ID - Doomsday Cult Victims - Joshua Vallow, Tylee Ryan, Tammy Daybell, Charles Vallow *Arrests* #72

[Gardenista]

 

[Gardenista]

Here's a screenshot of the case I was referring to, as well as ANOTHER case of a husband switching out the vitamins. The Ohio case is the one I had heard of.

I watched the Essa trial on CTV during Covid. Well worth watching

OH v. ESSA (2010)

Dr. Yazeed Essa is on trial for allegedly fatally poisoning his wife, Rosemarie Essa, with cyanide and fleeing the country.

www.courttv.com

 

[nodamselindistress]

I think the evidence is there, it is just circumstantial. Look at the list and whoever is dark gets labeled a zombie and ends up dead, starting with CV. LVD was definitely involved in that from the get-go. As for TR and JJ, you will never convince me that a mother would let her children "go away" with her brother or future husband to a safe place without her knowing where they were, so I cannot buy that hypothesis, to me it is not reasonable. The only thing that makes sense is they were identified as zombies and they died and she knew all about it.

I do wish and still have hope that there are some emails/texts out there we have yet to see that point more to her knowledge about this as it all happened, but I just do not see how she could NOT know. And IMHO there is no way AC is going to kill his niece and nephew on his own.

 

[cottonweaver]

Very enmeshed family/cult family.

I think it comes to Emma as easily as breathing to detect what Dad wants and needs and to supply it. Dad needs me to refuse an autopsy? On it! Dad wants me to isolate Mom? On it! Dad wants me to say she's been sick? On it!

MOO

this quote is interesting ( I haven't seen the full 48 hrs interview with them, couldn't find it)

'The Daybell children say when the coroner arrived that day, she told them it appeared their mother had died of natural causes. The children, who say their mother was in failing health, accepted that explanation. And they say it was they, not their father, who declined to have an autopsy performed.

"The narrative is that he was going, 'No, no, no autopsy.' But he was standing there — in complete shock, traumatized, letting us make the decision," says Chad Daybell's daughter, Emma Murray. "If he was trying to hide something, you — I wouldn't leave something like that up to my kids if I was trying to hide something."

Chad Daybell's children reveal authorities told them their mother was asphyxiated

Daybell is accused of murdering their mother, Tammy. A possible motive? To marry new wife Lori Vallow and collect insurance money. His children don't believe it.

www.cbsnews.com

also compare with what Brenda dye said today ' chad feeling it was not necessary..'

https://twitter.com/x/status/1652018337470369793

https://twitter.com/x/status/1652018507226443778

 

[Gut_feeling]

Regarding Chad possibly poisoning Tammy, I was thinking about how Zulema told LE that Alex had gone to Mexico for meds the day before his death, wondering if he had made a Mexico med trip prior to that to pick up what was needed to kill Tammy also. I searched if cyanide was available in Mexico, and something that came up was this article from 2008 about the ease of buying pentobarbital in Mexico from pet supply places.

Eta:
Jim Jones of Jonestown used pentobarbital and cyanide to murder his followers.

I'm still reading about the availability of cyanide in Mexico, apparently it is also marketed as a cancer drug. What I'm wondering is: in an autopsy/toxicology exam, would a medical examiner need to specifically look for cyanide and or pentobarbital in order to detect it?

Euthanasia tourists snap up pet shop drug in Mexico

 

[mickey2942]

this quote is interesting ( I haven't seen the full 48 hrs interview with them, couldn't find it)

'The Daybell children say when the coroner arrived that day, she told them it appeared their mother had died of natural causes. The children, who say their mother was in failing health, accepted that explanation. And they say it was they, not their father, who declined to have an autopsy performed.

"The narrative is that he was going, 'No, no, no autopsy.' But he was standing there — in complete shock, traumatized, letting us make the decision," says Chad Daybell's daughter, Emma Murray. "If he was trying to hide something, you — I wouldn't leave something like that up to my kids if I was trying to hide something."

