ID - Doomsday Cult Victims - Joshua Vallow, Tylee Ryan, Tammy Daybell, Charles Vallow *Arrests* #73

[Kemug]

He has got his lovers 2 kids buried right there (murdered) in his yard and they attempt to murder Tammy in that yard....can you imagine the cops swarming the place had it of worked???

Very short sighted man or brazen as hell?

I believe the word you are searching for begins with "st" and ends with "upid".

 

[Kemug]

@SteveS - I rather like your alternative script for this melodrama. However, I still have a niggling doubt about the failed shooting of TD - I can't help feeling that the shooter just could have been Chad himself.

 

[iamshadow21]

I believe the word you are searching for begins with "st" and ends with "upid".

But it's fine, because anyone who can fold Satan into a taco and mail him to Antarctica is going to have no trouble handling a few LE! They're never going to jail! Oh, wait...

MOO

 

[k-mac]

EAST IDAHO NEWS is ok to post here I think.

If anyone has not seen Nate Eaton suck it to Chad and Lori in HAWAII you are in for a treat watch the above link.

It is pure gold.

 

[Nikynoo]

I listened to the testimony of AB again today and caught something I hadn’t heard the other day. AB said that near the end of her friendship with LV that LV told AB that MB/MP was dark and I think she said 1 or 2 of her children. AB had also said that LV was very snippy with MB at times in Hawaii. I don’t know whether LV told AB that MB was dark in Hawaii or in Idaho but pretty sure it had to be one or the other and during those few days. It raises a couple of questions for me.

1) It sounds like MB & LV had a falling out of some type either shortly before going to Hawaii or while in Hawaii. MB was with LV when they went to MO when TD was shot at and 10 days later was in Hawaii with her and returned to LV‘s apartment when she got back to ID and in early media interviews she seemed to be defending LV. So what happened in or before Hawaii that had LV agitated and caused her to tell AB that MB was dark?

2) And did MB/MP know that LV said she was dark? AB & MB were together without LV for a few days in Hawaii. AB was already creeped out by LV - suspicions about CV death and now TD. Did MB know LV said she’d gone dark? Did AB tell MB about what LV had told her about MB - either in Hawaii or after returning to Rexburg? Surely MB would have known she was in danger if she’d gone dark. Is that why she blurted things out about LV & CD to IP the day after they were married? (Which was just over a month after she got back from Hawaii.)

3) Would MB have been next because she knew too much?

I think LV was snippy with MP because MP was so focussed on getting her children back. iIRC, LV and CD advised MO not to fight for the children. IMO, they didn’t want any children around. Same goes for the children of AR, she was told to leave them with their father.

 

[indicolite22]

I agree! But I think if you read second comforter and similar books- you will find that they claim they are supported in apostasy by the scriptures still considered true by the church. And people I trust, like John D of Mormon stories, back that up.

The church doesn't support this Chad an similar offshoot stuff. But it hasn't renounced or changed scripture that supports it either.

So the ordinary believer is told, this is not LDS. By the LDS church verbally.

Meanwhile, in writing. The LDS church hasn't renounced things like the second anointing. Individuals becoming prophets. IOW, the theology that makes being a leader of an off shoot and thinking there is no need to ever repent possible.

Ordinary church goers don't believe this stuff. But cult leaders can back it up with LDS literature.

And the leadership of LDS continues to say one thing verbally, and another with scripture.

Ordinary church goers are completely innocent- just trying to serve the community by practicing what the church tells them to practice.

MOO

Where is the zombie doctrine (the need to kill the body of a possessed individual in order for the spirit to progress to the next life) mentioned in the LDS literature? Evil possession as such can be found in other religions, as well as exorcism.

 

[Tortoise]

@SteveS - I rather like your alternative script for this melodrama. However, I still have a niggling doubt about the failed shooting of TD - I can't help feeling that the shooter just could have been Chad himself.

No it couldn't have been Chad because Tammy ran inside the house and Chad and her son were inside, not wearing masks or holding guns. She saw the gunman run away.

 

[k-mac]

The main thing in this I see as a hitch is that Chad had been telling people all around him for ages that Tammy was going to die before she was fifty. Time was ticking down on that. Why tell anyone it at all, if you didn't know it was going to happen and make it look like you had special insight? The moment Tammy blows out the candles on her 50th, you have to tell everyone something good about why that didn't happen pretty fast, or they're not going to believe the next 'vision'.

I think Chad always planned to kill Tammy, since he started seeding it into people's minds that it was foreordained. Because if a healthy, happy, active woman under fifty dies suddenly and the guy she was married to for decades buries her in a couple of days, is demanding her life insurance immediately and has a new girlfriend just as fast, even in an LDS community, folks are going to be raising eyebrows and asking questions. But if you've been salting in the idea for some time that Tammy is doomed to die and you're sad about it but you've accepted it as inevitable... people just accept it. They shouldn't, because it's hinky as all get out, but this is a religion that places a LOT of weight on personal revelation. Chad would be seen as deeply spiritual and connected to God for having that kind of revelation and that it actually happened like he said it would, rather than the murderous, adulterous creep that he is.

