ID - Doomsday Cult Victims - Joshua Vallow, Tylee Ryan, Tammy Daybell, Charles Vallow *Arrests* #71

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SPEAKERS AT THE TRIAL


LESLIE BLAKE: STATE ATTNY (summary 1, audio Apr10)
Opening statements - "The defendant used money, power, and sex to get what she wanted. It didn't matter what it was."

JAMES ARCHIBALD: DEFENSE ATTNY (summary 1, audio Apr10)
Opening statements - "The evidence will show Lori was a kind and loving mother."


KAY WOODCOCK: STATE WITNESS, grandmother of JJ (summary 1, 2, 3, audio Apr10)
CV's life insurance (Feb 2019), JJ's disappearance (Aug 2019), wedding items on CV's Amazon account (Oct 2019)
X-EXAM: establishes that KW asked LVD to raise JJ

BRANDON BORDEAUX: STATE WITNESS, ex-husb of LVD’s niece (summary 1, audio Apr10)
LE's initial involvement; attempted shooting from Jeep (Oct 2019)
X-EXAM: questions why MP thought BB was gay, questions BB’s observations of shooting

RAY HERMOSILLO: STATE WITNESS, Rexburg PD (summary 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, audio Apr11, Apr12)
Jeep surveillance, welfare check & search warrants (Nov 2019), discovery of JJ & TR bodies (Jun 2020)
X-EXAM: questions whose weapons were in garage, establishes that LVD was in HI when TD died (19 Oct 2019)

JARED WILLMORE: STATE WITNESS, Madison Co Sheriff (summary 1, audio Apr12)
CD & LVD prison phone call as bodies were discovered (Jun 2020)

JOE POWELL: STATE WITNESS, Fremont Co Sheriff (summary 1, audio Apr12)
surveillance on CD & LVD (Nov 2019), exhumation of TD's body (Dec 2019)
X-EXAM: establishes that LVD was in HI when TD died (19 Oct 2019)

MELANIE GIBB: STATE WITNESS, friend of LVD (summary 1, 2, 3, 4, audio Apr13) OBJ
CD & LVD's initial meeting (Oct 2018), CD & LVD's shared beliefs & affair; CD & LVD's phone call with MG (Dec 2019), MG & DW's visit to LVD's on last day JJ was seen (22 Sep 2019)
X-EXAM: asks about religious beliefs, emphasizes all LVD did for her children

NATHAN DUNCAN: STATE WITNESS, Chandler PD (summary 1, 2, audio Apr13, Apr14)
shooting of CV (Jul 2019), CD's call to mortuary (Jul 2019), CD's blessing to AC (Jun 2019), "CV"'s email to CD & CV's emails to TD (Jun 2019), texts from CV to LVD (Jul 2019), texts between CD & LVD about CV's insurance (Jul 2019), AC's "2manykids" text to LVD (Sep 2019)

ZULEMA PASTENES: STATE WITNESS, wife of AC (summary 1, 2, 3, audio Apr14, Apr18)
CD & LVD's initial meeting (Oct 2018), CD & LVD's shared beliefs & affair; "Idiot can't do anything right by himself" on night TD was shot at (Oct 2019), "I think I'm being their fall guy" (Dec 2019)
X-EXAM: asks about religious beliefs

COLBY RYAN: STATE WITNESS, son of LVD (summary 1, 2, audio Apr18)
financial issues; prison phone call between CR & LVD (Jul? 2020)
X-EXAM: asks about religious beliefs, emphasizes all LVD did for her children

MIKE SAARI: STATE WITNESS, Social Security Administration (summary 1, audio Apr18)
social security payments

CHUCK KUNSAITIS: STATE WITNESS, Rexburg PD (summary 1, 2, audio Apr18, Apr19)
bank statements, prescriptions, flights

MIKE DOUGLASS: STATE WITNESS, FBI (summary 1, 2, audio Apr19)
timelines of financials

SCOTT COWDEN: STATE WITNESS, Chandler FD paramedic (summary 1, audio Apr19) OBJ
AC did not provide CPR to CV after shooting (11 Jul 2019)

AIREL WERTHER: STATE WITNESS, Chandler PD homicide (summary 1, audio Apr19) OBJ
following up with LVD after CV's death (11 Jul 2019)
X-EXAM: establishes that AC called 911, establishes that JJ & TR were both with LVD day of shooting

SANDRA YNCLAN: STATE WITNESS, Chandler PD homicide (summary 1, audio Apr19) OBJ
interviewed LVD & TD after CV's death (11 Jul 2019)
X-EXAM: establishes that AC was not arrested after CV’s death

