ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #7

[rkf]

I just read that they found that other little boy Jerald 3.7 miles from the last place he was seen (near his campsite). So sad.
The parents waited 4 hours before notifying the police and they were with a group of 20. The air force assisted in the search.
The parents are devestated as one would expect, but the outpouring of support is much different for that family.
I just don't understand why the same resources aren't in searches..I guess it comes down to money and status sadly...

I just realized that the town of Leadore is lead ore. Idaho has a lot of name mash-ups!

I think if Jerold's case had gone on for weeks without any more information from the parents, there would have been more suspicion. People were already coming up with some pretty wild theories. The family was FLDS, which provided an explanation for why the family didn't call LE sooner and why they didn't speak to the media. Jerold's disappearance was always treated as a missing person, not an abduction. That, and the relatively short period of time he was missing could play into the difference in treatment by MSM. I don't think money and status had anything to do with it. JMO

 

[rkf]

The clerk refusing a interview with the paper could also be interpreted to mean that her supposed sighting was not credible, or after being shown more photos of DeOrr Jr. she realized it was not the same boy, and she didn't want to perpetuate the error, or she was just plain embarrassed.

If that's the case, I wonder why the Sheriff's office didn't announce that like they did the Walmart sighting.

 

[StacyMarie83]

ITA. I wish everyone here could read up on statement analysis (NOT reverse speech which is complete and total bunk IMO) There is an excellent book called I Know You're Lying by Mark McClish. I read it on my kindle. I tend to "interpret" for people when they speak, meaning in my head I say "when they said x, they meant y". The point of statement analysis is to not interpret, but just listen/read what the other person is saying/said. There are other aspects such as "pace" which I felt in my gut when watching the original interview, but didn't have words to explain. DK reminded me of when one of my kids doesn't want to tell me what really happened, so they spend a lot of time on details and lead up, putting off the inevitable for as long as possible. Statement analysis can help determine if someone is being deceptive (not necessarily lying - often times leaving something out) and what areas are "sensitive" to the speaker.

Intentional or accidental, every interview so far has been a masterful demonstration of talking without saying anything. That leaves each of us to "interpret" what was said in the most reasonable manner. It also leads people to see things that support any outstanding theories we may have. The absence of information is very telling to me. It doesn't mean they did something to DeOrr, but it appears that they are not being entirely open about what happened. That can be because of guilt that their child went missing and they feel responsible. It could be because they were doing something they don't want anyone to know about during the time DeOrr went missing. We really have no idea, because they haven't said anything that would help us understand much of anything about their trip, including basic details that ordinarily wouldn't be sensitive - time of arrival, who was on the trip, when/why they went to the store, etc.

A really good example of jumping to conclusions/interpreting (reasonably so, IMO) is buying candy for DeOrr at the store. DK never said they bought him candy in the interview. But because of JM's statement before about the clerk seeing a man buying a child matching DeOrr's description candy, and DK jumping in to say that the time was wrong, we "hear" that as the rest is correct, just not the time. Also, a family member posted on a MSM's FB page that they bought candy for DeOrr and ggp. That all colors our perception and our brains make natural connections. BUT unless DK says he bought candy for DeOrr, we can't know that is true.

Sorry to ramble, but I'm pretty fired up about how much information we can glean by not finishing other peoples' thoughts for them.

EXCELLENT and surprisingly quick and easy read!!!! It is definitely a must read. The only thing in the statements that really bother me is the past tense. That is usually a pretty good indicator that whoever is talking think the missing is deceased. But, negative people tend to use negative statements as well. So it's not indicating involvement, but it's indicating a negative sense of the situation, which is quite scary in a missing toddler's case.

 

[rkf]

EXCELLENT and surprisingly quick and easy read!!!! It is definitely a must read. The only thing in the statements that really bother me is the past tense. That is usually a pretty good indicator that whoever is talking think the missing is deceased. But, negative people tend to use negative statements as well. So it's not indicating involvement, but it's indicating a negative sense of the situation, which is quite scary in a missing toddler's case.

I picked up on the past tense in the 911 call, but have since read that isn't an indicator of thinking someone is dead, as the speaker could be thinking of what the child was wearing an hour ago when she last saw him. However, using past tense as in the PI's statement would mean something if it was said by one of the parents. Past tense statements referring to character or characteristics are more indicative of guilty knowledge. (Such as "He was the joy of my life.") JMO

 

[rkf]

I agree with you. The only thing I have to add is the clerk did make a point of bringing that out as extra information so it was important to her. It was something that stuck out as a little unusual to her. So to me, he must have been more dirty than usual. Like very filthy and dirty.

Why am I making that leap? Because he could have been clean and she would not have mentioned it otherwise.