MOO

yes I think Chad always had the desire to stray and move on from Tammy.
He was grooming Julie Rowe (according to her) when Lori threw herself in his lap.

 

[Ruminations]

RSBM

Because someone who he thought had a hotline to God told him the world was about to end?

I was raised mainstream LDS, and you can bet if the First Presidency announced today the world was going to end this year, that's what a huge amount of mainstream LDS would do. Not the ones who are already preppers and fringe believers, the mainstream ones.

But they never will do that, because, as my mum (active and lifelong LDS) likes to quote, no man, and not even the angels in heaven knows the hour of the Second Coming. It's in the New Testament. So any man who says he knows in advance is lying. (Just my Mum's opinion for you folks today.)

MOO

Sounds like a wise quote to keep in mind for cult-proofing oneself.

But.... is your Mum sure that even Julie R's angels don't know? (just kidding!)

The few LDS and exmo people I've met (as acquaintances, TBF) and the LDS people and exmo I've "met" on the internet all have the same kinds of beliefs about how to treat people and live a life ethically as people from other religions- or have quit other religions.

IMO

 

[Nikynoo]

EAST IDAHO NEWS is ok to post here I think.

If anyone has not seen Nate Eaton suck it to Chad and Lori in HAWAII you are in for a treat watch the above link.

It is pure gold.

Nate is sure PO!! Just shows how solid Lori and Chad were even then.

 

[indicolite22]

Been thinking about Chad's mental health mixed with idiotic fantasies.

Had Alex been successful and shot Tammy dead that day...
how would he justify such a radical extreme violent episode in little Salem?
Tammy was basically a sweet non assuming librarian...didn't have an enemy in the world,
Chad the deeply religious god fearing author family man.

Why would this happen to them??
The rational simply wasn't there. LE would have been all over Chads backside from the get go.
IMO they would have went down sooner had Alex been successful in killing her that night.

A masked gunman is a totally targeted event.
Chad forgot to set up previous issues for a fall guy. (but did he forget???)
or was he 'clever' enough in his own mind that Alex did it. Alex will go down for it not me.

He has got his lovers 2 kids buried right there (murdered) in his yard and they attempt to murder Tammy in that yard....can you imagine the cops swarming the place had it of worked???

Very short sighted man or brazen as hell?

They thought they were safe by using burner phones (IIRC, Chad used 9 phones in total). Alex left his main phone at home for the attempted shooting at Tammy. He bought a burner phone only a day earlier.

 

[Ruminations]

No it couldn't have been Chad because Tammy ran inside the house and Chad and her son were inside, not wearing masks or holding guns. She saw the gunman run away.

This disturbs me: Tammy seemed to assume it was a "prank" played on her by her own family at first.

That's not a prank. If she thought Chad and a male son of hers would would do that...it's another piece of data that shows what an abusive home she endured.

I don't take Chad's reports of Tammy being I'll or short of breath as at all credible. Even Emma didn't exactly say that- she said she was going to bed early. Probably because she was tired of hanging around the kind of people who she assumed would point a gun at her as a prank.

Heather Daybell reported Tammy was detached and had her head down at church and looked deeply depressed. She is credible. She only saw Tammy occasionally when she was with Chad.

Everyone else, even the relief society president, said she was healthy and vibrant. Her school friends snd co-workers said she was healthy and vibrant. She went to intense workout classes 2x per week where she had no trouble keeping up. And she was healthy and vibrant. She completed a 5k in August.

So. It appears Tammy was depressed and nearly silent when around Chad. And that was the way he liked it.

MOO

 

[Tortoise]

This disturbs me: Tammy seemed to assume it was a "prank" played on her by her own family at first.

That's not a prank. If she thought Chad and a male son of hers would would do that...it's another piece of data that shows what an abusive home she endured.

I don't take Chad's reports of Tammy being I'll or short of breath as at all credible. Even Emma didn't exactly say that- she said she was going to bed early. Probably because she was tired of hanging around the kind of people who she assumed would point a gun at her as a prank.

Heather Daybell reported Tammy was detached and had her head down at church and looked deeply depressed. She is credible. She only saw Tammy occasionally when she was with Chad.

Everyone else, even the relief society president, said she was healthy and vibrant. Her school friends snd co-workers said she was healthy and vibrant. She went to intense workout classes 2x per week where she had no trouble keeping up. And she was healthy and vibrant. She completed a 5k in August.

So. It appears Tammy was depressed and nearly silent when around Chad. And that was the way he liked it.

MOO

Did she say she thought it was Chad or one of her sons?

I seem to remember something about a dispute over a dog in the neighborhood and thinking it might be a local teenager with mental health problems.