APRIL RAYMOND: STATE WITNESS, friend of LVD (summary 1, audio Apr19)
*exclusionary issue - listened to Jason Lum’s interview with a cousin of LVD
LVD & TR's stay in HI, LVD was "done with JJ" (Feb 2019)
X-EXAM: asks about religious beliefs

NATHAN MOFFATT: STATE WITNESS, Chandler PD (summary 1, audio Apr20) OBJ
CV’s death & inconsistencies in interviews (11 Jul 2019)

SYDNEY WOODBURY SCHENK: STATE WITNESS, JJ’s babysitter (summary 1, audio Apr20)
Babysitting JJ (18-19 Sep 2019)
X-EXAM: establishes that witness thought she would be babysitting JJ long-term

JOSH WILSON: STATE WITNESS, Kennedy Elementary Principal (summary 1, audio Apr20)
JJ’s school attendance in Rexburg (3-20 Sep 2019)
X-EXAM: establishes that witness thought JJ would be attending school there long-term

WYNN HILL: STATE WITNESS, BYU-I Dean (summary 1, audio Apr20)
TR never applied or enrolled at BYU-I

DAVID WARWICK: STATE WITNESS, friend of LVD & husband of MG (summary 1, audio Apr20)
*exclusionary issue - listened to 45m of wife MG’s testimony OBJ
Introduced to LVD by MG in AZ (Aug 2019), visit to LVD’s in Rexburg (20-23 Sep 2019)
X-EXAM: asks about religious beliefs/visions

BRUCE MATTINGLY: STATE WITNESS, Fremont Co Sheriff (summary 1, audio Apr20)
Seized electronic evidence from Daybell home (Jan 2020)

BENJAMIN DEAN: STATE WITNESS, FBI analyst (summary 1, audio Apr20)
TD’s cell phone data, including raccoon text (9 Sep 2019)

DAVE STUBBS: STATE WITNESS, Rexburg PD (summary 1, 2, 3, audio Apr20, audio Apr24)
Travel records, email, Fitbit, prescription, cell phones, insurance records; search for TR’s Jeep & welfare check (Nov 2019); wedding photos (Nov 2019)
X-EXAM: asks about forensic training, reiterates that only AC was at both locations on key dates

NICOLE HEIDEMAN: STATE WITNESS, FBI (summary 1, 2, audio Apr24)
CD & LVD Google searches, temple visit dates (Nov 2018-Oct 2019)
X-EXAM: asks about search results

NICK BALLANCE: STATE WITNESS, FBI (summary 1, audio Apr24)
Cell phone data location ‘pings’ (Sep 2019)
 
Gardenista said:
Click to expand...

Definitely one to bookmark in your ' to watch' folders.
I don't know where to begin - so much to unpack ( Lots of disturbing stuff about Barry, Janis, Alex, the death of Stacy, the family culture, Lori's ambition, her precocious sexualised behaviour -compared to most LDS girls that era?- & her interest in death pre Chad)

Thanks for posting this link. Hope other members will get a chance to listen & then we can discuss some of it.
 
KonaHonu said:
My observation so far is that the prosecution is presenting a case against a conspiracy involving Chad, Alex, and Lori, But so far they have presented almost nothing to show Lori's involvement. Today we heard pretty damning testimony to the contrary from detective Stubbs:

Thomas has one more question: “Did you ever see anything from Lori saying, ‘I’m going to kill the kids?’ ‘Let’s kill the kids?’ ‘Kill the kids?'” Stubbs says, “No” to all the questions. Thomas: “Based on anything you’ve seen, is there anything in there where Lori had texted or emailed – any type of data that says anything about wanting to kill her children?” Stubbs says, “No.”

In summary, the police detective said there is NO evidence Lori was involved in killing her kids.

While I do think she was involved in a plan I think the evidence is extremely weak:

- Who cares if they were shopping for wedding rings? Chad convinced her he expected his wife to be dead of natural causes very soon. A girl can dream. And these two were so whacko that malachite could very well have had a spiritual meaning.
- They texted about the "plan." It was in the context of talking about Kauai so I would take that as the plan to go to Kauai.

As someone who wants to see her convicted I am extremely disappointed in the prosecution's case so far. I'm not saying they are not doing a good job. Just that they have almost no evidence against Lori. They are presenting a case against Chad and Alex and hoping they can get conspiracy in there somehow without any real evidence.

Please show me a lext where Lori says "they'll all be out of the way soon" or something to that effect. She is NOT too smart not to have sent something like that if there was a plan.

