ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #5

[SeaEclipse]

Yes, I agree that they probably didn't mean that Deorr has those things in his hands every second of the day. Plus, they were camping. From what I recall from the video, the blanket looked a little big (folded a few times). If they let him carry that around the campground, with him being such a little guy, he would likely end up dragging it. It would soon be covered with dirt, twigs, pine needles and so on. Plus, it would be dangerous to have it being dragged around a campfire. They may have been waiting until Deorr was settled in the tent (or wherever he was going to take his nap), sitting in a camp chair, etc., before they gave it to him to avoid it getting dirty.

I have not read or seen anything in the news or in the interview that said the cup and the monkey were in the truck -- just the blanket.

I completely agree. The thing I think is weird is that the parents seemingly mentioned it as a reason he didn't leave on his own. If he didn't literally carry it around with him all the time, then why *would* it have been with him when whatever happened happened? I mean, I could see that some object being left behind could make it less likely that a tween/teen ran away (e.g., their cell phone), but I don't think anyone is seriously suggesting that this 2.5 year old intentionally ran away.

 

[Trident]

I wonder if LE has checked everyone's cell phones.

 

[SeaEclipse]

FWIW, I still think he's going to end up being in the water somewhere (ETA: as the result of an accident). There have just been too many cases where a body of water is searched and the MP isn't found... and then it turns out that's where they are awhile later. Even LE here seems to be half expecting DK's body to float up after 3 weeks.

I realize the dogs didn't get a hit... but dogs aren't foolproof. We've seen cases where dogs missed something they should have hit on. We've particularly seen it where they were confused by something. I think the cremains could have confused them.

Also, I think it's possible that the parents are being slightly evasive/defensive/contradictory in how they answer some questions, but that could just be guilt over leaving DK unsupervised or supervised by GGP and/or the weird friend. 99% of the time, the kid ends up being fine in that scenario; here, he wasn't (assuming it was an accident). They probably feel very guilty. I think it's VERY unlikely that this is all a giant conspiracy where the parents intentionally killed DK. And, if somehow his death was an accident, I doubt it was any worse than the story they've concocted here ... so what would be the point?

 

[desert-blue]

No fire restrictions for central ID:

http://idahofireinfo.blogspot.com/p/central-idaho-fire-restrictions.html

We usually start a fire soon after setting camp. It takes awhile to get good coals for roasting hotdogs and making s'mores. Even on very hot days as we love perking coffee.

Not sure how to check back to July 10th, but if there was a campfire burning on one of the news clip videos then there must not have been any restrictions at that time. I still don't know that I would start a campfire in the middle of the afternoon when it's 75 degrees outside and when there is a busy toddler out and about (especially if I was planning on going exploring rather than being near the campfire). However, that's just me. Keeping an eye on a toddler near a fire is no easy task. I have no reason to doubt it, but I still find it odd.

 

[IDTater]

FWIW, I still think he's going to end up being in the water somewhere (ETA: as the result of an accident). There have just been too many cases where a body of water is searched and the MP isn't found... and then it turns out that's where they are awhile later. Even LE here seems to be half expecting DK's body to float up after 3 weeks.

About the water theory - there is a young man who jumped into a lake in Custer County, adjacent to Lemhi County where DeOrr disappeared from. He was relatively close to the shore, they have a pretty good idea where he went in and they still haven't located his body. This happened Saturday and I read today that they are bringing in sonar to assist in the recovery. I mention it only because it helps me understand just how difficult locating a submerged body can be, even an adult male with an accurate last known location.

 

[rkf]

She, actually, and she was a spectacular author. I think "Children of Men" should be required reading for, oh, pretty much everyone. But I also loved her classic murder mysteries.

(Also, marking my place.)

She wrote that? Wow! Awesome book!

