ID - Doomsday Cult Victims - Joshua Vallow, Tylee Ryan, Tammy Daybell, Charles Vallow *Arrests* #72

[Caylee Advocate]

How long after death does it take for rigor to set in?
I am gobsmacked that a person of Tammy's age could die suddenly at home, does not have any health issues and can go straight to cremation without an autopsy and then is determined to have died of natural causes? If you wanted to get away with murder that's the place to do it!

She wasn't cremated.

 

[aafromaa]

Idaho Code 18-204 (see pic below)

Does this mean that the state does not have to prove specifically who killed Tylee & JJ to convict LVD of murder? It is my opinion that it does and that the state has shown LVD to be not only a conspirator but also an accomplice before the fact. I do not think they have shown that she actually committed the murders - nor do I think we will ever know exactly what happened or who did what. But if this code means what I think it means then I do not think they have to show she actually committed either of the murders to convict her of the murders of Tylee & JJ. Your thoughts please….

 

[fred&edna]

Idaho Code 18-204 (see pic below)

Does this mean that the state does not have to prove specifically who killed Tylee & JJ to convict LVD of murder? It is my opinion that it does and that the state has shown LVD to be not only a conspirator but also an accomplice before the fact. I do not think they have shown that she actually committed the murders - nor do I think we will ever know exactly what happened or who did what. But if this code means what I think it means then I do not think they have to show she actually committed either of the murders to convict her of the murders of Tylee & JJ. Your thoughts please….

View attachment 417983

They are charged with "conspiracy"... so, specificity of the "murderer" is not required. The indictment uses the words... conspire, common scheme or plan, confederate and agree (and a few more). And, the indictments were read in front of the jury.

That's my understanding anyway.

And, I think there's been quite a bit of evidence shown of complicity... and all of the evidence as a whole appears overt. jmo

 

[Caylee Advocate]

!

https://twitter.com/x/status/1646590932014301184

Well that pretty much tells me that Chad wasn't sleeping in the same bed as Tammy. Surely his "portal" wasn't on the bed she slept in, WTH is a portal anyway? Serious question if anyone knows.

 

[Caylee Advocate]

They state foam was not in picture taken at morgue, was it a morgue or mortuary? I cannot believe the family said no to autopsy so they went straight to funeral home? it all has me confused.

Her body was most likely taken to the county morgue and held until the funeral home in Utah came and took possession of her body. So sad!!!



How to determine time of death

Rigor mortis appears approximately 2 hours after death in the muscles of the face, progresses to the limbs over the next few hours, completing between 6 to 8 hours after death. Rigor mortis then stays for another 12 hours (till 24 hours after death) and then disappears.

 

[k-mac]

And Tammy wasn’t cremated.

Think you tagged wrong post.

Yes Tammy was exhumed she wasn't cremated.

 

[pizzaman12]

Well, Lori going to LE would have likely started the process of halting SS funds for the children... which kinda/sorta figures in with that whole grand theft charge, right?? Where's the evidence that bad CD manipulated her into that?

My concern isn't whether the prosecution can get a conviction on grand theft charges. Murder and conspiracy are what I'm concerned about.

 

[k-mac]

My concern isn't whether the prosecution can get a conviction on grand theft charges. Murder and conspiracy are what I'm concerned about.

Lori was attached at the hip to both these men.

She is the link in the chain.

The meat in the chad and alex sandwich.

An over cooked sandwich too



People shouldn't get off on technicalities. Casey Anthony is whats wrong with juries.
And usually its just one........always someone who wants impossible proof. When reasonable proof and common sense is enough.

 

[Kemug]

When it became clear they'd have to bury her quickly, they threw burning parts (sorry!) into the green bucket intending to transport them to the grave, but buried the bucket when it caught fire or melted beyond usefulness.

MOO

RSBM
Just a small point re the bucket - it was a green bucket, right? And there was a green bucket in the shed, right? It's just that in our household if we ever need a new bucket we get 2 of them, because the 2 we already had wore out at the same time. So to me that burnt and buried green bucket came from Chad's shed.

