ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #5

[rkf]

What has happened in this case:

- The parents have cooperated fully.
- The parents took polygraphs freely.
- The parents have not lawyered up.
- LE has found no signs of foul play.
-LE states it does not suspect foul play.
-LE states no one at the campsite is a suspect.
- LE states "They're good with me and I'm good with them." When referring to the parents.
- LE states "They're solid." When referring to the parents.

Of the above statements, the ones we know to be true:
On July 21st, Sheriff Bowerman "confirmed they did take a polygraph test but didn't know when or if the results of the test would be released to the public." So we have no idea what the results showed.
http://www.localnews8.com/news/new-details-on-search-for-deorr-kunz-jr/34281340
On July 22nd, The Lemhi County Sheriff’s Office does not expect foul play in the disappearance of Idaho Falls toddler Deorr Kunz Jr., according to Sheriff Lynn Bowerman.
http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/07/lemhi-sheriff-on-deorr-kunz-we-do-not-suspect-foul-play/
-The sheriff stated no one at the campsite is a suspect at this time (a few days ago)
http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/07/sheriff-family-friend-not-a-suspect-in-deorr-kunz-case/
- On July 16th (or before) Chief Deputy Steve Penner stated "We've interviewed the family, and the information they've provided us - my office, myself - we're good with that," he said. "And I know there's a lot of innuendo out on social media and a lot of stuff going out there and it would be nice if it would stop and let them have a little peace. They're solid."

BBM

Just because LE hasn't told us something exists doesn't mean it doesn't. They have their reasons for keeping the investigation "close to the vest". They have had drones take photos in case a criminal case ever develops. If LE doesn't believe DeOrr was kidnapped, they're not leaving a lot of people who could have participated in a crime.

I'm sure my dates are off above. If anyone can more accurately pin down when these statements were made, please advise! TIA!

 

[bluesneakers]

Of the above statements, the ones we know to be true:
On July 21st, Sheriff Bowerman "confirmed they did take a polygraph test but didn't know when or if the results of the test would be released to the public." So we have no idea what the results showed.
http://www.localnews8.com/news/new-details-on-search-for-deorr-kunz-jr/34281340
On July 22nd, The Lemhi County Sheriff’s Office does not expect foul play in the disappearance of Idaho Falls toddler Deorr Kunz Jr., according to Sheriff Lynn Bowerman.
http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/07/lemhi-sheriff-on-deorr-kunz-we-do-not-suspect-foul-play/
-The sheriff stated no one at the campsite is a suspect at this time (a few days ago)
http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/07/sheriff-family-friend-not-a-suspect-in-deorr-kunz-case/
- On July 16th (or before) Chief Deputy Steve Penner stated "We've interviewed the family, and the information they've provided us - my office, myself - we're good with that," he said. "And I know there's a lot of innuendo out on social media and a lot of stuff going out there and it would be nice if it would stop and let them have a little peace. They're solid."

BBM

Just because LE hasn't told us something exists doesn't mean it doesn't. They have their reasons for keeping the investigation "close to the chest". They have had drones take photos in case a criminal case ever develops. If LE doesn't believe DeOrr was kidnapped, they're not leaving a lot of people who could have participated in a crime.

I'm sure my dates are off above. If anyone can more accurately pin down when these statements were made, please advise! TIA!

They might not be playing it close to the chest. And if they know so much they're keeping big secrets and hoarding evidence I don't understand why they wouldn't have made an announcement or arrest already. What are they waiting for? The random gossip gathered from FB and the like is all old news to LE yet they've done nothing with it.

After seeing what happened in the Ember Graham case I think LE is willing to take a lot of risks when it comes to a missing child.

 

[SubtleGrace]

What does this mean and when has it happened?

Ayla Reynolds case for one. Oh, sorry, it didn't copy the original list about what LE will say/do in a case. The one that is about "good old boys". Sorry for any confusion, it wasn't meant to be a random post!

 

[rkf]

Yes. I remember that clearly. There have been others as well.Still different from this one. For many reasons. For one, they have stated here, very clearly that they do not suspect nor expect foul play in this case. Plus they've said the parents are solid and they're good with the parents. In Noah's case, they said there was no evidence of foul play. Which was probably true until they found his body only five days into the search. It's been three weeks here.

You also have to look at the circumstances of the cases. The circumstances of the two disappearances are quite, quite different, including location of disappearance, adults present, and time without finding a body.

