the scene with me.” http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/07/sheriff-family-friend-not-a-suspect-in-deorr-kunz-case/ No mention of the polygraph.

 

[persimmon]

I cannot answer that question but I believe that the family lived with the paternal grandfather who is quoted in the article. I will look for the article to quote this belief.

 

[renarde]

That's what I have always thought but without any word from the store clerk it's hard to make an assessment. Sigh.

I wonder how many times Nate from East Idaho News has tried to talk to the store clerk. He seems like the persistent type.

The store clerk seems important as she may have been the last non-person-of-interest to see him that day. It sounds like the dad was in agreement that he was seen at the store, just at the wrong time.

The store clerk's account is important.

 

[TheTruthWillOut]

I know one thing. If a child went missing on my watch (even if it was a mix-up) I would be shoulder to shoulder with the parents looking for him. I assume parents are still at/near the scene searching.

I guess LE/Parents could have ordered him home and keep a low profile. But why?

ETA: A question....do we know if *any* people other than the four adults we know about already were anywhere near the camp site?

 

[Inthedetails]

I know one thing. If a child went missing on my watch (even if it was a mix-up) I would be shoulder to shoulder with the parents looking for him. I assume parents are still at/near the scene searching.

I guess LE/Parents could have ordered him home and keep a low profile. But why?

Who are you referring to? If you mean Great-Grandpa, it's been revealed that he is not in good health.

If you mean G-Grandpa's friend, well, have you seen the interview? I can't see how he would be a help or comfort at all.

 

[desert-blue]

One problem with that theory is that according to this article the family drove to the campsite the morning that DeOrr disappeared. http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/07/deorr-kunz-disappearance-a-timeline-of-events/ "Friday July 10, Deorr Kunz Jr, his father, mother, great-grandfather, and a family friend travel 120 miles from Idaho Falls to Timber Creek Campground in Leadore." So, why would DeOrr and his father be at the store the night before? The family lives in Idaho Falls, which is about 120 miles from where the store is in Leadore.

I really wish the store clerk would agree to an interview.

If they drove up Friday, why was little Deorr so filthy dirty at the store? They would have just barely arrived at the campsite when they set out to drive to the store in Leadore. Nothing makes much sense.

 

[TheTruthWillOut]

@Inthedetails. Sorry yes IR.

 

[catswhiskers]

It has been reported in these threads that little Deorr lived with his parents and his paternal GGF (not the GGF who was camping). I assume then that the paternal GGF is very familiar with Deorr.

An inconsistency that bothers me is in the video interview, the dad says that Deorr is "small for his age but he moves pretty good". In this article, little Deorr's paternal GGF says (BBM): "If he's in the water up there he was taken up there. He cannot walk on level ground without falling down. His little, short legs they can't walk up hill, he can't walk on level ground. He would have fallen and if he would have fallen he would have been crying. He didn't get up there by himself," DeOrr Kunz said.

http://www.ktvb.com/story/news/loca...andfather-believes-boy-was-abducted/30321903/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwM1oG3z358

Which is it? Little Deorr could move pretty good or he could barely walk on level ground?

I heard an emotional grandpa describing his 'little buddy' - I can just imagine that little DeOrr was the apple of his eye, and I'm wondering if he was also his first grandson? Anyway, he might be recalling DeOrr bumbling and stumbling around - but remember how quickly those walking skills develop once toddlers get going. DeOrr probably was tripping over his own feet a few short weeks before he disappeared, but I'd be believing his dad's view that he was getting around pretty well when he was last seen. Plus I don't think being wonky on their feet prevents many determined toddlers from getting where they want to go - they make a bee line for their target and go for it.

 

[ClaireNC]

Again, this makes it sound like IR was definitely at the scene and not off the site fishing or otherwise occupied. (just for clarification):

Over the weekend Reinwand’s name was widely publicized on social media, leading to Bowerman confirming the detail to EastIdahoNews.com

“Yes, he was at the scene,” Bowerman said in an email. “He’s a personal friend of grandpa’s for about five years. We are treating him no differently than the family, he has been questioned numerous times, and has been to the scene with me.”
http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/07/sheriff-family-friend-not-a-suspect-in-deorr-kunz-case/

Not trying to :deadhorse: but it almost seems like his presence was played down in the original description of events. That just raises more questions in my mind of the original account.