 

[LookingForClues]

In addition to the already perfectly acceptable reasons provided for having a camp fire in the middle of the day, GGP may also tend to feel cold when the younger folks do not. Or it just might bring back fond memories for him of camping in his younger years (perhaps even childhood memories...anyone here who has relatives with dementia know how simple things can turn back the clock and bring forth great reminiscences...or even make their loved one feel as if they are 6, 8 ,or 10 years old again...though I am just assuming that GGP's health issues include dementia).

I've said it before in earlier threads that I don't find it strange for a multi-generational family to camp in this remote location. But what the heck, I'll say it again: I don't find it strange for a multi-generational family to camp in this remote location. In fact, I think it's wonderful that a family can share their love for the great outdoors. I don't judge people who think a vacation is staying in a 5-star hotel and I don't judge people who think vacation is a 30-mile hike to a favorite high-alpine lake. What concerns me more is the family that doesn't want to spend time together in any way, shape or form.

 

[desert-blue]

I wonder if LE has checked everyone's cell phones.

I certainly hope so!

 

[rkf]

Not sure how to check back to July 10th, but if there was a campfire burning on one of the news clip videos then there must not have been any restrictions at that time. I still don't know that I would start a campfire in the middle of the afternoon when it's 75 degrees outside and when there is a busy toddler out and about (especially if I was planning on going exploring rather than being near the campfire). However, that's just me. Keeping an eye on a toddler near a fire is no easy task. I have no reason to doubt it, but I still find it odd.

I think it's unlikely there is video of the campsite the day DeOrr went missing. Until a day went by, it was still a lost child in the woods. I don't think MSM got involved until a little later.

 

[Jackeee]

Not sure how to check back to July 10th, but if there was a campfire burning on one of the news clip videos then there must not have been any restrictions at that time. I still don't know that I would start a campfire in the middle of the afternoon when it's 75 degrees outside and when there is a busy toddler out and about (especially if I was planning on going exploring rather than being near the campfire). However, that's just me. Keeping an eye on a toddler near a fire is no easy task. I have no reason to doubt it, but I still find it odd.

Years ago when we took the kids camping, the first thing they wanted to do was get the campfire going. It didn't matter how hot it was, or that you couldn't sit anywhere near it because of the heat from the fire and blazing sun. It was just all so exciting!

 

[teeandcee]

I also think it's wonderful they took GGP with them. It was his favorite place, and I can see them taking him especially if his mind is going. It might be the last really great memories everyone has with each other.

Also, I think it's possible that the parents are being slightly evasive/defensive/contradictory in how they answer some questions, but that could just be guilt over leaving DK unsupervised or supervised by GGP and/or the weird friend. 99% of the time, the kid ends up being fine in that scenario; here, he wasn't (assuming it was an accident). They probably feel very guilty.

I agree. They're going to be paying a very heavy price for the rest of their lives for the kind of dumb decisions most of us get away with. And, yeah, leaving your toddler with GGP and IR was dumb. I think it's incredibly risky and foolish to leave your child with a total stranger especially (even more so than leaving him with GGP), but I've also done some pretty stupid things in my life that I have no common sense explanation for. Not saying IR has anything to do with it, just using that as an example of those decisions we all make that we look back on and smack ourselves for.

 

[ClaireNC]

Years ago when we took the kids camping, the first thing they wanted to do was get the campfire going. It didn't matter how hot it was, or that you couldn't sit anywhere near it because of the heat from the fire and blazing sun. It was just all so exciting!

We are a camping family, passed down through generations. We always have a fire going when we are at the campsite. To us, it is a part of camping no matter how hot it is outside. The campfire is the central meeting point -the family room of the campsite. It is used for cooking and helps keep the bugs away, but most of all it is just relaxing to sit and watch the fire. The first person up in the morning gets to start the fire and it is kept going until we go to sleep at night, as long as somebody is there to keep and eye on it. I don't see anything unusual with them having a fire in the middle of the day in July.