Chad Daybell's children reveal authorities told them their mother was asphyxiated

Daybell is accused of murdering their mother, Tammy. A possible motive? To marry new wife Lori Vallow and collect insurance money. His children don't believe it.

www.cbsnews.com

This would be a coroner without a medical degree, who had not done a complete autopsy on Tammy Daybell. (Eye roll).

 

[cottonweaver]

Today's trial audio is out

The 911 - scroll to minus 26 ( need earphones or good speakers)

Let us know what you think about emotion ( Lauren Mathias had said today that she thought Chad sounded genuine in his tears)

Tammy shooting 911s are around minus 36

 

[KonaHonu]

this quote is interesting ( I haven't seen the full 48 hrs interview with them, couldn't find it)

'The Daybell children say when the coroner arrived that day, she told them it appeared their mother had died of natural causes. The children, who say their mother was in failing health, accepted that explanation. And they say it was they, not their father, who declined to have an autopsy performed.

"The narrative is that he was going, 'No, no, no autopsy.' But he was standing there — in complete shock, traumatized, letting us make the decision," says Chad Daybell's daughter, Emma Murray. "If he was trying to hide something, you — I wouldn't leave something like that up to my kids if I was trying to hide something."

Chad Daybell's children reveal authorities told them their mother was asphyxiated

Daybell is accused of murdering their mother, Tammy. A possible motive? To marry new wife Lori Vallow and collect insurance money. His children don't believe it.

www.cbsnews.com

also compare with what Brenda dye said today ' chad feeling it was not necessary..'

https://twitter.com/x/status/1652018337470369793

https://twitter.com/x/status/1652018507226443778

One of the reasons I really want to see solid evidence that Lori participated in a plan is because it appears to me that Chad is a master manipulator. I think it is very plausible that there was no plan at all and Chad orchestrated everything through manipulating Alex. He did not only manipulate Lori and Alex but also his kids, possibly Tammy, MG, JR and many others.

 

[Tortoise]

The "conspiracy" between AC, LVD and CD is certainly what lead to the murders. I doubt the deaths would have occurred (especially as readily as they did) if there was not a clear understanding between these three. I think the jurors have seen evidence of this understanding... even if it's not a signed document. Yes, circumstantial evidence is much more difficult to prove but, I think the prosecution has provided evidence of such an agreement. (Yes, the agreement is based on the wacko beliefs spouted by the members... but they clearly understood and believed). ETA: Alex would not have been the "hitman" if not prompted by these beliefs. In fact, none of them would have acted "individually" to achieve these deaths, but they obviously did it as an understood team.)

This is, of course, my (non-lawyer) opinion.

when Lori lost her cool and said 'idiot can't do anything right by himself' she showed she was more than a conspirator - Alex was given assignments by her, she was orchestrating the murders. It's illogical IMO to think she tasked him to kill Tammy but had no say in what he did to her children, who she had already said were zombies, showing no maternal instinct or love, and who she had already cut off from everyone and everything, in preparation for their deaths.

when Alex said 'can you believe they are being such jerks after how much I've helped them' and 'I think I'm gonna be their fall guy', he wasn't referring to Chad, he was referring to Chad and Lori, and he wouldn't have said those things if he knew Lori didn't want him to kill her children.

when Chad gave Alex a blessing and Lori was present, she condoned what he had done, and she continued to condone it when she didn't come out of hiding after his death and pin the children's deaths on him.

there is no reasonable doubt IMO that she orchestrated every single murder and Alex was a complete follower and believer in his sister.

 

[KonaHonu]

when Lori lost her cool and said 'idiot can't do anything right by himself' she showed she was more than a conspirator

I agree that is pretty damning evidence against Lori, except for the part about "by himself." Can you remind me who she said that to and when?

 

[KonaHonu]

I have a detailed timeline that I have put together for myself. It's in Excel and I can't really share it because it has information about several nonsleuthable people. But I'd like to flesh it out a little with some of the information from the trial and that others may have. Does anyone have the dates for the Knotts Berry Farm and beach trip. All I have heard is late November.