 

[LinasK]

The murders happened 2 or more weeks apart. It is almost impossible to believe that Lori was not participating ahead of JJ's murder, since she was already lying about Tylee's.

(Which, for the record. I believe she also participated in ahead of the murder, such as by taking control of her money. But let's assume we agree there is no conspiracy in advance for Tylee as an exercise....)

If by this exercise we are assuming Lori was lying about Tylee's whereabouts only after the murder occurred, how does she explain saying she had Alex pick up JJ? And pulling him out of school? Then changing the story to home school when records were offered? Why did she site behaviors that others thought were normal in JJ - or that nobody witnessed or believed- as "proof" he was a zombie ahead of his murder?

These things are not "yada-yada"s.

It appears Lori was well aware and furious that Alex didn't shoot Tammy.

And, of course, Lori was goddess in charge of of spreading the justification gospel. All of this was well in advance.

If she had taken that route, I think she could have (truthfully) brought up mitigation. She was abused her whole life. She was criminally responsible IMO and aware she was breaking the law, but I believe she was delusional and thought she was righteous, and everyone else didn't understand. She did use Chad's teachings. But she still did the crimes. So mitigating factors would only have taken her so far.

I don't get how anyone can deny fore-planning.

MOO

Don't forget her actions of selling JJ's therapy dog, putting their bikes/toys in storage, and taking JJ off his meds, Why do any of these actions if you aren't preparing to kill the kids?

 

[k-mac]

Don't forget her actions of selling JJ's therapy dog, putting their bikes/toys in storage, and taking JJ off his meds, Why do any of these actions if you aren't preparing to kill the kids?

Exactly it totally shows intent.

The welfare of her son no longer relevant, the lack of compassion for him very transparent....
inhuman....
guess what...his murder....inhuman...common denominator...his carer...inhuman


what would be the chances of this declining care factor from his sole carer and his death independant of that....and also independant of his only carer marrying the man who's property he was discarded like trash to.

Lori's proven actions show more premeditation than chad or alex.

goose is cooked!

 

[Kemug]

Chad is such a brilliant writer and actor - what a loss to the world when he is no longer around.

 

[Caylee Advocate]

I think the evidence is there, it is just circumstantial. Look at the list and whoever is dark gets labeled a zombie and ends up dead, starting with CV. LVD was definitely involved in that from the get-go. As for TR and JJ, you will never convince me that a mother would let her children "go away" with her brother or future husband to a safe place without her knowing where they were, so I cannot buy that hypothesis, to me it is not reasonable. The only thing that makes sense is they were identified as zombies and they died and she knew all about it.

I do wish and still have hope that there are some emails/texts out there we have yet to see that point more to her knowledge about this as it all happened, but I just do not see how she could NOT know. And IMHO there is no way AC is going to kill his niece and nephew on his own.

I wonder why none of Chad's family (except Tammy) was considered to be a dark rated "Zombie"? In all of this BS it seems that Zombie's only came into play if it was ANYONE who stood in their way. Frigging disgusting! Some people just need to wake up and see things for how they really are... not for how they hope they are. What mother doesn't cry and do a complete breakdown when photos of her kids are shown in pieces and burnt to hell, or little JJ in his red jammies taped up like a mummy.

It's a shame that the "mother" (NOT) who put these kids in this predicament to be killed and slaughtered doesn't have the same death waiting for her. I hope the fire in hell burns hotter for all three of these monsters.

 

[Kemug]

Bailiff is reviewing courtroom conduct rules with the audience. Lori Vallow Daybell is dressed in black today. Prosecutors and defense attorneys are in the courtroom ready to go.

RSBM
Dressed in black? Finally Lori is mourning!

 

[Kemug]

She screamed for Chad and the man took off. Tammy thought it might be her son because they had the same build. Cannon says Chad and Garth did not seem upset and were calm.

