ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #4

[Jamaica Me Crazy]

I know one thing. If a child went missing on my watch (even if it was a mix-up) I would be shoulder to shoulder with the parents looking for him. I assume parents are still at/near the scene searching.

I guess LE/Parents could have ordered him home and keep a low profile. But why?

ETA: A question....do we know if *any* people other than the four adults we know about already were anywhere near the camp site?

If LE ordered him to keep a low profile it could be because his story doesn't jive with everyone else's and was told to answer questions the same way as we were told he answered them at the beginning of all of this.

 

[renarde]

maybe the clerk doesn't remember seeing them at 1:00 because...maybe they were never there.

I wonder who told the parents about the store clerk's account, and why. Wasn't this in the context of addressing things that needed to be cleared up?

Isn't this clerk's account some kind of hope to hang onto?

 

[catswhiskers]

I wonder how many times Nate from East Idaho News has tried to talk to the store clerk. He seems like the persistent type.

The store clerk seems important as she may have been the last non-person-of-interest to see him that day. It sounds like the dad was in agreement that he was seen at the store, just at the wrong time.

The store clerk's account is important.

I'm assuming that the store clerk has made statements to LE and been interviewed by them - surely if they were able to offer any insight or additional information that would have been made public? I'm thinking that LE would have shown the clerk photos of DeOrr and his family and clarified whether or not it was them they served earlier that day? I can't imagine that if the clerk insisted either seeing DeOrr and his dad at 6pm, or seeing DeOrr with someone that wasn't his dad, that LE would not have changed the whole direction of the investigation.
Hope that made sense, but my point is that I think if the store clerk's information had been important, we would have heard about it by now.

 

[desert-blue]

Were they there when the police arrived or did LE take them back to the campground after interviewing them?

From Bowerman's statements, I think it certainly opens up the idea that perhaps great-grandpa and Reinwand were not there when police and search and rescue showed up and that is why Reinwand went back to the scene later with the sheriff. This would also indicate that they (great-grandpa and Reinwand) came in a separate vehicle. It's very mysterious. I can't imagine anyone leaving the scene where there is a missing 2-year-old. You'd have to wonder what all they took with them when they left as well.

 

[Jules71]

Another thing I just thought of with regard to the scent item given to the dog handlers is cigarette smoke. I've read in previous cases that that can screw up a scent item or scent trail. Does anyone know if any of the 4 adults smoke?

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[SleuthMom]

Also, for those with more experience sleuthing here (if you could please, provide a few examples I would like to search it myself thank you!):

How common is for LE to label the parents of a missing child as "persons of interest" and divulge it to the media?.

Bumping my own post in case someone could answer and provide some examples, thanks!

 

[byo]

No, we don't know if any other people were anywhere near the campsite.

According to this article dated 7-24:
"Sheriff Bowerman also says during their search they found a woman scattering the ashes of a relative in the reservoir which he says that may have thrown off the search dogs."

The way this is phrased, it sounds like they found a woman scattering ashes during the search.

I thought I read another article that stated that a "couple" was in that area that day related to the cremains disbursal. Anyone remember that? Wouldn't that imply they were in the area when DeOrr went missing?

 

[ClaireNC]

That could be the case, but since the GGF lives with him I assume he is quite familiar with Deorr's walking skills -- so those comments stood out to me. Who knows. I wonder how quick he is in cowboy boots that are too big for him.

It is not GGF that lives with him. It is his paternal Grandfather, not great grandfather. We also don't know if DeOrr and his family still lives with grandpa. Or if not, how long ago he did. The grandfather said "They've lived with me in my house for the past year and a half and he's my buddy.” http://www.hlntv.com/article/2015/07/17/deorr-kunz-missing-family-fear-abducted Does that mean they still do?

 

[ClaireNC]

According to this article dated 7-24:
"Sheriff Bowerman also says during their search they found a woman scattering the ashes of a relative in the reservoir which he says that may have thrown off the search dogs."

