Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 16, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *Arrests* #47

[indicolite22]

I tend to think that maybe CV had the order reversed, that LV was already reading CD's books and then claimed that she also had an NDE so that she could talk to him about it - maybe get a book going similar to JR, with whom the whole idea of NDEs originated with.

I really don't have much doubt though, that it is fairly likely that LV did and does have hallucinations (auditory or visual) or very vivid dreams that could be related to schizophrenia. JMO

BBM. The idea of NDEs likely started much earlier. Chad published Suzanne Freeman's NDE experience back in 2004. Visions of Glory by John Pontius was also very popular in his circles. It came out in 2012, two years before JR's first book.

 

[Forever Young]

BBM. The idea of NDEs likely started much earlier. Chad published Suzanne Freeman's NDE experience back in 2004. Visions of Glory by John Pontius was also very popular in his circles. It came out in 2012, two years before JR's first book.

There have been many books about NDEs going back for years to Dr. Elizabeth Kubler-Ross in the 1970s and probably before. I should have said more accurately that JR claimed that Chad took the idea from her. IMO

 

[Forever Young]

I did find a reference to the NDE mentioned by CV's lawyer Taylor Larson made to Nancy Grace here @8:45.

 

[gumchew]

RSBM

More accurately what I think they both are describing, if anything happened, was an out of body experience. If not, I would be interested in finding out what trauma nearly killed Lori in Hawaii to where she lie dead on the table and extraordinary measures were taken to regain her breathing and heart beat.

Maybe someone took her to an REI?

 

[Sorelle19]

Rob Wood did not use these old family court/custody case files you're referring to. They've not been brought up, which (in addition to the privacy aspect and lack of redaction) is why some folks here are voicing concerns that digging them up and releasing/discussing them here runs afoul of the spirit of being victim-friendly. Rob Wood's argument against bail reduction in March was based on LVD's evasive and uncooperative behavior within the scope of the disappearance of JJ and Tylee.

WATCH: Judge reduces Lori Vallow Daybell's bail amount to $1 million | East Idaho News

They have indeed been brought up, by both Idaho and Hawaii, and stating otherwise is simply posting misinformation.

Here's Rob Woods at 36:19 from the March 6 hearing, where he states: "The defendant has an history of defying court orders. In a 2009 child custody case in Travis, Texas, she was found guilty of seven counts of criminal contempt."

In fact, it's irrational to think former court documents from suspects WOULDN'T be used for arguments if they favor the prosecution (in this case, used because they show a pattern by Lori). And of course, they've had access to all of them for a long time.

 

[Sorelle19]

The post you're referring to is making reference to the 17 year custody documents from Texas. Not anything from Hawaii.

Not true. Both Hawaii and Idaho prosecutors took note of Lori Vallow's seven convictions for civil contempt in the 2009 court case in Travis, Texas.

Not 17 years old - 11, and HIGHLY RELEVANT, so much so that they were used as a basis for denying her a lower bond amount.

This feels like a further attempt to discredit prior court documents that span a 20-year period, some that were obtained by WTAF. While I respect your right to object to their publication and reading, I don't think misinforming people to further an agenda is cool.

 

[Teche]

It sounds like you'll be in heaven on the 22nd if all doesn't go according to the Vallow-Daybell. Detour round the end of days entirely, straight to a delectable life we might all wish for. Yum!

Maybe funeral potatoes on the menu?!

 

[155etta]

There are still 2 serious felony charges and another $1M bail keeping her in jail in the Fremont County case. Even if she gets reduced bail in the Madison County case, she still has the other (felony) case to contend with.

Could she possibly be trying to get out of the Madison County jail and into the Fremont County jail where Chad is? If she posted bail on the Madison charges and then just had the million dollar bond on the Fremont charges, would they have to transfer to the Fremont County jail?

 

[GoneGoldfishin']

Does anyone have access to NG podcasts? I just listened to one she interviewed CV's Atty who said LVD had a "near death experience" in Hawaii while they lived there. That is how/why she got so enthralled w/CD, PaP, AVOW, reading LDS NDE books over and over. I wanted to provide the link but I cannot get access on my laptop and can't seem to find it. I don't remember hearing this info in her 1st interview with this Atty but maybe this was a replay? So sorry I can't provide more info but either I didn't pay attention before or this is a new podcast w/CV's Atty. Can anyone help?

