Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 16, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *Arrests* #47

[tripleC]

When the world ends for us mere mortals on July 22 , I will take comfort in knowing LV and CD spent their last days apart, in jail and not in Hawaii.

 

[Michael0808]

ITA with the confusion. I kinda got the feeling that "professionals" is supposed to establish bona fides; we actually don't know who they are AFAIK.
And we also don't seem to have incontrovertible verification of the documents in the sense usually required on WS, as far as I can tell, e.g. by clearly-indicated verified source in a contributor's bi-line or MSM.
Plus, I take issue the "cloak and dagger" personal privacy concerns of the disseminators when childrens' lives have been laid bare. That, to me, comes across as entitlement. IMO.
Would I be okay with a bunch of people out there, whom I don't know, who aren't in the business of helping me, broadcasting my private life for everyone to see? As a child, no less? In my most powerless moments? Of course not. Humiliation would be piled on top of pain.
If the documents become part of the court case, I'd be prepared to look at them. But if I did so now, I'd feel like hypocrite and I'd be one.

And a final point of confusion: I thought we weren't supposed to be digging around in the history of minors and victims per TOS. Is THIS somehow not THAT? Yep, very confused.

Just saw this. You expressed very eloquently what I was thinking. Jmo

 

[Secretly a Secretary]

MooMooMooooo
I keep going back to the “7” number that has been thrown out. Not that I do not think IP is part of this quackery, I really don’t believe he was part of the core group. Too many inconsistencies in his role. He may have been in protective mode in joint interviews this spring, but his actions in early December do not point to him being one of the originals. Texts to his ex wife, wearing a wire, etc... I believe he was manipulated later.
If that is true who are the 7, if that is an accurate number? CD, LV, MP, MG, AC, ZP, and who? Curious if a another victim is also being considered. I do not say this as any disrespect to any of the victims. I also don’t know what clearly separates a core member of the group. A fan vs a participant. I have followed closely from the beginning but there are continuous twists that I didn’t come seeing either.

 

[155etta]

I hope the Vallow-Daybell cohort gets new catastrophic (from their point of view) charges on the 22nd. Flat-out end-of-days (aka lifer) charges. Boom! Their world blows up.
An ancient Lydian king (Croesus) asked the oracle in Delphi if he would be victorious if he marched on Persia. The oracle's response? "You will destroy a great army." Yeppers, the army he destroyed was his own. Totaled.
May the Vallow-Daybell duo's fantasy-driven doomsday boomerang neatly back to the source.

I actually think the Rexburg PD might do this. Drop the charges on the 22nd.

 

[Michael0808]

Michael , it was my opinion only, sorry if I have offended you.

I found it surprising (thus, wow) because CW has previously defended CV and said he was not violent, so to see that she and he had previously had an altercation did not fit in my mind. That was my reason behind the new light reference.

Charles Vallow's ex-wife had concerns about Lori Daybell over 10 years ago and thinks his shooting death was '100% planned' | East Idaho News

I certainly understand that CV was murdered in cold blood, your righteous indigation is shared by me in that respect.

THIS IS ALL JUST MY OPINION.

I apologize for my indignation. I hear what you’re saying. Honestly I’d had a long day of papers and a sick dog and logging in seeing all the new information being posted hit a sore spot. I totally hear you and perhaps posted in response to thoughts I was having about other info.
Thank you for your reply! This is a challenging case.

 

[Michael0808]

Late to the party, but I sure hope Chori/Load have that date wrong, I'm judging county fair entries on the 22nd and am really looking forward to cake, coffee cake, layer cake, snack cake, pound cake, bread, quick bread, whole grain bread, lots of rolls, a bunch of categories of cookies, you name it.

No pie, there's a whole separate pie contest.

I suppose if the world ends, my weight or pant size won't matter much, right?

JMHO YMMV LRR See y'all on the other side!

Thanks... now I want cake. And my quarantine waist does not need cake.

 

[Michael0808]

And don't forget, "we don't like camping, Melanie."

Haha! This made me spit out my water. For real.
These people are insane. MOO

ETA not in the legal sense! Just in the these people are crazy sense lol

 

[Michael0808]

Perhaps I am misunderstanding what's happening here, but I believe there are 2 cases:

CR33-20-0302 | State of Idaho Plaintiff, vs. Lori Norene Vallow Defendant.

• (formerly) 2 counts of desertion, (currently) 1 count each of resisting or obstructing officers, criminal solicitation to commit a crime, and contempt of court
• Judge: Michele Radford Mallard
• bail of $1M

CR22-20-0838 | State of Idaho Plaintiff, vs. Lori Norene Vallow Defendant.

• 2 counts of felony destruction, alteration or concealment of evidence
• Judge: Faren Z. Eddins
• bail of $1M

Both cases have the same prosecutor (because Fremont County named Madison County Prosecuting Attorney Rob H. Wood as their special prosecutor for the second case ending in 0838).

