GUILTY ID - Doomsday Cult Victims - Joshua Vallow, Tylee Ryan, Tammy Daybell *Arrests* #77

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IMO Chad knows he's going to prison. He'd rather stay in jail in St. Anthony. So he wants to delay trial as long as possible. Much easier for family etc. to visit. He wants his supporters close to him as long as possible. Once he moves to prison in the Boise Valley desert, or wherever, he knows he's pretty much cut off from this support.

If he's been offered a deal, I guess my theory doesn't work.
 
Chad is using his right to 2 death qualified attorneys. JP should have quit a year ago. Staying on for free did not benefit him or his client, unless delay was one of the goals. Chances of DP being taken off the table for Chad were minimal. Had JP succeeded, would he have turned into Chad's public defender?
My thought is Prior took his actions with the intention to obtain the best possible legal outcome for his client.

Now the State is basically forced to choose between a big delay for justice or taking DP off the table. (JP said he'd accept appointment as public defender.)

If there is a delay, there is more time to put the blame on Lori and Alex, with the added bonus that by all appearances Lori remains unwilling to put the blame on Chad, and this will get more publicized at Lori's trial, where Alex will be held up as the only murderer, if there was a murder at all.

If DP is taken off the table, that is a huge victory for his client. And it improves potential plea bargaining, too. The State, which must be motivated to reach a plea agreement for financial reasons, would now have to offer better than life without parole times three to Chad. Otherwise Chad would certainly go to trial having nothing to lose.

MOO
 
The biggest win prior can hope for is getting DP off the table, and if the the State wishes to avoid delaying the trial, Prior's motion could be a gambit to have the state remove the possibility, removing the need for DP qualified council. Then, he could negotiate cost saving confessions later. From a stronger position.

I hate to admit this, but I do not see how Prior's client can do anything but benefit from this motion.

Yuck, though. I need brain bleach.

Im going to visualize Laughing's lovely duck pond park to clean my head.

MOO


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I read every single bit of what was posted here during LVD’s trial. And even though it was her trial, because there is so much commingling of her and Chad, as far as evidence, I came away from Lori‘s trial feeling like there was even more evidence that showed Chad’s culpability. He has to know that he is completely totally sunk when this goes to trial.
 
Prior seems smart to me, doing what attorneys do. Staying as long as he could use up any monies Chad had. Then making sure Chad gets two DP attorneys.
Prior gets to walk away. The DP attorneys get to possibly reduce the penalty to life without parole. In worst case scenario, Chad going to death row is delayed.
And finally, Prior can sell Chads house. The house where Tammy and murdered.

ETA: Prior should burn it to the ground. Then sell the land.

This is pretty much how I see it as well. Seems pretty calculated.
 
I read every single bit of what was posted here during LVD’s trial. And even though it was her trial, because there is so much commingling of her and Chad, as far as evidence, I came away from Lori‘s trial feeling like there was even more evidence that showed Chad’s culpability. He has to know that he is completely totally sunk when this goes to trial.
Things as awful as the crimes committed by Chad and Lori (allegedly in C's case) are hard to measure in degrees.

But I agree. If they can be compared at all, Chad's crimes come off as more horrific.

And to the mutual abuse and manipulation: C on L and L on C? I think that CAN be measured in degrees. IMO C was absolutely more abusive to L. than the other way around. It's hard to muster up any sympathy for L., though, considering she hurt Joe and Charles more than C. hurt her.

MOO
 
The prosecutor RW told Lori's sister SS that at some point Lori was ready to talk but Chad, who was free at the time (meaning that the children were still missing), persuaded her not to (I'd like to hear how that went down). That was before her case was paused for mental health issues. After her trial, I wonder if there was any truth to RW's claim. I can't believe she was ever close to waking up from her delusions. Maybe she would have just made up another story. Did she ever even consider betraying Chad? I'd also like to know what made her attorney MM call for her mental evaluation that found her unfit.

ETA: Speaking of MM, he recently complained about the police/prosecution's (but also journalistic) bias upon Lori's extradition to Arizona:
 
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The prosecutor RW told Lori's sister SS that at some point Lori was ready to talk but Chad, who was free at the time (meaning that the children were still missing), persuaded her not to (I'd like to hear how that went down). That was before her case was paused for mental health issues. After her trial, I wonder if there was any truth to RW's claim. I can't believe she was ever close to waking up from her delusions. Maybe she would have just made up another story. Did she ever even consider betraying Chad? I'd also like to know what made her attorney MM call for her mental evaluation that found her unfit.