Crime Stories with Nancy Grace
July 8
At a little past the 15 minutes mark
And as we discussed earlier in the thread, it was surely a lie.
Found Deceased - ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 16, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *Arrests* #47

 

[gumchew]

RSBM

How does LE handle all of these jurisdictions as they did with the Golden State Killer when many states? Feds? So glad the FBI is sitting there in Rexburg still.

At least I assume they are still there as @RexburgSleuth hasn't said they left yet.

JMO IANAL

For the moment, each of the crimes (alleged and suspected) seem to be fairly neatly contained in a specific state.

The current felony case (conspiracy to destroy, alter or conceal evidence) seems to fall squarely in Idaho. The (likely) murder charges themselves would fall in Idaho. Any murder case around TD would likewise seem to fall squarely in Idaho. The murder of CV falls squarely in AZ, as does the BB attempted shooting, and (if evidence surfaces to make it homicide) AxC's death.

If things stay neatly contained, the involved states (principally ID and AZ) each prosecute the crimes committed in their own states. I am not sure what the procedural rules are for that, but I would assume the states would negotiate for order of precedence (who gets them first), and I'd assume that Idaho would win that contest, since there's a trial process already in motion, and the murder of the children is the focus of tremendous national public attention and outrage.

If we look to Ted Bundy's case(s) for an (extreme) example, he was convicted for the murders he committed in Utah and then extradited to Colorado to stand trial for the murder(s) he committed there. Then, of course, he escaped and committed the Chi Omega sorority house murders in Florida, for which he was eventually tried, convicted, and executed (in Florida).

Although the FBI is helping with the investigation, it doesn't seem like the federal government would have jurisdiction for murder unless certain criteria are met, mostly dealing with murder of federal officials, or on federal property or in federal jurisdiction like on a ship.

However! There are a couple of scenarios where one or more of these murders could be considered federal crimes:

Murder by mail (18 U.S.C. Section 1716) -- If, for instance (and I don't favor these theories) someone used the US Postal Service to send Alex Cox some toxic agent to cause his death, that would be a federal crime.

Murder for hire (18 U.S.C. Section 1958) -- "Use of interstate commerce facilities in the commission of murder-for-hire". If any of our band of misfits solicited anyone else to travel across state lines in the commission of (or conspiracy to commit) a murder, or used phone, email, or internet to conspire or facilitate murder, then that could be a federal crime.

It will be interesting to see how this all plays out as the investigation(s) unfold!

JMO IANAL

 

[altojack]

BBM. The idea of NDEs likely started much earlier. Chad published Suzanne Freeman's NDE experience back in 2004. Visions of Glory by John Pontius was also very popular in his circles. It came out in 2012, two years before JR's first book.

It's possible that she could have read any number of books on the subject, especially if she knew of the LDS history and read bits and pieces that aroused her curiosity.

Her marriages didn't last very long, not one of them. I wonder what caused the spilts with 1 and 2?

 

[gumchew]

They have indeed been brought up, by both Idaho and Hawaii, and stating otherwise is simply posting misinformation.

Here's Rob Woods at 36:19 from the March 6 hearing, where he states: "The defendant has an history of defying court orders. In a 2009 child custody case in Travis, Texas, she was found guilty of seven counts of criminal contempt."

Thank you for pointing this out, I had missed the reference to the 2009 case. Still, nobody has brought up the matter of the 2003 documents that I was referring to (hence my characterization of them as "17 year old" documents), which is the only piece I've briefly seen (since WTAF, or someone with their permission, linked the watermarked copy of the Texas documents here as "VALLOW711.pdf").

In fact, it's irrational to think former court documents from suspects WOULDN'T be used for arguments if they favor the prosecution (in this case, used because they show a pattern by Lori). And of course, they've had access to all of them for a long time.

It seems that you're setting up a straw man here, as I never speculated on whether anyone "would" or "could" reference those documents. I simply commented on whether they "did" reference the documents. For at least Charles Vallow's 2003 custody case, they did not.

@Sorelle19 if you can show me that I have said otherwise, I will gladly retract my statement, as I don't intentionally spread misinformation. However, I'd appreciate it if you'd confine your rebuttal to what I actually stated. Otherwise, I think that accusing me of posting misinformation is both discourteous and unfair.

 

[Leney]

Thank you for pointing this out, I had missed the reference to the 2009 case. Still, nobody has brought up the matter of the 2003 documents that I was referring to (hence my characterization of them as "17 year old" documents), which is the only piece I've briefly seen (since WTAF, or someone with their permission, linked the watermarked copy of the Texas documents here as "VALLOW711.pdf").