I still feel that the baby wandered off into the water. But I feel there may be some important parts of the account that are missing. Perhaps from fear of appearing that neglect or lack of supervision was an issue, perhaps based on some prior experiences or not wanting to open themselves up to criticism.

Also not trying to beat a dead horse, but being at the "scene" does not necessarily mean that he was at the campfire/campsite when whatever happened, happened. If anything even happened there. For example, he might not have been right there when they called 911 and the commotion broke out. He might have been off fishing or something, but by the time LE arrived he was back at the campsite.

I have thought all along that he was in the water, but as time goes on my thoughts have changed. So we are reading the same things with a different theory in mind. I'm trying to be very delicate in what I type, to stay within TOS.

 

[Trident]

I have a question for any parents who might be able to answer based on experience with their own toddlers. Starting at the campsite, I would assume that the parents went exploring by way of a footpath that led directly to the creek where the father saw the minnows he wanted to show DeOrr. Depending on the destination, say creek or toilets...there are only so many footpaths leading away from the camp. Would a toddler know to follow a footpath or would they just wander through vegetation etc if they went off in search of parents?

My kids would go any which way, path or no. If something caught their attention, bird, squirrel, they would run through the trees after it. I kinda know whereof I speak having raised 6 to adulthood.

 

[white rabbit]

maybe the clerk doesn't remember seeing them at 1:00 because...maybe they were never there.

 

[Jules71]

The Sheriff there seemed to have a lot of confidence in their dogs and handlers so I would give him the benefit of the doubt. He is familiar with their track records.

Yes, I get the "bubbles" analogy. However, there were few people in the area where he went missing. Dogs are trained differently and one set depends on the skin cells and oils left on the ground while the other set tracks the airborne scent left wafting off a person. There shouldn't be much confusion of "bubbles" on a relatively fresh scent for either set of dogs.

Every person, even in the same family, has a unique scent. DeOrr's blanket would have provided more than enough of his scent for a qualified search dog to follow, imo.

What if his blanket was washed before the trip and folded and packed away in the truck and he hadn't yet used it? No scent to track. Could the scent item be the problem with the dogs not finding a trail?

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk

 

[starfire]

I heard an emotional grandpa describing his 'little buddy' - I can just imagine that little DeOrr was the apple of his eye, and I'm wondering if he was also his first grandson? Anyway, he might be recalling DeOrr bumbling and stumbling around - but remember how quickly those walking skills develop once toddlers get going. DeOrr probably was tripping over his own feet a few short weeks before he disappeared, but I'd be believing his dad's view that he was getting around pretty well when he was last seen. Plus I don't think being wonky on their feet prevents many determined toddlers from getting where they want to go - they make a bee line for their target and go for it.

That could be the case, but since the GF lives with him I assume he is quite familiar with Deorr's walking skills -- so those comments stood out to me. Who knows. I wonder how quick he is in cowboy boots that are too big for him.

 

[ClaireNC]

(snipped for focus)

ETA: A question....do we know if *any* people other than the four adults we know about already were anywhere near the camp site?

No, we don't know if any other people were anywhere near the campsite on the day DeOrr went missing.

 

[persimmon]

I know one thing. If a child went missing on my watch (even if it was a mix-up) I would be shoulder to shoulder with the parents looking for him. I assume parents are still at/near the scene searching.

I guess LE/Parents could have ordered him home and keep a low profile. But why?

ETA: A question....do we know if *any* people other than the four adults we know about already were anywhere near the camp site?

So would I. If my dog was lost I'd still be there looking. If it was my child, I would be a constant presence in the lives of anybody who was leading the search efforts or could possibly help in any way. The silence is so loud it's disconcerting.