Both cases have the same defense attorney (Mark L. Means)

I don't know the procedural magic, but I think the motion for bond reduction only applies to the first case, not the second. So best case, she's still looking at $1M for CR22-20-0838, plus whatever reduced amount the court may decide in CR33-20-0302.

Do I have this wrong? If not, then I don't see this forcing the prosecutor's hand in any way. It just looks like an attempt to get her bail back down closer to $1M overall.

Makes total sense to me. But I’m still left with a question. I would think she’s asking for a reduction because she thinks she can meet it. Who in the heck is waiting in the wings to pay it?

 

[BeckyF]

I tend to agree. I respect @kshultz06082 opinion but I just don't see it as easily. I see what I imagine was an above-averagely dysfunctional family (LVD's fam of origin) with a lot of insecurity on display. But I don't have a clear sight-line from there to murder. Based on my own experiences and as a student of the human condition, I think most humans (as children) are generally very psychologically resilient. I've known people from the most horrible childhoods you could imagine who have done some of the most remarkably positive things in their lives and for other people. And I've seen people who come from the most unremarkably normal childhoods go on to commit unspeakable atrocities.
I don't think having an f-ed up family explains mental illness or personality disorders, unless there is a hereditary genetic condition in play, which I don't think any of us can say.

BBM I strongly disagree. Most definitely there is not a clear site line from there to murder. I am not in the slightest excusing what CD or LVD did. But growing up in a dysfunctional home or by parents who treat their children with emotional or physical cruelty absolutely does cause personality disorders and mental illness. There are multiple studies on this subject and if you are truly a student of the human condition you would know that. I know from personal experience. By your statement you are giving all emotionally or physically abusive parents or caregivers a pass. IMO

From Abused Child to Serial Killer: Investigating Nature vs Nurture in Methods of Murder - Psychiatry Advisor

 

[BeckyF]

Ugh!

Just checked. Hawaii has an insanity defense.

The Insanity Defense Among the States - FindLaw

Doesn't matter. It won't work. IMO

 

[BeckyF]

I was just thinking it's been awhile since a bond reduction hearing. Glad to see they've kept us on pace

Oh my. This totally cracked me up.

 

[BeckyF]

How does "professionals" with a Youtube channel make them not Youtubers?

Great observation!

 

[Michael0808]

BBM I strongly disagree. Most definitely there is not a clear site line from there to murder. I am not in the slightest excusing what CD or LVD did. But growing up in a dysfunctional home or by parents who treat their children with emotional or physical cruelty absolutely does cause personality disorders and mental illness. There are multiple studies on this subject and if you are truly a student of the human condition you would know that. I know from personal experience. By your statement you are giving all emotionally or physically abusive parents or caregivers a pass. IMO

From Abused Child to Serial Killer: Investigating Nature vs Nurture in Methods of Murder - Psychiatry Advisor

BBM
I hear you, and I am sorry for the personal experiences you have had.
This article is 3 years old, and cites some studies. Much progress has been made.
The article posted seems to be supporting a clear line to murder based on child abuse which it looks like you are arguing against.
I don’t see anyone getting a pass here.
But IMO, bad parenting does not lead to declaring your children zombies, burning and burying them.
Dysfunctional families are not the cause of serial murderers or people like CD and LVD. Otherwise we may expect that their children would become them, only worse.
Doesn’t seem like JJ and Tylee, rest their souls, were on that path despite the horrific parenting they had to live with.
Sometimes evil just exists in humans. There is often a genetic predisposition of mental illness in the family line.
I personally do not think mental illness, nature or nurture plays a role in the case. I think it’s evil, greed, and self absorption. Plain and simple. Sometimes it’s just that.
Jmo

 

[ReadyorNot]

BBM
I hear you, and I am sorry for the personal experiences you have had.
This article is 3 years old, and cites some studies. Much progress has been made.
The article posted seems to be supporting a clear line to murder based on child abuse which it looks like you are arguing against.
I don’t see anyone getting a pass here.
But IMO, bad parenting does not lead to declaring your children zombies, burning and burying them.
Dysfunctional families are not the cause of serial murderers or people like CD and LVD. Otherwise we may expect that their children would become them, only worse.
Doesn’t seem like JJ and Tylee, rest their souls, were on that path despite the horrific parenting they had to live with.
Sometimes evil just exists in humans. There is often a genetic predisposition of mental illness in the family line.
I personally do not think mental illness, nature or nurture plays a role in the case. I think it’s evil, greed, and self absorption. Plain and simple. Sometimes it’s just that.
Jmo

BBM: I wouldn't rule out a mix of all of the above.