 

[Jules71]

Yes, I agree that they probably didn't mean that Deorr has those things in his hands every second of the day. Plus, they were camping. From what I recall from the video, the blanket looked a little big (folded a few times). If they let him carry that around the campground, with him being such a little guy, he would likely end up dragging it. It would soon be covered with dirt, twigs, pine needles and so on. Plus, it would be dangerous to have it being dragged around a campfire. They may have been waiting until Deorr was settled in the tent (or wherever he was going to take his nap), sitting in a camp chair, etc., before they gave it to him to avoid it getting dirty.

I have not read or seen anything in the news or in the interview that said the cup and the monkey were in the truck -- just the blanket.

Just jumping off your post - not necessarily in response to what you said -

The parents made a point to say the reason they feel he was abducted is because it would be the only way he would be gone without his stuff. If he went off on his own, he would have taken his stuff. That was the impression I got from Mom and Dad in the interview. JMO I think it is unreasonable to think he would carry all of his stuff around everywhere all the time. But the parents wanted us to know they thought it was concerning that he was gone without his blanket - in other words, he was gone and not by his choice.

From interview:

Interviewer: tell me about the blanket.

Jessica: this is his blanket. He doesn't go anywhere without his blanket, his cup, or his monkey, and all three of them were left at the campground. And since he..

D: All three has to be with him.

J: Yes.

D: He will trip over them if he has to, but they are going with him, and this is the first time since he's been born, pretty much, that he's been without these things...and that's another reason why we were wondering.

J: Yes, because this is the blanket that we brought him home in from the hospital, this is his, this is what comforts him and at all times.

D: This is an exact replica of a security blanket, for everybody this is his actual blanket - he does not go anywhere without it, that's our other concern of why.

J: Yeah, and I..

 

[LookingForClues]

We are a camping family, passed down through generations. We always have a fire going when we are at the campsite. To us, it is a part of camping no matter how hot it is outside. The campfire is the central meeting point -the family room of the campsite. It is used for cooking and helps keep the bugs away, but most of all it is just relaxing to sit and watch the fire. The first person up in the morning gets to start the fire and it is kept going until we go to sleep at night, as long as somebody is there to keep and eye on it. I don't see anything unusual with them having a fire in the middle of the day in July.

So eloquently stated... :loveyou:

 

[minnermomma]

I wonder how far back toward town they searched that bumpy road. I also wonder how far out on either side they searched it. After all, the baby could have taken off down the road or veered off and his scent may have been obliterated by so many vehicles coming up for the search.

Woke up from a sound sleep last night, thinking about the sweet child and something that's been "niggling" at me. In the interview with Mom and Dad, Dad described his trip down the round to get better cell service as "hauling a$$" or some such phrase. My son was a climber, and let's say DeOrr managed up into the bed of truck with all the camping goodies, fell asleep maybe or played hide and seek, whatever. Dad takes off at a high rate of speed and somewhere much further down, little DeOrr winds up out of back of truck, off side of road maybe on creek side? Would have been head start on where searchers were looking maybe? Like most all here, I'm grasping at straws for any rhyme or reason for such a tragic event to what should have been a peaceful family getaway.

 

[Cardinal47]

I can't believe tomorrow will be three weeks since little DeOrr disappeared.

I think about that little boy every single day.

 

[RickshawFan]

I posted practically the same thing before I read your post. There are fire restrictions in the state I live in that have been ongoing. It's completely understandable due to the drought and hot weather, but it takes a bit of fun out of a camping trip to not be able to have a fire.

This whole discussion about campfires makes me cringe.

I haven't used a campfire for years (33), and sometimes I've camped for 100 nights in a year, one year at least 185. It's current campground ethic not to ("leave no trace") because wood foraging takes duff and small twigs (not to mention branches) away from animals that need it to survive (for nesting, cover from predators, etc), but it's also especially discouraged out West because of the risk of forest fire. Often, it is expressly forbidden. In some areas of the country (e.g. Appalachian Trail and many campgrounds) the trees are bare of branches below human reach and the floor of the forest has no debris whatever, as though it's been swept. These areas look completely sterile. Often, the animals have all left.

