ID - Doomsday Cult Victims - Joshua Vallow - Tylee Ryan - Tammy Daybell - Charles Vallow - *Arrests* #70

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Trouble1321075 said:
MOO....

If there is one person who knows the truth about what was going on in Loris head I think it's her niece, Melani. I really hope she is put on the stand and asked some tough questions.

It's bad enough that she is not being charged for the attempted murder of her ex-husband. The least she can do is fill in some important blanks about her aunt for the rest of us.
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Lori will be tried for CV’s murder in Arizona after this trial ends.
 
RickshawFan said:
Tylee. That poor child. With all the excruciating stresses in her life, IMO there was no way she wasn't going to get physical manifestations. IMO. My stomach is in knots just hearing what she had to go through. I wonder if she sensed she was in terrible danger? Seeing what happened to Charles must have been alarming. And the way she was murdered, dismembered, and burned, suggests there might have been palpable malice, evil, and violence in the air at that household.
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I'm beginning to think "humble" Chad was as violent as his books. The neck scratch story. The story of Zulema being raped, killed and dismembered at 14 in a previous life. The additional info about the condition of Tylee's body- it no longer seems possible that Tylee was just a failed attempt at cremation.

MOO
 
KooshBall said:
What is wrong with Lori and CD that they wouldn't just get freaking jobs if they needed money?! They are so gross, I just can't believe people like this exist.
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Lori could work as a hair stylist, though she hadn’t done so in years, and Chad could only dig graves or crank out cheap books. Not great résumés.
 
mrjitty said:
Are we expected to believe Alex decided to murder Tylee without the involvement of Lori, then hid the body on Chad's property again without the duo noticing anything, then with Tylee actually missing Lori thought she'd better cover that up ... then Alex murders her other kid and she was like great now i can go on holiday?

That's the defence - before you even get to the stuff that specifically incriminates her

This is all so stupid I can't get my head around it. When they turned up in hawaii on camera it just seemed too insane that they could have murdered the kids and their partners, then have no story to explain any of it ...

... and yet here we are - they had an actual rating system for their victims
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Yes.

And Lori had rather conveniently presplained that JJ would be disappearing, to go and live with Kay, the one person she had cut out of his life, not for one moment considering that Kay would report him missing!
 
KonaHonu said:
But that was in November, so after the fact. Correct me if I am wrong but she is charged with:

Count 1: Conspiracy to commit murder and grand theft by deception (victim Tylee Ryan)
Count 2: First degree murder (victim Tylee Ryan)
Count 3: Conspiracy to commit murder and grand theft by deception (victim JJ Vallow)
Count 4: First degree murder (victim JJ Vallow)
Count 5: Conspiracy to commit first degree murder (victim Tammy Daybell)
Count 6: First degree murder (victim Tammy Daybell)
Count 7: Grand theft
Count 8: Insurance fraud
Count 9: Insurance fraud

Source: original indictment posted at READ: Here is the indictment document for murder against Chad and Lori Daybell - East Idaho News

We have heard zero evidence in 3+ years that Lori participated in the actual murders so that eliminates counts 2, 4, and 6. Counts 8 and 9 seem to be only against Chad. Count 7 I think is a slam dunk against Lori and we heard evidence for that today. It is a serious charge with a penalty of up to 20 years in prison.

Now, the conspiracy counts are problematic. These require "overt acts." But most of the overt acts the State is using to support the conspiracy charges were done by Alex or Chad. The overt acts Lori is alleged to have done are moving to Idaho, not notifying Social Security, and espousing religious beliefs "for the purpose of justifying homocide of X." Since the "cult's" beliefs, basically Chad's existed long before Lori met him it's pretty hard to swallow that overt act. And we have heard no evidence that they adopted beliefs for the purpose of justifying murder. Lying to police is also included as an overt act by Lori. But again, after the fact.

I am well aware that each conspirator can be held responsible for the overt acts of another but using that to prove a conspiracy in the first place seems like circular reasoning. Might be legal but as juror I don't think I would buy that kind of twisted logic.

We are left with simply being part of the whacko religious cult as the only real evidence of a murder conspiracy.

Trust me, I want her to be convicted. But I'm just not seeing the evidence so far.
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I think they will get there. I imagine that Lori "handled" Alex more, although Chad brought him to tears with the manipulative blessing.

What I am not sure about is the grand theft. That Lori looked into what she'd get upon Charles murder before it happened is much better evidence of planning a murder than planning grand theft. She could have "forgotten" to inform SS about household changes. She'd owe the money back, not likely go to jail.

MOO
 
SteveS said:
Z and MG said that 'CD & LVD were intending to rid the world (ie kill) anyone they perceived to be "zombies" '? Statements of murderous intent would certainly be incriminating, but if they said something of that ilk, I missed it. Which reporter noted that, and when?

On the others' comments about what is/isn't objectively showing LORI to be involved in the murder/conspiracy (and not just a coverup), I don't see anything illegal or incriminating in changing bank accounts, or in a password that snipes at kids (I dare say most parents say things out of frustration over the challenges offered by kids, at one time or another).