All I'm convinced of so far is that they hoped to get married if the cards played out. That might be a conspiracy but not a crime.
Click to expand...
Respectfully, I disagree. The detective did not say there was no evidence LV was involved in killing her kids. He said there was no text saying that. If the only thing I looked at in that data was that AC showed up at her apartment in the wee hours of the morning to take JJ out of her bedroom to dispose of his body on CD’s property, it is more than enough to convince me that she was involved in the conspiracy, if not the actual murder itself but I’m hoping the cause of death might give more insight as to who actually took JJ’s life. I mean…he was in her bedroom…not elsewhere in the house that AC might have snuck in and stolen JJ away without LV knowing it - and she said the next morning that she had AC come and get JJ so we know it was not without her knowledge or permission.
 
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TheLoadedGoat said:
I'm wanting to know if Tylee, JJ, or Tammy had drugs in their systems.
Click to expand...
Sometimes it's hard to tell. To call on a trial running parallel to this one, I know they could only tell with Gannon because there was a bit of his liver left they could test. Tylee, JJ, and Tammy were deceased far longer than Gannon was. Tammy was probably embalmed. Tylee's body was profoundly damaged - I don't even know if they found any internal organs. It would probably heavily rely on what drug, and for how long they were given it (one big dose? slow poison?). I know a bunch of more 'traditional' poisons, the ones you see in Agatha Christie books, aren't easily destroyed. But there are plenty of drugs that don't last long in the system or are very difficult to find in remains that have been kept under the very best of circumstances.

I am not a doctor or a pathologist, I just read and watch a lot of true crime. I can recommend The Poisoner's Handbook by Deborah Blum and The Inheritor's Powder by Sandra Hempel for an indepth look at the development of the science around proving death by poison.

MOO
 
KonaHonu said:
My observation so far is that the prosecution is presenting a case against a conspiracy involving Chad, Alex, and Lori, But so far they have presented almost nothing to show Lori's involvement. Today we heard pretty damning testimony to the contrary from detective Stubbs:

Thomas has one more question: “Did you ever see anything from Lori saying, ‘I’m going to kill the kids?’ ‘Let’s kill the kids?’ ‘Kill the kids?'” Stubbs says, “No” to all the questions. Thomas: “Based on anything you’ve seen, is there anything in there where Lori had texted or emailed – any type of data that says anything about wanting to kill her children?” Stubbs says, “No.”

In summary, the police detective said there is NO evidence Lori was involved in killing her kids.

While I do think she was involved in a plan I think the evidence is extremely weak:

- Who cares if they were shopping for wedding rings? Chad convinced her he expected his wife to be dead of natural causes very soon. A girl can dream. And these two were so whacko that malachite could very well have had a spiritual meaning.
- They texted about the "plan." It was in the context of talking about Kauai so I would take that as the plan to go to Kauai.

As someone who wants to see her convicted I am extremely disappointed in the prosecution's case so far. I'm not saying they are not doing a good job. Just that they have almost no evidence against Lori. They are presenting a case against Chad and Alex and hoping they can get conspiracy in there somehow without any real evidence.

Please show me a lext where Lori says "they'll all be out of the way soon" or something to that effect. She is NOT too smart not to have sent something like that if there was a plan.

All I'm convinced of so far is that they hoped to get married if the cards played out. That might be a conspiracy but not a crime.
Click to expand...
Fortunately, texts are not the end-all-be-all of evidence. You do not need to verbally state your intention to kill someone in order to be a murderer.

And as @aafromaa stated, we have heaps of circumstantial evidence pointing to her involvement in the murders:

LVD showed through her words and actions that she knew her children were not with her. Multiple times, she lied and asked others to lie about their whereabouts. She knew that wherever they were they no longer needed their toys, their clothes, their medications, their service dog, their phones, their vehicle, their birth certificates, etc.

And yet she did not report them missing. She did not go looking for them. She did not try to contact them or provide them with financial support (in fact, she used their money herself!) This indicates that not only did she know they were not with her, but she knew that they no longer required her care.

And when they were found buried in her husband's yard, she did not show any sign of surprise or grief but continued to stand by her husband, telling Colby that everything was absolutely fine.
 
wnk said:
Fortunately, texts are not the end-all-be-all of evidence. You do not need to verbally state your intention to kill someone in order to be a murderer.

And as @aafromaa stated, we have heaps of circumstantial evidence pointing to her involvement in the murders:

LVD showed through her words and actions that she knew her children were not with her. Multiple times, she lied and asked others to lie about their whereabouts. She knew that wherever they were they no longer needed their toys, their clothes, their medications, their service dog, their phones, their vehicle, their birth certificates, etc.

And yet she did not report them missing. She did not go looking for them. She did not try to contact them or provide them with financial support (in fact, she used their money herself!) This indicates that not only did she know they were not with her, but she knew that they no longer required her care.