 

[indicolite22]

I don't think Tammy getting suspicious/depressed in the weeks before her death was connected to Charles' letter in June. Once Lori moved to Idaho, Chad was probably making a lot more excuses at home to spend time with her at every opportunity. It's also possible that Chad and Lori were seen together by someone who then told Tammy.

 

[indicolite22]

In her latest yt live Lori Hellis mentioned a failed attempt at a deal before the trial started. A source told LH that it was because the defense asked that Lori serve her sentence in a mental institution, which wasn't acceptable for the prosecution. Of course we don't know the reliability of this info.

 

[Ruminations]

Where is the zombie doctrine (the need to kill the body of a possessed individual in order for the spirit to progress to the next life) mentioned in the LDS literature? Evil possession as such can be found in other religions, as well as exorcism.

Yes- possession is a Christian thing.

Angels predate Christians.

There are groups that abuse religions.

Like the fundie baptists of Duggar infamy.

Like people who convince the vulnerable that allah wants them to crash planes.

I do wish, however, that the LDS church didn't ignore this crime. I feel the impact of it and I live in the north east of USA. The crime hurts. As you get closer and closer to this crime in real life, the scars are deep. The victims who lost their lives were LDS. The children that were missing were LDS. The neighbors where the children were buried were virtually all LDS. If I feel this crime, I can't imagine the wounds in Rexburg.

The LDS church, because of some of its teachings, gets its community through disasters well. Tammy was literally working with the relief society, to help when things go wrong with families. Why couldn't healing through this trauma- especially in Rexburg area, not be a calling? Why couldn't the church rent up a couple of homes where out of town victims could stay and express their condolences? And the relief society could bring them a meal? There is much that could have been done. And I believe that the LDS members in town would have gladly participated in helping each other. The church coujd have ameliorated some of the fracturing in town by saying this is not about who believes Chad. This is about the children - the LDS children- who are lost. The could work with the grief and not get into the whodunnit.

I have no reason to believe that any LDS person was anything but horrified when those bodies were found- the only possible exception being the accused. The price's let their fence become a memorial. Maybe the church could have done something like that at least.

MOO

 

[Ruminations]

Did she say she thought it was Chad or one of her sons?

I seem to remember something about a dispute over a dog in the neighborhood and thinking it might be a local teenager with mental health problems.

Yes, to the police. And they even said the build of the suspect didn't match.

Apparently she emailed Mark the other stories which I guess were the chatter in town. I get the impression it was a neighborhood topic of small talk by then. Tammy didn't embrace those theories in the email. But she shared them- I think just to include him in the small talk, too.

MOO

 

[Gardenista]

This is an old video from HTC that I'd never listed to. It is the reading of a LE report on an interview they did with Zulema on 10/2/2020. It is very interesting, and much more enlightening to me than the video'd interview of her in April 2021 and way more enlightening than her testimony.

 

[303gmf]

Interestingly, the host of Mormon stories, a fantastic you tube channel, says he was approached by Prior to be an expert on the LDS church.

He has deeply covered how going "deep" into the theology does logically lead to off shoots like Chad's. Even though "headquarters" does not teach it to the general churchgoer. Off shoots think the church has liberalized to apostasy. The church when pushed says the cults are apostasy. And leaders might get excommunicated for claiming to be s prophet.

When push comes to shove, reading deep and studying what does not get taught in the church, LDS literature supports the off shoots, even if "headquarters" does not.

That's why there are conflicting emotional responses to cases like this. "That's not real LDS," competes with "The LDS church is a cult itself and caused it."

What I have learned is, they are both right! I get the impression most Mormons never learn know or care about the "extreme" teaches embedded in scripture, but not encourage by the church.

It's not a matter of interpretation, either. Like"Spate the rod and spoil the child," which justifies or forbids beating children, depending on how you read it.

Books like "The second Comforter," a cult favorite, spend a lot of ink saying, "they didn't tell you this, but...."

BTW, a lot of this stuff also is ancient. Such as possession. Jesus apparently did castings. But personally being a prophet gives the church pain, but their own scriptures back it up.

So things could get interesting if Chad's defense is, this is no cult, this is mainstream!

MOO

Have been impressed with Dr. Dehlin for years, his guests have done heroic work exposing the sexual abuse, control of the flock and what happens when exposure is threatened and how some are treated after leaving the cult, mainstream or not, his knowledge worth a listen or three

 

[indicolite22]

An interesting tidbit from Lori's cousin's interview on the Mormon Stories podcast: In 2019, the cousin's oldest daughter was living in Rexburg with her husband. After Lori and Alex moved there and before the children were reported missing, Adam's wife called the cousin and asked her to tell her daughter to stay away from Lori and Alex. Adam's family suspected they murdered Charles and were dangerous. The cousin was afraid that Lori would reach out to her daughter.