Not having a campfire is routine procedure for experienced campers. They use gas stoves. They generally do not use the new-fangled one-pot woodstoves that recharge iPhones, either; these also require duff and twiglets and there are many alternative ways of recharging electronic devices. First timers? Maybe that can be forgiven for the one-time experience of somemores, but they'd better be using wood purchased on site, with the fire started using a commercial packaged log. They have no business either bringing wood from elsewhere (which spreads disease) or using wood foraged on site. It does not belong to them: these are public campgrounds, for everyone and for animals.

Just sayin'....

 

[fishing_idaho]

This whole discussion about campfires makes me cringe.

I haven't used a campfire for years (33), and sometimes I've camped for 100 nights in a year, one year at least 185. It's current campground ethic not to ("leave no trace") because wood foraging takes duff and small twigs (not to mention branches) away from animals that need it to survive (for nesting, cover from predators, etc), but it's also especially discouraged out West because of the risk of forest fire. Often, it is expressly forbidden. In some areas of the country (e.g. Appalachian Trail and many campgrounds) the trees are bare of branches below human reach and the floor of the forest has no debris whatever, as though it's been swept. These areas look completely sterile. Often, the animals have all left.

Not having a campfire is routine procedure for experienced campers. They use gas stoves. They generally do not use the new-fangled one-pot woodstoves that recharge iPhones, either; these also require duff and twiglets and there are many alternative ways of recharging electronic devices. First timers? Maybe that can be forgiven for the one-time experience of somemores, but they'd better be using wood purchased on site, with the fire started using a commercial packaged log. They have no business either bringing wood from elsewhere (which spreads disease) or using wood foraged on site. It does not belong to them: these are public campgrounds, for everyone and for animals.

Just sayin'....

I'm not trying to start an argument over campfires, but your opinion on them is not shared by most people that live in Idaho. Even most of the more environmentally friendly locals I know would not have a problem with bringing wood for a campfire or gathering up some at the campsite. It's legal on the Salmon-Challis National Forest to gather wood for a campfire and a large percentage of houses in Lemhi County burn wood for winter heating. Firewood is also not sold on site with the exception of some of the most popular tourist destinations (like Redfish Lake) and definitely not at any campsites near Leadore or Salmon.

 

[Mickshawn]

I'm a first timer here on WS...Can somebody(s) explain to me reasons why we're getting no news or updates? I'm so heartbroken over this little guy....!!

 

[fishing_idaho]

This whole discussion about campfires makes me cringe.

I haven't used a campfire for years (33), and sometimes I've camped for 100 nights in a year, one year at least 185. It's current campground ethic not to ("leave no trace") because wood foraging takes duff and small twigs (not to mention branches) away from animals that need it to survive (for nesting, cover from predators, etc), but it's also especially discouraged out West because of the risk of forest fire. Often, it is expressly forbidden. In some areas of the country (e.g. Appalachian Trail and many campgrounds) the trees are bare of branches below human reach and the floor of the forest has no debris whatever, as though it's been swept. These areas look completely sterile. Often, the animals have all left.

Not having a campfire is routine procedure for experienced campers. They use gas stoves. They generally do not use the new-fangled one-pot woodstoves that recharge iPhones, either; these also require duff and twiglets and there are many alternative ways of recharging electronic devices. First timers? Maybe that can be forgiven for the one-time experience of somemores, but they'd better be using wood purchased on site, with the fire started using a commercial packaged log. They have no business either bringing wood from elsewhere (which spreads disease) or using wood foraged on site. It does not belong to them: these are public campgrounds, for everyone and for animals.

Just sayin'....

I should also add that it seems like you are more accustomed to camping in areas that have a much larger population base. Idaho is huge, and not that many people live here. In Lemhi County we have a population of 7,936 and the county is 4,563 square miles. That comes out to 1.7 people per square mile. I understand that things are different elsewhere, but this area is very isolated and tends to lag behind the rest of the country with just about everything.