Then again, it could just be me that is making a big deal of it. LOL

I agree. I think a little boy would have to be really dirty to stand out in a store where there is so much outdoorsy stuff going on. Assuming there really was a sighting at the Stage Stop, I can't imagine most children who come in there are pristine after a day of camping (6 pm). It would make sense if a man and a toddler had just spent four hours hiking 8 miles through the forest into town. I'm not saying that's what happened, but if I thought my child had been abducted, that's what I would think. JMO

 

[Jules71]

if they're picky about baked or fried french fries --- that's on the parent IMO. That is being spoiled. I DO have a child who was once a 2 year old picky eater--- it is not that hard to get them not to be picky. She was picky and it doesn't involve force feeding to help them widen their palate. Here's some pears, more pears, whoops a bite of carrot, now some more pears lol Eventually, she grew a taste for carrots and is now her favorite vegetable. I was a spoiled eater by my mom, and now as a 32 year old I don't eat healthy b/c I don't like anything healthy. Being a healthy eater doesn't make my jim croce loving, lego building 8 year old a drone --- it's makes her healthy -- which means no flu, ear infections, stomach aches, body aches, cramps, etc. Healthy choices do make a difference. This girl in my daughters class only eats french fries dipped in ice cream from mcdonalds ... she's passed out 3 times in class (falling out of her chair and banging her head once) ... why? malnutrition. Just because she's getting full doesn't mean she's healthy, but the law says it doesn't matter what you feed your child --- as long as they are eating enough its okay. I'm not trying to be snarky, I just felt slightly offended by your post lol Probably b/c of the way my mom let me only eat whatever I wanted and now that I'm older I wish she would have made me try different things. She spoiled me b/c she was forced to eat dinner or nothing at all. She had 5 other siblings and my grandma wasn't going to make 6 different dinners to please every kid on a budget. Understandable of course

I do agree that every case (and child) is like a snowflake --- but if you look at snowflakes from far away they all look the same, just like cases --- categorically, they have similarities IMO

Can't believe I'm discussing eating habits on WS ... that's when you know we need something and have nothing to discuss. :crazy:

I just hope with all my heart that deorr is alive, I know it's wishful thinking - I can't quit thinking about this little boy. MSM needs to pick up the stories without amber alerts, but they tend not to. IMO the stories without amber alerts need a bit more attention because of the lack of information.

IMO there is waaay more to extreme picky eating than just being spoiled. But this is completely OT and not even related to this case.

The PI said the parents bought him fries up in Lemhi which probably meant Leadore. We know they went to the Stage Stop so they probably got the fries there or maybe at the cafe owned by the RSO 250 feet away.

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[rkf]

The physical evidence would probably refer to DNA samples, fingerprints, clothing, the monkey, cup and blanket, and general stuff from the campsite...like alcohol, utensils, ash from the fire...

LE question: When would they have collected that? Right away? A few days into the search? Weeks later? All along? If you think you're going to find the baby any minute, would there be reason to collect physical evidence? I'm wondering at what point, LE decided it was necessary. I'm sure there was so much going on behind the scenes that we don't know, so I'm just curious if anyone knows about this.

 

[allmybecsloveme]

Does anyone else think if all of us websleuthers went out to the campground for a few hours we could find him if he is indeed there? I just feel like he is either nearby and/or in the creek. He is TWO.

Something isn't right here. They're either not looking hard enough, he isn't there, or he was never there. IMO.

 

[rkf]

True. I guess the PI's comment combined with the comments made by TBC lead me to believe that they did arrive on Thursday. I don't understand why it's a big deal and why it hasn't been clarified at some point in the past month. Maybe the dad called in sick for work on Thursday or something like that. The only other reasons for wanting to alter the timeline are probably sinister, IMO.

I always say if it shouldn't be an issue, why is it an issue? It shouldn't make any difference when they arrived at camp or set up camp. Why is the family/LE treating it like it is important (by leaving it out/not specifying/creating a reliable timeline)? MOO

 

[rkf]

Sigh. Catching up so sorry if this was mentioned or anything. If the PI does know DeOrr Sr. and he is not certified as a PI (which I believe there are certifications for this, or licenses of some sort), would this mean that anything he says is merely speculation and opinion as opposed to fact as well? Like, yes if he states something in MSM we can quote the article, but because he's not officially LE, does that mean what he states is not true fact? In which case, he's not really adding much to any of the FACTS of this case in my opinion. Hope I'm not wrong or violating any TOS, just my opinion and based off of all the previous he said/she thus far.... Kinda like a rumor in MSM but that's it, no? :-/

The PI is not LE. You or I could go to Idaho and say we're PIs. (We would only have to get a business license.) There is no PI license requirement and this PI isn't a member of the larger PI professional associations in Idaho which do have minimum requirements for membership. I'm thinking of him more as a family spokesperson, so hopefully he will provide information that the family is too traumatized to share. JMO

 

[Jules71]

Was there anything in msm about the 'missing' shirts the mom and dad were seen wearing in the PI's interview? Like a fundraiser or an event that I missed? Or did mom and dad just have a couple shirts made to wear for the spot on this video? I saw a green bracelet too and wondered about that. Has anyone seen a fundraiser selling the tshirts and bracelets?

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[Eileen730]

Does anyone else think if all of us websleuthers went out to the campground for a few hours we could find him if he is indeed there? I just feel like he is either nearby and/or in the creek. He is TWO.

Something isn't right here. They're either not looking hard enough, he isn't there, or he was never there. IMO.