The way this is phrased, it sounds like they found a woman scattering ashes during the search.

I thought I read another article that stated that a "couple" was in that area that day related to the cremains disbursal. Anyone remember that? Wouldn't that imply they were in the area when DeOrr went missing?

Not necessarily when he went missing. I got the impression that the cremains disbursal happened a few days into the search. Not the first day. The search was done in phases. The initial search included tracking dogs. A few days later they brought in cadaver dogs, which hit on the reservoir. It was those hits on the reservoir that were thrown off by the cremains.

This article was published a week after he went missing: http://www.hlntv.com/article/2015/07/17/deorr-kunz-missing-family-fear-abducted

Police divers have been methodically searching every square inch of the reservoir for the little boy after cadaver dogs indicated there may be something there. However, Lemhi County Sheriff Lynn Bowerman tells HLN they just learned that someone had been dumping human cremains in the reservoir, and that very well could be the smell the dogs picked up on.

 

[Jules71]

What are we left with if we disregard all the secondhand info on the timelines and just stick to what JM and DK said?

Arrive at campground Friday (msm)
Went down to the store as a family earlier in the day (DK)
Haven't left the campsite since 1 pm (DK)
Went off to explore - close to 2 pm (DK)
Gone for 10 minutes (JM)
Went 50 yards and 10 minutes from time last seen til realized missing (DK)
2:28 911 call - said he's been missing an hour (JM)
searched about 20 minutes before calling 911 (DK)
Hauled down the road to get better cell reception (DK)

I believe the 911 call - missing for an hour.

Between the exploring and the searching, something is off. My bet is on the searching. I think they searched longer than 20 minutes. Maybe mom wanted to call sooner and Dad said he has to be here, let's keep looking. I know I would be scared to call but would want to and my husband would be saying not to call yet and to keep looking.

He seems to have gone missing so soon after the trip to the store. Did someone follow them from the store? Who else was at the store?

Just rambling and trying to figure this all out.

If little Deorr was at the campsite and taken by a person or animal there would be a scent trail. Even him leaving in their car and heading to the store would produce a scent trail I believe. So like I said earlier, the scent item was bad or ?? Only his scent item was at the campsite and not him? I don't understand.




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[shellbythesea]

Wasn't there a second campsite nearby? Anyone know how far away it is?

 

[Hatfield]

According to this article dated 7-24:
"Sheriff Bowerman also says during their search they found a woman scattering the ashes of a relative in the reservoir which he says that may have thrown off the search dogs."

The way this is phrased, it sounds like they found a woman scattering ashes during the search.

I thought I read another article that stated that a "couple" was in that area that day related to the cremains disbursal. Anyone remember that? Wouldn't that imply they were in the area when DeOrr went missing?

I am not 100 percent sure but I think when I looked up about the cremains I saw where the Sheriff was responding about it on the same day as he went missing. At least that was the way I took it when I found some articles about it.

If the cremains scattering was on the exact day of the boy going missing, it does bring up some rather interesting new possibilities.

For example if the people scattering the cremains were total strangers then I would want LE to ask them who had died and how old the person who died was.

This is purely hypothetical but lets say a strangers young son had died recently. Then could grief have been so great for them that they wanted a new boy to take care of.

I suppose its possible.

No matter what the situation with the cremains there are some obvious questions that LE needed to ask them.

-What time were they there dumping cremains
-Where exactly in the water was the cremains being dumped
-Did they also camp in the area

ETA...I think when I read about the cremains it was the same days as they were searching and not necessarily the same day he went missing.

It would be nice to know exact dates and times and spot of cremains dumping.

It could just be coincidence but whenever you have cases like this those types of coincidences need to be checked out very carefully. There could be some sort of connection.

 

[SleuthMom]

What if his blanket was washed before the trip and folded and packed away in the truck and he hadn't yet used it? No scent to track. Could the scent item be the problem with the dogs not finding a trail?

