ID - Doomsday Cult Victims - Joshua Vallow - Tylee Ryan - Tammy Daybell - Charles Vallow - *Arrests* #67

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I could almost swear MG used that term in an interview. Which if that isn't a mainstream LDS thing, was this little cult branching out more to FLDS? I'll dig around. All JMO because it sparked a memory.

That's the conclusion I reached when researching earlier on. Maybe not exactly FLDS but something more like Restorationists (I think that's the name... not sure).
 
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its a disappointment that the trials will not be televised. the families of the victims did plead with the court to lift the ban. I guess we all are disappointed! Daybell was on board with televising. (curious)

LV wants it both ways from what I read of her motion in January. saying she is "still suffering from a mental illness" but will not present that in the guilt phase as a defense....but if found guilty, she will call mental health expert witnesses to mitigate sentencing. I dont get that.

and then the 'use immunity' talked about regarding Zulema Pastenes...anyone have thoughts about that?
Zulema was way up in all of it with both Chad and Lori and Alex based on the text messages alone. Ultimately I think she was just another tool like Alex, who craved relevance and belonging and lots of attention. They manipulated and played her sohard and consistently while they eradicated zombies and she controlled earthquakes and such.

I can't wait to hear what she has to say on the stand if I can even stand listening to her that long!
 
I'm convinced that Alex murdered Joe Ryan. Joe's body was in a state of decomposition when found and was ruled a natural death due to heart disease, but Alex hated Joe Ryan (Tylee's bio dad).

Alex also attempted to murder Tammy Daybell (the earlier "paintball" incident) and was identified as the shooter who attempted to assassinate Brandon Boudreaux. Alex' phone pinged not far from the Daybell home when Tammy died. I'm convinced that Alex was somehow also involved in Tammy's murder.

I'm not a psychiatrist and don't play one on TV, but I think Alex was likely a psychopath and I don't think all the murders Alex committed relative to Lori and Chad were his first murder rodeo.

Alex was also the only person with Lori's sister, Stacey (Melani's mother), when she died in 1998. Stacey had had mental health issues for a while, so there is not likely any "smoking gun" here. However, as many in this family felt "they could get away with anything"... one does have to wonder. The entire family was in Hawaii. Except for Alex staying with Stacey.

 
I'm just waiting for the judge to make an order forbidding jurors from talking about the case after the trial. Nothing would surprise me, with the way this process is being conceal

That's not possible. Once the trial is over (so that rendering justice fairly is no longer an issue), a juror's obligation to the court ends (it's a freedom of speech issue) and they can say whatever they want about the case (or, if they wish, nothing at all).
 
I'm convinced that Alex murdered Joe Ryan. Joe's body was in a state of decomposition when found and was ruled a natural death due to heart disease, but Alex hated Joe Ryan (Tylee's bio dad).

Alex also attempted to murder Tammy Daybell (the earlier "paintball" incident) and was identified as the shooter who attempted to assassinate Brandon Boudreaux. Alex' phone pinged not far from the Daybell home when Tammy died. I'm convinced that Alex was somehow also involved in Tammy's murder.

I'm not a psychiatrist and don't play one on TV, but I think Alex was likely a psychopath and I don't think all the murders Alex committed relative to Lori and Chad were his first murder rodeo.
Remember Alex said he would do anything for Lori. And she is the one person involved in ALL these deaths.
 
That's not possible. Once the trial is over (so that rendering justice fairly is no longer an issue), a juror's obligation to the court ends (it's a freedom of speech issue) and they can say whatever they want about the case (or, if they wish, nothing at all).

I don't think that comment was meant to be taken seriously. jmo
 
Say what now? That's news to me!

MOO
I was referring to Chad's email to Alex from 11/24/19 (days before the welfare check and weeks before Alex's death), which contained a patriarchal blessing.

Excerpt:
"...you accepted the Savior's invitation to come to this mortal realm one more time in the 5th creation, to condescend as a God to help us. You have already assisted us in ways that can never be repaid, but you will continue to do so as you move forward in this life."

 
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<snipped for focus>

LV wants it both ways from what I read of her motion in January. saying she is "still suffering from a mental illness" but will not present that in the guilt phase as a defense....but if found guilty, she will call mental health expert witnesses to mitigate sentencing. I dont get that.

It’s more understandable if you consider that Idaho doesn’t accept insanity defenses.
 
It’s more understandable if you consider that Idaho doesn’t accept insanity defenses.
yes, mental condition as a 'defense'.


state of mind....kind of the backdoor.


if convicted, she wants to have less restrictive confinement in a treatment center to avoid going to prison right away. but of course, its not a given if convicted she would obtain treatment. whole other process for sentencing.

 
I agree. If CD is going with a not guilty plea, he's going to need to convince the jury that he's just a normal, everyday LDS guy who just happened to cross paths with the real killers (LVD and/or Alex) but had no idea what they planned to do. And to convince anyone that he was ignorant of what they planned, he's going to have to convince the jury that the real killer misconstrued the things that he was telling them, which were obviously totally "normal" LDS beliefs (and/or works of fiction).