If they were positive there was no foul play, why send drones up to take photos in case a criminal case should develop later? How long ago did the Chief Deputy say he was good with the family and they were good with him and that they were solid? Has the investigation progressed or changed since that statement? How does the amount of time that's passed make it more likely that LE would continue to see the POIs as "good" and "solid"? What do "good with me" and "solid" mean in legal terms? When was the last time a LE official who is currently investigating this case said they did not suspect foul play? Why would the sheriff add "at this time" to his statement that the people at the camp site are not suspects?

TIA

 

[bluesneakers]

Ayla Reynolds case for one. Oh, sorry, it didn't copy the original list about what LE will say/do in a case. The one that is about "good old boys". Sorry for any confusion, it wasn't meant to be a random post!

Thanks. The difference was our definitions of "good old boys."

 

[SeriouslySearching]

It's been Friday since the case began. Insisting on reinventing this wheel is waaayyyyy over the top, IMO!

If only we had the cell phone records and pings! It would stop this uncertainty, imo. I would have to assume by now LE and the FBI do have those records, but they obviously are not going to share the information. Those records could become very important in this case.

 

[SubtleGrace]

If only we had the cell phone records and pings! It would stop this uncertainty, imo. I would have to assume by now LE and the FBI do have those records, but they obviously are not going to share the information. Those records could become very important in this case.

Only problem with that is the rural area would have less towers covering more territory, and in that country, less is not better.

 

[persimmon]

I know that the East Idaho News said that they arrived Friday morning in their timeline article: http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/07/deorr-kunz-disappearance-a-timeline-of-events/ And now Reuters is reporting it. Both of these sources do not say where that factoid came from. Have you seen any other articles with this information? If so, please post a link.

Forgive me if I missed something because I am catching up for the past few days of sporadic reading. The off limits for discussion material emphatically states July 9th.

Perhaps the 10th was mistakenly reported and the subsequent articles were lazy journalism. Since it was a late arrival, it might explain the misinformation. Assuming the 9th was just lights out. Jmo

 

[Floridian]

So FBI has been called in. They are saying it is not a abduction, and they are expanding the search.. They have ruled out animal attack, that leaves the water.... Its easy for him to be in the water. Searched or not.. He could be very easily missed. jus ayn

 

[rkf]

It's been Friday since the case began. Insisting on reinventing this wheel is waaayyyyy over the top, IMO!

IMO, a lot of information that was reported early on may change as the investigation progresses. I don't know what day they arrived, but I'm not going to cling to a particular day/time just because it was reported in MSM (and the timeline has been hazy all along). I'm also not going to automatically believe something posted on SM by someone who could either not be who she says she is or have her own reasons for undermining what has been said by the family/investigators.

 

[rkf]

I know your first question wasn't directed at me, but I don't believe anything stated in MSM without a source, and I would be hesitant to believe someone who wasn't there. Especially if it contradicts what the people who were there say (or don't say as the case may be).

I don't believe we have a named source stating when they arrived at the campsite. Certainly JM and DK did not provide that information during their interview - not specifically. They implied they arrived the day DeOrr disappeared, but they did not state it IIRC.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

I know your first question wasn't directed at me, but I don't believe anything stated in MSM without a source, and I would be hesitant to believe someone who wasn't there. Especially if it contradicts what the people who were there say (or don't say as the case may be).

Sometimes sources are not possible in MSM. There are times LE will drop a little nugget without having it directly attributed to them. Leaks happen and sometimes they are on purpose.

I would be willing to consider information from an insider who doesn't have any idea their honesty could contradict what is already out there. It depends on the claim and the possible reasons for there to be a discrepancy. If it appears to be an innocent slip and not a staged response, I think it is often easy to gauge.

 

[Floridian]

So let's say you heard differently by someone close to the case that they arrived on a different day - would you still believe what has been stated in msm without a source?

hmmmmmmm, curiosity? Is someone implying that they have possibly arrived on a diff day. than the day they are claiming? Just asking?

 

[rkf]

They might not be playing it close to the chest. And if they know so much they're keeping big secrets and hoarding evidence I don't understand why they wouldn't have made an announcement or arrest already. What are they waiting for? The random gossip gathered from FB and the like is all old news to LE yet they've done nothing with it.

After seeing what happened in the Ember Graham case I think LE is willing to take a lot of risks when it comes to a missing child.