ETA: Speaking of MM, he recently complained about the police/prosecution's (but also journalistic) bias upon Lori's extradition to Arizona:

(You are often my eyes on sources I am curious about, but just can't stomach enough to eat. This lawyer being one of them. Thanks for chewing it up and spitting it out for me.)

I think it is possible that RW was referring to Lori being ready to spit out the whole translated being/preparing for the 144,000/doing Jesus' work story...thus admitting to illegal actions without remorse or regret. The deal would be prosecution removes death and possibly adds a lifetime of the comfort of knowing believers heard her side, in exchange for her full confession with explanation, saving the costs of a death penalty trial.

I have always agreed that it would make his defense more difficult, because she would have to inculpate him too, in breaking worldly laws. But Chad still would have a chance to play the "caught up in the net of a delusional black widow," defense better than now, IMO. Lori could speak her deluded truth, and Chad could laugh it off and say, she just got crazier and crazier. I should have known she and her crazy brain-damaged brother would have killed. I had thought Chad took a bigger chance letting Lori go to trial and be influenced by her attorneys ther, than by letting her make that kind of confession.

That is a little different than talking along the lines of "Chad told me I would be unsafe from demons if I did not kill my children," which is a fair approximation of what he said and she gobbled up, although she absolutely has never used this as an excuse. If she confessed to being controlled by Chad, manipulated by Chad, afraid of Chad, it would be a more uphill battle, IMO. But she seemed 100% opposed to ever making such statements, so I had thought, why would Chad talk her out of it?

Either way, Chad's general defense seems to be Lori and Alex did it, and anything I did nearby was only because of being pulled by the storm. I think that defense is much more weakened by the second scenario. The first scenario, IMO, wouldn't harm him any more than her trial did.

(And, of course, his defense is a ridiculous defense anyway, but I'm sure some rapy jurors could feel sorry for him if they want to justify male privilege. And plenty of female jurors might be inclined to blame women more, too.)

At first I thought that if the first scenario was going down, Chad wouldn't have lost anything. And he is lucky that Lori did not change her mind during her trial and allow her lawyers to blame him. We know vindictive Lori has no boundaries. I thought, why did he risk her going to trial and turning on him there?

But now I get why letting Lori go to trial first was better for Chad. Her statements could change, and Chads glow might be lost when he blames Lori and Alex for everything and mocks Lori for believing the second coming BS. (Not saying Jesus is never coming back, I wouldn't know, just saying it was BS that Chad had special insight into the deets.) If he repeats enough times that he never believed it and just wanted to be with a hot blonde, she could turn on him hard. But now, any turning on him will not be with the help of her defense lawyers. She lost the ability to tangibly benefit from stepping down to earth.

I hope Lori turns on Chad and on herself in the future. I hope she turns on some of her prepper family members and "Visions of Glory." I hope she apologizes to countless people. I know it's never going to happen. At least not until dozens of doomsdays have been anticipated and passed uneventfully, and dozens of charlatans have profited, thousands of believers ripped off. But I do keep hope even for that wretched person to show some humanity-to understand why she deserves no mercy.

MOO
 
(You are often my eyes on sources I am curious about, but just can't stomach enough to eat. This lawyer being one of them. Thanks for chewing it up and spitting it out for me.)

I think it is possible that RW was referring to Lori being ready to spit out the whole translated being/preparing for the 144,000/doing Jesus' work story...thus admitting to illegal actions without remorse or regret. The deal would be prosecution removes death and possibly adds a lifetime of the comfort of knowing believers heard her side, in exchange for her full confession with explanation, saving the costs of a death penalty trial.

I have always agreed that it would make his defense more difficult, because she would have to inculpate him too, in breaking worldly laws. But Chad still would have a chance to play the "caught up in the net of a delusional black widow," defense better than now, IMO. Lori could speak her deluded truth, and Chad could laugh it off and say, she just got crazier and crazier. I should have known she and her crazy brain-damaged brother would have killed. I had thought Chad took a bigger chance letting Lori go to trial and be influenced by her attorneys ther, than by letting her make that kind of confession.