And when they were found buried in her husband's yard, she did not show any sign of surprise or grief but continued to stand by her husband, telling Colby that everything was absolutely fine.
Click to expand...
I think her taking control of Tylee's money the month before Tylee died is particularly damning. A girl in her late teens, supposedly going off to college, that's when you'd expect someone to get MORE control and autonomy over their individual finances, not less.

MOO
 
indicolite22 said:
Lori Vallow's uncle: All of us want to see justice | Banfield

not
Click to expand...
indicolite22 said:
Lori Vallow's uncle: All of us want to see justice | Banfield

Click to expand...
Obviously not extenuating circumstances by any means, but Lori's family are good looking people.. Decided to give them that much...Can see Alex in the uncle.
 
iamshadow21 said:
Sometimes it's hard to tell. To call on a trial running parallel to this one, I know they could only tell with Gannon because there was a bit of his liver left they could test. Tylee, JJ, and Tammy were deceased far longer than Gannon was. Tammy was probably embalmed. Tylee's body was profoundly damaged - I don't even know if they found any internal organs. It would probably heavily rely on what drug, and for how long they were given it (one big dose? slow poison?). I know a bunch of more 'traditional' poisons, the ones you see in Agatha Christie books, aren't easily destroyed. But there are plenty of drugs that don't last long in the system or are very difficult to find in remains that have been kept under the very best of circumstances.

I am not a doctor or a pathologist, I just read and watch a lot of true crime. I can recommend The Poisoner's Handbook by Deborah Blum and The Inheritor's Powder by Sandra Hempel for an indepth look at the development of the science around proving death by poison.

MOO
Click to expand...
Surely they will have done a hair test for JJ?
 
wnk said:
Fortunately, texts are not the end-all-be-all of evidence. You do not need to verbally state your intention to kill someone in order to be a murderer.

And as @aafromaa stated, we have heaps of circumstantial evidence pointing to her involvement in the murders:

LVD showed through her words and actions that she knew her children were not with her. Multiple times, she lied and asked others to lie about their whereabouts. She knew that wherever they were they no longer needed their toys, their clothes, their medications, their service dog, their phones, their vehicle, their birth certificates, etc.

And yet she did not report them missing. She did not go looking for them. She did not try to contact them or provide them with financial support (in fact, she used their money herself!) This indicates that not only did she know they were not with her, but she knew that they no longer required her care.

And when they were found buried in her husband's yard, she did not show any sign of surprise or grief but continued to stand by her husband, telling Colby that everything was absolutely fine.
Click to expand...
Don't forget her now extremely well publicized and recorded conversation with Chad lugubriously sighing, 'they're digging'... after which point, Lori doesn’t need anything explained to her, nope... just brightly and cheerfully asked him if he wants her to call him later... doesn’t need to have “they’re digging' explained to her or anything... just knows this means she needs to skedaddle off the phone… no 'digging for what?' 'Why does that matter'? 'Who is 'they', sweetie?'... without the presupposition that they know exactly what will be found by a dig in Chad's backyard, how does the defense (either of the defenses) plan on explaining that, I wonder??
 
cottonweaver said:
Surely they will have done a hair test for JJ?
Click to expand...
I would think so, but like I said, it depends on what drug, for how long, whether it would show up in his hair. If he was given one dose of something immediately before death, would it have time to be metabolised and traces of it laid down in his hair? I don't think so. I think hair and nails are better as indicators for a timeline for long term poisoning, or showing poisoning was done some time since the event. If he had, say, some of his liver left, like Gannon did, I think that would be what they'd go for. But I am not a pathologist, so I may be way off base.

MOO
 
KMouse said:
CV was a grifter and he was building his following with his grifter church. CV & LV were attracted to each other because they were self serving manipulative scammers who would do anything for themselves including murdering their loved ones.
Click to expand...
I'm sure you meant to say CD (Chad Daybell) was a grifter, and not CV (Charles Vallow). Charles was a great man who lived and worked honestly. Chad, on the other hand...
 
Shadowtrix said:
Ned Schneider was the name Lori used for the 'dark spirit' that 'possessed' Charles at one time. Why the obituary search, I'm not sure.
Click to expand...
I believe one if the women who testified, Z? said Lori told the casting group that Ned was following Charles around for a long time.

Chad likely picked a real name and made up some story about a gripe this evil spirit had with Charles way back in LA. He likely did not admit to this google search. He probably said he learned it all through his broken veil. He was hoping others googled it and said, OMG! Chad's the real thing! There really was a guy by that name that lived near Charles!

It's all part of the trickery of Chad.

MOO
 
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