 

[gumchew]

BBM I strongly disagree. Most definitely there is not a clear site line from there to murder. I am not in the slightest excusing what CD or LVD did. But growing up in a dysfunctional home or by parents who treat their children with emotional or physical cruelty absolutely does cause personality disorders and mental illness. There are multiple studies on this subject and if you are truly a student of the human condition you would know that. I know from personal experience. By your statement you are giving all emotionally or physically abusive parents or caregivers a pass. IMO

From Abused Child to Serial Killer: Investigating Nature vs Nurture in Methods of Murder - Psychiatry Advisor

I don’t think that is what I was expressing but I’m sorry that I offended you. I may indeed be a very poor student of humanity, as you have suggested here. If so, sure hope I’m being graded on a curve and there is make-up work!

One thing I do know, however, is that correlation is not causation. The fact that 32% of serial killers have endured abuse as children is not the same as saying that 32% of abused children become serial killers. Gob help us all if that were to be the case! And that was the essence of my point, which the article you linked does not contradict.

The second thing I know is that we don’t know any facts about LVD’s childhood that would prove abuse or mental illness in the family. Not saying there aren’t any. Just saying that having an opinion about her family based on observing from afar (and the fact that they rub us the wrong way) does not give any of us magical diagnostic powers.

If you have better facts than these, this student humbly sits at your feet awaiting enlightenment. Better facts and better data make for better ideas and outcomes IMO.

 

[BeckyF]

BBM
I hear you, and I am sorry for the personal experiences you have had.
This article is 3 years old, and cites some studies. Much progress has been made.
The article posted seems to be supporting a clear line to murder based on child abuse which it looks like you are arguing against.
I don’t see anyone getting a pass here.
But IMO, bad parenting does not lead to declaring your children zombies, burning and burying them.
Dysfunctional families are not the cause of serial murderers or people like CD and LVD. Otherwise we may expect that their children would become them, only worse.
Doesn’t seem like JJ and Tylee, rest their souls, were on that path despite the horrific parenting they had to live with.
Sometimes evil just exists in humans.
Jmo

Well I'm sure I could find a more recent article. And I never said bad parenting leads to declaring your children zombies. In addition, I stated I was not excusing them of anything they have done.

BBM
I hear you, and I am sorry for the personal experiences you have had.
This article is 3 years old, and cites some studies. Much progress has been made.
The article posted seems to be supporting a clear line to murder based on child abuse which it looks like you are arguing against.
I don’t see anyone getting a pass here.
But IMO, bad parenting does not lead to declaring your children zombies, burning and burying them.
Dysfunctional families are not the cause of serial murderers or people like CD and LVD. Otherwise we may expect that their children would become them, only worse.
Doesn’t seem like JJ and Tylee, rest their souls, were on that path despite the horrific parenting they had to live with.
Sometimes evil just exists in humans. There is often a genetic predisposition of mental illness in the family line.
I personally do not think mental illness, nature or nurture plays a role in the case. I think it’s evil, greed, and self absorption. Plain and simple. Sometimes it’s just that.
Jmo

Well here is another article although 3 years is not old for a scientific article. How much would have changed in 3 years regarding the relationship between committing crimes and home environment since it has been studied for years?

Does Child Abuse Cause Crime?

I never said bad parenting leads to calling your children zombies or burning or burying them. In fact, I stated quite the opposite. I stated that I was NOT excusing them of anything they have done, if you read my post. And no one knows what future behavior JJ or Tylee would have exhibited. How would you know how a 7 year old would behave as an adult? And I beg to differ, scientific studies show a link between child abuse and crime. I also did not say mental illness, nature, or nurture played a role in THIS case. My post was in response to a post by @gumchew that stated this: Based on my own experiences and as a student of the human condition, I think most humans (as children) are generally very psychologically resilient. I've known people from the most horrible childhoods you could imagine who have done some of the most remarkably positive things in their lives and for other people. And I've seen people who come from the most unremarkably normal childhoods go on to commit unspeakable atrocities.
ETA: If you are going to reply to my posts, make sure you respond to what I said.

 

[gumchew]

I actually think the Rexburg PD might do this. Drop the charges on the 22nd.

I think you mean “drop” like a new record, right? Maybe it’s just me but “drop the charges”didn’t read right somehow

 

[gumchew]

BBM: I wouldn't rule out a mix of all of the above.

Nor would I!

 

[Leney]

A couple things...
1. Lori still is a resident of Hawaii
2. It looks like we could all join the zoom meeting with the link and address .

View attachment 255698

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR33-20-0302/Notice of Remote Hearing CR.pdf

BBM

She waived extradition.

There is ZERO chance that this will return to HI

I suspect additional charges not only out of Idaho, but as well Arizona.
LE and the prosecutors have probably discussed all potential scenario's

 

[Leney]

LE has had access to these court files and already used them. For instance, in arguing against lower bail, prosecutor RW argued Lori was a flight risk and had been uncooperative and insubordinate in past court cases.

Agree.

The initial bond was at 5 million.
A judge in the state of Hawaii as well set the bond at 5 million and reconfirmed that amount at a subsequent hearing.
These documents probably formed part of the Court records.