I do think there must be MUCH more evidence coming, to provide what's missing (which is the meat in this sandwich), and to also explain why this was planned as a 6-8 week trial process. So far we've seen plenty to make us abhor Lori and to show she is an A+ #1 Superstar Self-Focused *advertiser censored**hole, who didn't act like the loss of her kids was bothering her all that much, but imo we haven't seen something to say (or prove!) SHE did it or planned it or even necessarily knew it was coming. Maybe tomorrow!
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The people participating in the "castings" (orchestrated by LVD) weren't praying for Charles nor Tammy to be transported to a safe location. Charles and Tammy were zombies per C&LVD... and wanted to be rid of them.

ETA: Safe locations don't usually involve guns and asphyxiation. (Which the jury will soon likely know about Tammy). And, they already know about the deaths of Charles, Tylee and JJ.
 
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After hearing the testimony so far as it relates to Chad, he is far more evil than I thought, if that's possible imo.

Someone said Manson vibes and I agree there are similarities. He made his little groupies feel special and important. He sent them out to do his biddings thinking his hands would stay clean.

I hope Chads family wakes up after they hear all the evidence, which is put together well. If he doesn't plea than I believe he will get the DP. He may not be put to death but he will live his life out on death row which is worse imo.
 
Deerrun said:
After hearing the testimony so far as it relates to Chad, he is far more evil than I thought, if that's possible imo.

Someone said Manson vibes and I agree there are similarities. He made his little groupies feel special and important. He sent them out to do his biddings thinking his hands would stay clean.

I hope Chads family wakes up after they hear all the evidence, which is put together well. If he doesn't plea than I believe he will get the DP. He may not be put to death but he will live his life out on death row which is worse imo.
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The only thing CD lacked to be akin to Manson was lsd/acid trips.
 
fred&edna said:
The people participating in the "castings" (orchestrated by LVD) weren't praying for Charles nor Tammy to be transported to a safe location. Charles and Tammy were zombies per C&LVD... and wanted to be rid of them.

ETA: Safe locations don't usually involve guns and asphyxiation. (Which the jury will soon likely know about both Charles and Tammy). And, they already know about the deaths of Tylee and JJ.
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They also did not bind or burn Charles & Tammy within 2 minutes after their deaths, nor did Zulema bind or burn Alex @ the time of his death. So the zombies don't enter bodies during actual deaths but only "spiritual deaths" that Chad & Lori claim to have happened & everyone just have to "believe and have faith" these people experienced a spiritual death which require all this fasting and casting but real death doesn't need all the castings, bindings, burnings, spells, special powers, prayers, and spiritual visitations?
 
BeachSky said:
I think CD saw a woman who was out of his league. He was in lust.LVD was fanning his ego. LVD was chasing money, self promotion & instant gratification. IMO Chad would of suddenly died.. once she became bored, needed drama, attention or to simply buy up$$$.

MOO
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RSBM Chad may indeed have suddenly died - and I am struggling to care.
 
KonaHonu said:
Has it been positively established that Lori and Chad are in fact legally married? I live in Hawaii but am not sure how it works here. We know they got a license and had a ceremony but was it ever recorded?

When I lived in Arizona I knew a couple who got a marriage license, had a judge marry them but then did not record the marriage. It left it in some kind of legal limbo. They had a marriage license they could show people who asked but I do not think they were legally married. Even a couple of lawyer friends could not agree on their status. Sure there are ways to correct recording errors. But this was no an error. It was a deliberate attempt to not be legally married (and actually for SS purposes). I thought they were stupid for creating this ambiguity but it went on for decades.

The reason this matters is that if Lori and Chad are not legally married she would not have to report it to Social Security. Similarly, Hawaii has many people who live here yet are legal residents of another state so I doubt they lived here long enough to have to report that. Now obviously the kids' deaths are a different matter and should have been reported
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Yes LEO has confirmed the Hawaiian wedding was legally recorded. In addition, yesterday on the stand the detective stated Lori was receiving SSI payments for the kids and herself as a survivor spouse until Jan 2020 when JJ's whereabouts could not be established. She also was not to be receiving survivor benefits for Charles if she remarried.
 
Not sure Lori's team has much of a defense for her. Very few witnesses for the defense, very few questions for the other witnesses. The only thing I can see as any defense: 1) she was not there when people died. 2) She changed after meeting Chad. 3) Her religious beliefs changed over time. Is she just going to blame Chad & Alex for brainwashing her?
 
I find it so annoying and painful the way Lori appears to be lapping up all the attention on her at her trial - maybe if she had realized sooner how much fun it would be, she wouldn't have put it off for so long (IMO). After all, what's not to like? Flaunting her clothes, hair, makeup etc, men on either side to chat and flirt with, and most of all being the centre of attention. I bet she can hardly wait for the movie.:(
 
Seeing as Lori was apparently furious that Alex couldn't be trusted to do the simplest thing on his own (ie shoot Tammy), I don't believe that it was Alex who strangled or smothered her in bed. I believe that was Chad all on his own.
 
Lori told Colby he doesn't know what happened , he doesn't know the truth, he wasn't there and someday he will know the truth.

so for me it feels like she was there at least for Tylee...either that or she has all the intimate details from someone
in which case she knows exactly what happened to them and when. mOO
 
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