That is a little different than talking along the lines of "Chad told me I would be unsafe from demons if I did not kill my children," which is a fair approximation of what he said and she gobbled up, although she absolutely has never used this as an excuse. If she confessed to being controlled by Chad, manipulated by Chad, afraid of Chad, it would be a more uphill battle, IMO. But she seemed 100% opposed to ever making such statements, so I had thought, why would Chad talk her out of it?

Either way, Chad's general defense seems to be Lori and Alex did it, and anything I did nearby was only because of being pulled by the storm. I think that defense is much more weakened by the second scenario. The first scenario, IMO, wouldn't harm him any more than her trial did.

(And, of course, his defense is a ridiculous defense anyway, but I'm sure some rapy jurors could feel sorry for him if they want to justify male privilege. And plenty of female jurors might be inclined to blame women more, too.)

At first I thought that if the first scenario was going down, Chad wouldn't have lost anything. And he is lucky that Lori did not change her mind during her trial and allow her lawyers to blame him. We know vindictive Lori has no boundaries. I thought, why did he risk her going to trial and turning on him there?

But now I get why letting Lori go to trial first was better for Chad. Her statements could change, and Chads glow might be lost when he blames Lori and Alex for everything and mocks Lori for believing the second coming BS. (Not saying Jesus is never coming back, I wouldn't know, just saying it was BS that Chad had special insight into the deets.) If he repeats enough times that he never believed it and just wanted to be with a hot blonde, she could turn on him hard. But now, any turning on him will not be with the help of her defense lawyers. She lost the ability to tangibly benefit from stepping down to earth.

I hope Lori turns on Chad and on herself in the future. I hope she turns on some of her prepper family members and "Visions of Glory." I hope she apologizes to countless people. I know it's never going to happen. At least not until dozens of doomsdays have been anticipated and passed uneventfully, and dozens of charlatans have profited, thousands of believers ripped off. But I do keep hope even for that wretched person to show some humanity-to understand why she deserves no mercy.

MOO
Not only does Lori not acknowledge any guilt in the murders (part of her "doesn't count for me" mentality), she doesn't accuse anyone else either (although she repeatedly blamed others for her own shortcomings in the past, especially when cornered). She admits to experiencing visitations by the victims, but keeps mum on zombies. It's all about perception and face saving. To the public, she wants to portray herself as a regular Mormon who did nothing wrong. She did not bring shame on her family. Certainly did not murder her children. Nobody did, that didn't happen.
I think she might have made a pact with Chad. Somehow they might have been communicating while in jail and he made assurances to her that she bought. He still holds power over her. IMO she believes that one day in not too distant future, prison walls will come down and she'll be free because she is special.
 
Not only does Lori not acknowledge any guilt in the murders (part of her "doesn't count for me" mentality), she doesn't accuse anyone else either (although she repeatedly blamed others for her own shortcomings in the past, especially when cornered). She admits to experiencing visitations by the victims, but keeps mum on zombies. It's all about perception and face saving. To the public, she wants to portray herself as a regular Mormon who did nothing wrong. She did not bring shame on her family. Certainly did not murder her children. Nobody did, that didn't happen.
I think she might have made a pact with Chad. Somehow they might have been communicating while in jail and he made assurances to her that she bought. He still holds power over her. IMO she believes that one day in not too distant future, prison walls will come down and she'll be free because she is special.
She could have communicated if attorneys were willing to convey messages they each received with their respective confidential communications.

The risk comes in if the attorneys don't collude for ethical or strategic reasons.

MOO
 
Thursday, January 18th:
*Oral Arguments Hearing (Motion to withdraw as Counsel) (@ 10am MT) – ID – Joshua Jaxon (JJ) Vallow (7) & Tylee Ashlyn Ryan (16) (JJ last seen Sept. 23, 2019 & Tylee on Sept. 9, 2019, Rexburg; found June 9, 2020 buried in Daybell’s yard in Salem, ID) & Tamara “Tammy” Michelle Douglas Daybell (49) (died on Oct. 19, 2019 at her residence in Salem, ID; dob 5/4/70). – *Chad Guy Daybell (53/now 55) arrested (6/9/20) & indicted (5/25/21) & charged (5/26/21) & arraigned (6/9/21) with Count 1 (for Tylee): Conspiracy to commit 1st degree murder & grand theft by deception (for Daybell, Vallow & Alex Cox) & other co-conspirators. Count 2 (for Tylee): 1st d egree murder. Count 3 (for JJ): Conspiracy to commit 1st degree murder & grand theft by deception. Count 4 (for JJ): 1st degree murder. Count 5 (for Tammy, 49, died 10/19/19): Conspiracy to commit 1st degree murder. Count 6 (for Tammy): 1st degree murder. Count 8 & 9: Insurance Fraud (Two counts of insurance fraud related to 2 different life insurance policies he had on Tammy). Plead not guilty. No bond. DA will seek DP.
Trial set to begin on 4/1/24 (thru 5/31). Trial will be held in Ada County.
Judge Steven W. Boyce presiding. Prosecutors: Lindsey Blake, Rob Wood & Rachel Smith & defense attorneys Jim Archibald & John Thomas.