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Actually, I believe the dogs keep coming back to the campsite because Deorr's items were there but I need a professional's opinion.

 

[starfire]

It is not GGF that lives with him. It is his paternal Grandfather, not great grandfather. We also don't know if DeOrr and his family still lives with grandpa. Or if not, how long ago he did. The grandfather said "They've lived with me in my house for the past year and a half and he's my buddy.” http://www.hlntv.com/article/2015/07/17/deorr-kunz-missing-family-fear-abducted Does that mean they still do?

My apologies if I had that incorrect. I really thought I had finally had everyone straight. All 3 Deorrs, etc.

From his wording, it sounds like they live with him and have for the past 1.5 years.

 

[ClaireNC]

I am not 100 percent sure but I think when I looked up about the cremains I saw where the Sheriff was responding about it on the same day as he went missing. At least that was the way I took it when I found some articles about it.

If the cremains scattering was on the exact day of the boy going missing, it does bring up some rather interesting new possibilities.

For example if the people scattering the cremains were total strangers then I would want LE to ask them who had died and how old the person who died was.

This is purely hypothetical but lets say a strangers young son had died recently. Then could grief have been so great for them that they wanted a new boy to take care of.

I suppose its possible.

No matter what the situation with the cremains there are some obvious questions that LE needed to ask them.

-What time were they there dumping cremains
-Where exactly in the water was the cremains being dumped
-Did they also camp in the area

I've been following the case closely from the beginning. I distinctly remember the news of the cremains coming out when the search had been going on for several days. I just expanded on this in my last post. It was the HLN article that first broke the news of the cremains.

 

[pappa rob]

On mountain lions:

Cats are nocturnal. They hunt from dusk to dawn and nap or rest during the day. Their food is plentiful this time of the year and they rarely attack humans. I discount the mountain lion theory.

I'd do a little more sleuthing about mountain lions if I was you. Yes they hunt early and late in the day, easy prey they will take whenever it happens. It happens a lot more than people think.

http://tchester.org/sgm/lists/lion_attacks_nonca.html

 

[Inthedetails]

I feel sorry for the person scattering the cremains. I'm sure the moment was meant to be private and meaningful with the hopes of having a peaceful "last moment alone" with a loved one. To find out your activities may have thwarted a rescue mission would be upsetting.

 

[Jules71]

Bringing this over from previous thread.

Transcript between the 7:00 and 8:00 minute marks which discusses the store.

Reporter: Is there any rumors that you've seen or anything you want to clear up, Jessica?

JM: I just . . . Somebody at the store, um, in Leadore, said, it was one of the ladies that had worked at the store said that they saw, um, a gentleman and a younger blonde boy matching our description of our son, really filthy, buying candy for him and he was just bawling, in a black truck. That is the only . . .

DK: Here's the problem.

JM: . . . other . . .

DK: My pickup truck's black.

JM: [indicating DK] He drives a black truck.

DK: As a family we went down to get some, to get a few things.

Reporter: So it could have been you?

JM: Earlier, it was earlier that day.

DK: It was me, but it, but they claim it was at 6:00 that evening and I, we, we still were with Search and Rescue until, what [turning to JM] a quarter till four?

JM: Yeah, from . . .

DK: We didn't never, we never . . . we haven't left the camp since 1:00 that afternoon. So it's just a lot of hearsay . . . and . . .

Reporter: Was anybody camping around you?

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[bluesneakers]

If grandpa has a mental( cognitive) or health issue as has been reported, he is not a reliable historian.

Wrong GGF.

 

[SleuthMom]

Wrong GGF.

I wish the investigators themselves start calling everyone by the proper title, it is confusing at times.

For instance, in the most recent news referring to IR, Sheriff said:

“He’s (been) a personal friend of grandpa’s for about five years. We are treating him no differently than the family, he has been questioned numerous times, and has been to the scene with me.”

Grandpa's or great-grandpa's?