 

[pizzaman12]

I have a detailed timeline that I have put together for myself. It's in Excel and I can't really share it because it has information about several nonsleuthable people. But I'd like to flesh it out a little with some of the information from the trial and that others may have. Does anyone have the dates for the Knotts Berry Farm and beach trip. All I have heard is late November.

I believe you're able to create a private group to discuss. If you choose to do so, please let me know as I'd be interested in discussing

 

[Nikynoo]

Not transcripts but minutes. Not sure how useful they will be.https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR22211624/042723%20Court%20Minutes%20427.pdf

 

[KonaHonu]

I believe you're able to create a private group to discuss. If you choose to do so, please let me know as I'd be interested in discussing

Ok, once I flesh it out I think I can post it for everyone to see without violating the rules by hiding the columns for people like MG and MP, etc.

 

[Gut_feeling]

I have a detailed timeline that I have put together for myself. It's in Excel and I can't really share it because it has information about several nonsleuthable people. But I'd like to flesh it out a little with some of the information from the trial and that others may have. Does anyone have the dates for the Knotts Berry Farm and beach trip. All I have heard is late November.

The probable cause statement for Chad states that he and Lori flew from California to Hawaii on Dec 1, 2019, per American Airlines records. I remember hearing someone in court state that Chad and Lori went to Knotts Berry Farm in California with Chad's kids, and that his kids flew back to Idaho after the trip but Chad and Lori flew directly to Hawaii.

 

[Trebor5591]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1652020223548231680

https://twitter.com/x/status/1652020225213358080

https://twitter.com/x/status/1652020387428052992

Cook says Tammy was active with her email and knew computers well. Employees were expected to check their email accounts during summer months. In the archive system, Cook says one email was received from Charles Vallow that was in Tammy's deleted folder.

I wonder how Charles Vallow knew Tammy Daybell's work email address?

 

[Gardenista]

The probable cause statement for Chad states that he and Lori flew from California to Hawaii on Dec 1, 2019, per American Airlines records. I remember hearing someone in court state that Chad and Lori went to Knotts Berry Farm in California with Chad's kids, and that his kids flew back to Idaho after the trip but Chad and Lori flew directly to Hawaii.

For the life of me I can't remember where I heard this (and I just listened to whatever I heard in the past couple of days), but it was said they were there over Thanksgiving.

 

[fred&edna]

I agree that is pretty damning evidence against Lori, except for the part about "by himself." Can you remind me who she said that to and when?

This maybe:

East Idaho News reported that an unknown masked man also shot at Tammy Daybell several times with a paintball gun, and the gun may have been unloaded. The incident occurred 10 days before she was killed. According to the indictment, Cox went to a gun range in the months before the attempted shooting of Tammy Daybell, and Cox traveled from Sportsman’s Warehouse to “the vicinity” of Tammy Daybell’s home on Oct. 9, 2019. Pastenes said Vallow Daybell got a phone call the night they performed the casting on Tammy Daybell, and that she was “very, very angry” and was calling someone derogatory words like “idiot” and “moron.” Pastenes didn’t say who called her. “Idiot can’t do anything right by himself,” Vallow Daybell said after hanging up the phone.

Read more at: https://www.idahostatesman.com/news/local/crime/article274320280.html#storylink=cpy

 

[fred&edna]

For the life of me I can't remember where I heard this (and I just listened to whatever I heard in the past couple of days), but it was said they were there over Thanksgiving.

Rexburg PD believed LVD and CD left Rexburg Nov 26, 2019

(Thanksgiving Day was Nov 28, 2019)

CD & LVD flew from California to Hawaii on Dec 1, 2020

(Knott's sometime between 11/27/19 - 12/1/20)

** ETA: please double check my info at the link to verify

Probable Cause Aff:

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR33-20-0302/Affidavit%20of%20Probable%20Cause.pdf

 

[pizzaman12]

Cook says Tammy was active with her email and knew computers well. Employees were expected to check their email accounts during summer months. In the archive system, Cook says one email was received from Charles Vallow that was in Tammy's deleted folder.

I wonder how Charles Vallow knew Tammy Daybell's work email address?

Pretty much every school website lists the entire directory with names, numbers and emails of each employee/department