Rumor and innuendo do not make a case. IF they are building a criminal case, this is a complex investigation. I would assume more than one crime scene, less than stellar witnesses at the camp site, reconstructing timelines, collecting evidence... It takes time. Even if they started dual investigations as soon as the 911 call was placed, they have spent a lot of their resources (time/money/man hours) on the SAR angle. There could be several jurisdictions involved. There could be inconclusive polygraphs, which aren't admissible in court anyway. Alternative scenarios need to be researched and ruled out within any reasonable doubt.

I joined Websleuths because of a case in my hometown. It is now going on the third month and the investigation is no where near complete. LE has arrested one person, but insists they believe the crime could not have been committed by him alone. They are sharing virtually nothing with MSM and the public. For completely selfish reasons, I wish I hadn't stumbled onto DeOrr's story and become so invested. Are there any Websleuths cases that are solved relatively quickly and completely? I want one of those.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

Only problem with that is the rural area would have less towers covering more territory, and in that country, less is not better.

If a call or text goes through...there is a tower it is hitting first to get there. Wouldn't all calls basically be bouncing around the same tower if they are so sparse? This would also help to determine location.

 

[Floridian]

Ugh........ Where is he already???????? My hubby keeps saying hes in the water (sadly)... I dont wanna believe that he wondered to follow his parents and drowned... I just keep holding out HOPE that he will be found alive by a miracle, when reality is a nightmare..... The parents have been ruled out by LE, and now FBI.. Abduction is ruled out , and animal attack ruled out......
that leaves water, or missing 411... Many think the missing 411 is crazy, I personally dont... READ ab it...... REGARDLESS........... I just want him found alive!!!!!

 

[SeriouslySearching]

Rumor and innuendo do not make a case. IF they are building a criminal case, this is a complex investigation. I would assume more than one crime scene, less than stellar witnesses at the camp site, reconstructing timelines, collecting evidence... It takes time. Even if they started dual investigations as soon as the 911 call was placed, they have spent a lot of their resources (time/money/man hours) on the SAR angle. There could be several jurisdictions involved. There could be inconclusive polygraphs, which aren't admissible in court anyway. Alternative scenarios need to be researched and ruled out within any reasonable doubt.

I joined Websleuths because of a case in my hometown. It is now going on the third month and the investigation is no where near complete. LE has arrested one person, but insists they believe the crime could not have been committed by him alone. They are sharing virtually nothing with MSM and the public. For completely selfish reasons, I wish I hadn't stumbled onto DeOrr's story and become so invested. Are there any Websleuths cases that are solved relatively quickly and completely? I want one of those.

Too late! Best settle in for the long haul because you are not going anywhere for awhile on this one. (Hope the one in your hometown sees movement soon!)

No. Those cases do not exist. This is real life and it can never be so simple. Even in the cases where there appears to be a quick resolve...something always comes up to jam the gears.

 

[desert-blue]

I read something different too.

What is it you all are reading over there? I see only one arrival time mentioned over there - am I missing something???

 

[rkf]

Ugh........ Where is he already???????? My hubby keeps saying hes in the water (sadly)... I dont wanna believe that he wondered to follow his parents and drowned... I just keep holding out HOPE that he will be found alive by a miracle, when reality is a nightmare..... The parents have been ruled out by LE, and now FBI.. Abduction is ruled out , and animal attack ruled out......
that leaves water, or missing 411... Many think the missing 411 is crazy, I personally dont... READ ab it...... REGARDLESS........... I just want him found alive!!!!!

I don't think they can completely rule out anything until they find out exactly what happened to DeOrr. The people at the campsite when DeOrr disappeared are not suspects at this time. That is not the same thing as ruled out. They have searched the creek and reservoir exhaustively, but his body could still be in one of them. In cases where children have been believed to have been attacked and carried off by predators, it's been months or years before evidence was found. LE has said they believe abduction if very unlikely from the beginning, but they've also said they can't rule it out completely. The FBI hasn't made any public statements, and I don't expect them to unless someone is arrested. Even then, I think local LE would make the announcement.

We still don't know anymore about what happened to the baby than we did weeks ago. As far as we know, nothing has been truly ruled out. LE may know different, but they're not sharing...

 

[rkf]

If a call or text goes through...there is a tower it is hitting first to get there. Wouldn't all calls basically be bouncing around the same tower if they are so sparse? This would also help to determine location.

It wouldn't even have to be that specific to be helpful - just were people in one part of the state or another? The more specific, the better, of course!