In all my years reading here I think many many many missing are found within 5 miles of where they went missing.

search
search
search
search again

 

[desert-blue]

I always say if it shouldn't be an issue, why is it an issue? It shouldn't make any difference when they arrived at camp or set up camp. Why is the family/LE treating it like it is important (by leaving it out/not specifying/creating a reliable timeline)? MOO

I think when you combine it with the supposed store sighting at 6:00 PM (which also remains unsubstantiated), it gives the appearance that the timeline is intentionally not being portrayed accurately and that raises red flags. An accurate timeline of events would be the very first thing that I would expect to be released in a missing child case.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

Does anyone else think if all of us websleuthers went out to the campground for a few hours we could find him if he is indeed there? I just feel like he is either nearby and/or in the creek. He is TWO.

Something isn't right here. They're either not looking hard enough, he isn't there, or he was never there. IMO.

No. I certainly do not think we could find him if professional search and rescue people trained on those conditions and living nearby cannot find a single clue. He isn't in the creek because it is tiny and they have searched and searched again. They have covered the reservoir to the best of their ability using all the tools they could find to use in order to search for him. Now...if he isn't there or was never there...the searchers have done their due diligence to put it into perspective. To find where he is...you have to know where he is not. He is not there, imo.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

I think when you combine it with the supposed store sighting at 6:00 PM (which also remains unsubstantiated), it gives the appearance that the timeline is intentionally not being portrayed accurately and that raises red flags. An accurate timeline of events would be the very first thing that I would expect to be released in a missing child case.

Agreed.

 

[Jules71]

Exactly - it seems like LE would have just said it was a false sighting by now. I think there is something to it. And I think it has something to do with the timeline. The parents wanted so badly for the sighting to be around noon, instead of 6:00. The idea of it being 4 hours after he was missing should have been alarming to them. Instead, they just insisted the clerk's time was off by 6 hours. It doesn't make sense, but then again, very little does....

I also think there is something to the store sighting. I think the clerk has been told not to answer questions and not to be interviewed. And come to think of it, I wonder if the store was advised by LE to say they don't have working cameras. Think about it, would the store really admit to any Joe Blow that called or asked that they don't have cameras or have working cameras? If they have non-working cameras up, they would want people to think they work. If they do not have cameras at all, I don't think they'd want that known.

Maybe the real rumor was the clerk called LE and said she saw the Dad in there but didn't see Jr - and maybe that's why Sr emphasized they went to the store as a family (implying Jr was in the truck with mom).
But then that wouldn't match up with mom seeing the guy starring at Jr.

I just really wonder about the cameras or lack of.

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[StacyMarie83]

IMO there is waaay more to extreme picky eating than just being spoiled. But this is completely OT and not even related to this case.

The PI said the parents bought him fries up in Lemhi which probably meant Leadore. We know they went to the Stage Stop so they probably got the fries there or maybe at the cafe owned by the RSO 250 feet away.

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Well of course kids can legitimately not like something or suffer from ARFID (not common). But there are over 800 vegetables and thousands of fruits to choose from - so the chance of them not liking, literally, thousands of fruits and vegetables is a little far fetched. IMO It's easier to feed them french fries rather than trying a million different things. Definitely far OT. Just something I felt I needed to respond to

The RSO owning a food shop when food was early mentioned (before the family, most likely, knew there was an RSO owner) is very worrisome to me. So is the RSO with the park ranger station address. A perfect opportunity, especially if there was not many people there at that time.

 

[starfire]

Sigh. Catching up so sorry if this was mentioned or anything. If the PI does know DeOrr Sr. and he is not certified as a PI (which I believe there are certifications for this, or licenses of some sort), would this mean that anything he says is merely speculation and opinion as opposed to fact as well? Like, yes if he states something in MSM we can quote the article, but because he's not officially LE, does that mean what he states is not true fact? In which case, he's not really adding much to any of the FACTS of this case in my opinion. Hope I'm not wrong or violating any TOS, just my opinion and based off of all the previous he said/she thus far.... Kinda like a rumor in MSM but that's it, no? :-/

Not all states require state licensing of PIs. Apparently Idaho is one of them.

Though some Idaho cities have their own licensing criteria, Idaho has no statewide licensing requirement for private investigators.
http://www.piai.us/

 

[starfire]

Of all the things we haven't been told, the one thing I would love to hear is great-grandpa's account.

Me too. I feel so bad for the guy. He probably believes he is responsible for Deorr going missing, even though I don't think the parents even asked him to watch Deorr. It must be killing him.

 

[Jules71]

Has this been posted? Sbm

"Detective Frank Vilt was critical of the Lemhi County Sheriff's office for failing to follow up on potential leads.* One of them was a tip from a woman who said she saw a boy matching DeOrr's description in Caldwell, Idaho.* The boy was with a man in a gold van with Oklahoma license plates."

Luke Jones talked about the case with Vilt today.* Tune in for more details with Eyewitness News at 5:30 and Local News 8 at 6 p.m.

http://m.localnews8.com/news/private-detective-joins-search-for-missing-toddler/34678944



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