Previous charges, Grand jury indictment & Court info from 6/10/20 thru 12/5/23 reference post #250 here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...bell-charles-vallow-arrests-77.686529/page-13

12/20/23 Update: Judge Boyce denies Daybell's motion to strike death penalty. See posts #239 & 240 on page 12. The judge denied the motion to strike the death penalty based on relative culpability & the claim that Daybell is being disproportionally punished for waiving his right to a speedy trial. Judge Boyce issued a written decision Tuesday denying the motion & said it’s up to a jury to decide whether Daybell should face the death penalty. Next motions hearing on 12/28/23.
12/30/23 Update: on 12/8/23 Update: Notice of trail setting, pretrial conference & scheduling order governing further proceedings filed. Next motions hearing on 1/30/24 @ 9:30am. All discovery must be completed & served on or before 5pm 2/1/24. Expert witness deadline is on or before 5pm 2/1/24. Final pretrial conference is on 2/22/24 @ 9:30am. The defendant's appearance is required. All plea agreements shall be reduced to writing. Jury questionnaire is due to the Court by 1/5/24. Proposed jury instructions must be submitted by the parties to the Court by 5pm on 3/11/24. Exhibit & Witness lists shall be submitted by the parties to the Court by 5pm on 3/11/24. So ordered by Judge Stephen Boyce.
1/12/24 Update: John Prior, Daybell’s attorney, says his client has been declared indigent by the court & can no longer afford his services. He has filed to withdraw from the upcoming murder case Friday. “Mr. Daybell does not have the ability to pay for counsel’s continued services & Mr. Daybell seeks the appointment of two capital qualified attorneys to present him in this matter,” the motion stated. According to the motion, Daybell has consented to the motion for Prior to withdraw. Prior said since Daybell is facing the death penalty & does not have money, he is entitled to the appointment of two attorneys who are “capital-qualified” at the state’s expense. Judge Steve Boyce said he's not sealing Prior's BS & set a hearing for 1/18/24 at 10am for arguments for motion to withdraw as counsel. 1/17/24 Update: State files Objection to Motion to withdraw.
*Lori Norene Vallow aka Lori Norene Daybell (46/now 50) – Fremont County: Trial started on 4/10/23 & ended 5/10/23. 5/12/23: Guilty of all charges. Sentenced (7/31/23) to 3 consecutive life without parole sentence. 8/31/23 Update: Jim Archibald, Vallow's attorney has filed a Notice of Appeal & a motion to appoint state appellate public defender. New appeal attorney Craig Durham.
 

[…]

For the State's part, there are five attorneys from two county offices, including an out-of-state attorney who specializes in similarly complex trials. Prior says that at this point he has worked for nearly a year to find a suitable replacement without success, and would have to work for nearly four more months around the clock without pay if he stays on through the trial.

The hearing has been set for January 18, 2024, at 10 a.m. CBS2 will continue to update you as more information becomes available in this case.

[…]
 
On the Docket today showed an “Order to Unseal August 25, 2023 Order on Motion to Appoint Co-Counsel”

If Chad’s attorney requested co counsel back in August, and was denied, that’s going to be interesting to hear about. Maybe that’s why the State’s objection focused on wanting proof Chad has no money?

Either way, if he asked back in August, it’s not so much a “last minute night before trial surprise” JMOO
 
When responding to the judges questions, Prior sounds like he has hit repeat, repeat, repeat on a tape recorder.

Now they are going into a closed courtroom to discuss what Prior has in terms of his defense.

They will go live again after that.
 
The prosecution's motion to deny JP's motion to withdraw is now available on Twitter/X. They claim that they were not aware of Chad's indigency until now and that it's unclear if Chad waived his right to a publicly funded counsel when he became indigent.
 

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