Cannon spoke with Joseph Murray who was kitty-corner from the home cutting wood. He said he heard Tammy scream and then called 911. This happened a little before 9 p.m. Cannon says it wasn't super dark - it was dusk.

Sounds like the son-in-law was more concerned than Chad and Garth.

 

[k-mac]

RSBM
Dressed in black? Finally Lori is mourning!

I put money on black is sexy and black is slimming.
Far more important elements for a goddess.

Mourning would show regret....sadness....GUILT.

She won't cave now. IMO.

 

[887sMtreme]

SBM

We're hearing a lot of info. But no one is making any effort to tie it to Lori being involved, when it comes to the kids and Tammy. (And what happened to CV is not this case.)

You have articulated my take on the trial to date. But we’re not done yet. Typically, prosecutors end their arguments with a bang, not a whimper (apologies to T. S. Eliot), so there may be something damning coming up. I certainly hope so.

 

[887sMtreme]

Fake 911 calls. The Behavior Panel (an authorized source) discusses it regularly. IIRC one of the panelists trains LE on how to identify fake 911 calls. Patsy Ramsey is one of the examples they use. Guys who kill their wives seem especially prone to fake 911 calls....

It seems a subtle form of distancing. Is that what the panel say?

 

[indicolite22]

Exactly. Lori called him her protector to LE in Rexburg. She knew she could manipulate Alex. Alex's loyalty was to Lori. He wouldn't agree to be a "warrior" for some random dude named Chad. Chad and Lori gave the orders together, and Alex did what he was told.

Alex himself indicated that he was directed by Chad and Lori when he said that he was THEIR fall guy just before he died.

 

[KonaHonu]

Lori was attached at the hip to both these men.

People shouldn't get off on technicalities. Casey Anthony is whats wrong with juries.
And usually its just one........always someone who wants impossible proof. When reasonable proof and common sense is enough.

Your first statement is unsettling, but might be accurate based on what we have heard.

"Reasonable proof and common sense"

I was once on a jury for felony DUI. The guy ran into the back of a fire engine that was protecting an accident at 2:00 in the morning. He was pretty badly injured. There were also several police cars and ambulances around rendering aid for the first accident. That is, lots of flashing lights. This was in Arizona, no issues like fog or anything. Fortunately no one else was hurt but he basically totaled a city fire engine.

It was pretty clear that he was guilty and there was no doubt it was him that hit the fire engine. But we had to find him not guilty. Why? Because they had done multiple blood draws as part of his treatment and all came back under the legal limit at the time (this was a while ago so I think the limit was 0.1%). Anyway, he was given lots of transfusion blood to treat his injuries so probably what happened was he was drunk but by the time they extracted him and transported, he started to sober up and the transfusions only further diluted. Ultimately the prosecution presented 3 blood tests, one from about 5 AM (2 hours after the accident) that showed 0% alcohol, one from about 7 AM that showed just under the legal limit, and another from later that day that showed a very low level.

We all on the jury suspected the first test was just wrong or mixed up because how could his alcohol level go up while he is in the hospital getting transfused? The prosecutor argued we should ignore the first test and kept saying "absence of evidence is not evidence of absence." The problem with that argument, which I understand is taught to lawyers is that is is just plain wrong. When you develop a test for something, a negative test is evidence of the absence of whatever you are testing for, part of the test development is ensuring it detects the substance if it is there!

We found him not guilty because there was no evidence of intoxication. He was not charged with anything but a traffic violation for the accident itself. The prosecutor was pissed at us and practically yelled at us afterwards during an off-the-record debriefing that the court allowed! The judge had to shut her down.

I found out later in the newspapers that he and the city were suing each other, him for a couple of million dollars for not setting up the accident response properly and the city for damage to the firetruck. He won partly because of the criminal acquittal. "Won" is probably incorrect. I think the city had to settle. The prosecution was almost 3 years after the accident so it was very suspect from the start. But in the end it was clear it was part of their strategy for the civil suit.