(Obviously, it's going to be a different, more difficult hurdle to explain away any physical evidence that places him at the scene of any of these deaths, but with the way the media has latched onto the cult aspect of this, he has to know that the things he taught are going to come up.)

MOO
Do you think he could or will use that to explain away his wife's death?
 
I was referring to Chad's email to Alex from 11/24/19 (days before the welfare check and weeks before Alex's death), which contained a patriarchal blessing.

Excerpt:
"...you accepted the Savior's invitation to come to this mortal realm one more time in the 5th creation, to condescend as a God to help us. You have already assisted us in ways that can never be repaid, but you will continue to do so as you move forward in this life."

Not to nitpick, but wouldn't it be descend rather than condescend? Not that the correct word would make it any more sane.
 
Not to nitpick, but wouldn't it be descend rather than condescend? Not that the correct word would make it any more sane.
It makes sense to me. I don't know if it's because I understand how LDS talk in these things, or because I've got a big vocabulary, or both. I think both.

To condescend is to do something that's beneath your status, that is 'dirty work' or demeaning, in some way.

Reading between the lines, in my honest opinion, he's being thanked for working as their hitman, despite his 'godly' status.

A patriarchal blessing is an interesting thing, by the way, one of the things that I feel is closest to the divination roots of the early church that still remains mainstream, and it makes sense that Chad would misuse it in this way to manipulate his loyal followers.

MOO
 
It makes sense to me. I don't know if it's because I understand how LDS talk in these things, or because I've got a big vocabulary, or both. I think both.

To condescend is to do something that's beneath your status, that is 'dirty work' or demeaning, in some way.

Reading between the lines, in my honest opinion, he's being thanked for working as their hitman, despite his 'godly' status.

A patriarchal blessing is an interesting thing, by the way, one of the things that I feel is closest to the divination roots of the early church that still remains mainstream, and it makes sense that Chad would misuse it in this way to manipulate his loyal followers.

MOO
Just adding to what I said here about language, and why I interpret it the way I do.

When LDS pray, or give blessings that include a degree of divination/prophecy (infant blessing, confirmation after baptism, blessing for the sick, grieving, or troubled, and patriarchal blessings are all forms of this) they speak using fairly antiquated language.

The usage of condescend in this way is distinctly nineteenth century and earlier.

Take this line from Mr Collins in Pride and Prejudice about his beloved patron, Lady Catherine de Bourgh:

“I need not say you will be delighted with her. She is all affability and condescension.”

Now, this reads differently to a modern audience because though far from affable, Lady Catherine is indeed full of self importance and rude to anyone she deems beneath her.

But that's not how Mr Collins, or indeed Austen, probably meant it. (Or if Austen intended it that way, which it's entirely possible she did, she knew her contemporary audience would understand the double meaning.)

What he was saying was that she was kind, generous, and took the time to acknowledge and interact with those of lower status in her role, by birth, as one of higher society, called noblesse oblige. The obligation of the upper to the lower classes. Look at Bridgerton and Daphne's well-meaning failure to judge the pigs. Her actions upset the entire order of things because she didn't understand her role. Her handing out of gifts to the villagers is also part of her 'noble obligations'.

So, much like Mr Collins, Chad is acknowledging Alex's kindness to condescend to undertake work, which, as a God, is below him, for the good of the cult. He's saying, you didn't have to do this, but you did, and there's no way we can repay you, and there will be more work for you in the future.

MOO
 
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That's the conclusion I reached when researching earlier on. Maybe not exactly FLDS but something more like Restorationists (I think that's the name... not sure).
I'll look that up. While I'm curious about a few things, I'm not really convinced fringe beliefs will have that much bearing on a verdict. There's plenty of evidence showing they're just rotten killers.

I don't want to derail the thread with Mormon theology as we've all done that before.

JMO
 
Not to nitpick, but wouldn't it be descend rather than condescend? Not that the correct word would make it any more sane.
I think condescend is the correct word in context. Based upon their goobley gook, Alex "accepted" the invitation to lower himself back to being a mortal. That seems to be how "condescend" is used in the Mormon Bible.


JMO
 
Do you think he could or will use that to explain away his wife's death?
Without Tammy's autopsy results public, it's hard to tell exactly what physical evidence Chad's going to have to somehow explain away when it comes to her death and that murder charge.

But if Chad's tactic is to blame Tammy's death on LVD and/or AC, he's going to have to come up with some 'logical' explanation for his dark/light zombies doctrine so that it means something other than "This person is no longer this person; they're an evil being whom we need to murder," because telling LVD & AC those things about Tammy and then her ended up dead...? Yeah, that's pretty damning.

He's going to have to argue somehow that the dark/light zombie doctrines weren't actually meant literally... that LVD and/or AC totally misunderstood what he was teaching when he said those things and that they acted on it without his knowledge.

IMO, MOO, IANAL
 
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