It seems that you're setting up a straw man here, as I never speculated on whether anyone "would" or "could" reference those documents. I simply commented on whether they "did" reference the documents. For at least Charles Vallow's 2003 custody case, they did not.

@Sorelle19 if you can show me that I have said otherwise, I will gladly retract my statement, as I don't intentionally spread misinformation. However, I'd appreciate it if you'd confine your rebuttal to what I actually stated. Otherwise, I think that accusing me of posting misinformation is both discourteous and unfair.

Not only is this complete misinformation, it is utter rubbish.

JR fought for custody for YEARS !
During that time both JR's and CV's cases were "merged".

These documents would of been available to all parties involved.
To state that a judge would not take into consideration a long, protracted, contentious custody battle is naive.

 

[Drc40]

If you're going to reference these documents, you should know what years they span and what they're about. Sorry no one else is calling you out.

When I first started here I was guilty of posting and replying to every little detail about a case. These crimes bring out strong feelings in most of us. Posts like “I agree”, “good post”, “you’re right”, “good idea”, etc. add to your post count but brings nothing to the discussion. From there it’s easy to get caught up in emotions and go on a power posting spree.

I was guilty of doing the same when I first got here. Thankfully I received a private message from a veteran who gave me excellent advice. If you’ve been paying attention you’ll see that some of the veteran sleuthers have backed away from these Vallow threads. That’s sad and diminishes the quality of the content. I hope people spend a little more time thinking about what they post before pressing the “send” button. Not every little detail about a case requires your input. So many of these threads are full of “scroll and roll” posts. Im sure you’ve noticed but these threads have slowed way down. Some of its because there is a lull but for me and others it’s probably poor content. WS is normally a cut above and I hope it stays that way. Cheers ...

 

[Tortoise]

New timeline is up everyone


Part I of XXI (Update 9) - (List of Initials / Persons associated with the case)
Part II of XXI (Update 9) - Beginning TO 24 Feb 2006 (wedding day of Charles Vallow and Lori Ryan)
Part III of XXI (Update 9) - (25 Feb 2006 (post CV & LV wedding day) TO end of 2017)
Part IV of XXI (Update 9) - (2018)
Part V of XXI (Update 9) - 1 January 2019 TO 28 February 2019
Part VI of XXI (Update 9) - 1 March 2019 TO 10 July 2019
Part VII of XXI (Update 9) - A Timeline of July 11th 2019, the day Charles Vallow was Shot to Death
Part VIII of XXI (Update 9) - 12 July 2019 TO 31 August 2019
Part IX of XXI (Update 9) - September 2019
Part X of XXI (Update 9) - October 2019
Part XI of XXI (Update 9) - November 2019
Part XII of XXI (Update 9) - December 2019
Part XIII of XXI (Update 9) - January 2020
Part XIV of XXI (Update 9) - 1 February 2020 TO 18 February 2020
Part XV of XXI (Update 9) - 19 February 2020 TO 29 February 2020
Part XVI of XXI (Update 9) - March 2020
Part XVII of XXI (Update 9) - April 2020
Part XVIII of XXI (Update 9) - May 2020
Part XIX of XXI (Update 9) - June 2020
Part XX of XXI (Update 9) - July 2020
Part XXI of XXI (Update 9) - August 2020 and beyond

 

[sunflowerchick]

When I first started here I was guilty of posting and replying to every little detail about a case. These crimes bring out strong feelings in most of us. Posts like “I agree”, “good post”, “you’re right”, “good idea”, etc. add to your post count but brings nothing to the discussion. From there it’s easy to get caught up in emotions and go on a power posting venture.

I was guilty of doing the same when I first got here. Thankfully I received a private message from a veteran who gave me excellent advice. If you’ve been paying attention you’ll see that some of the veteran sleuthers have backed away from these Vallow threads. That’s sad and diminishes the quality of the content. I hope people spend a little more time thinking about what they post before pressing the “send” button. Not every little detail about a case requires your input. So many of these threads are full of “scroll and roll” posts. Im sure you’ve noticed but these threads have slowed way down. Some of its because there is a lull but for me and others it’s probably poor content. WS is normally a cut above and I hope it stays that way. Cheers ...

Agree with this completely and was thinking of a way to say this. You did a better job than I ever could. Sadly, I have seen this often when a case "slows down". We find ourselves bickering over little things because the news dries up. At this point, I find myself checking here for updates, but otherwise staying out. I hope justice is served for these poor kids and await more information that we can discuss.

 

[Tricia]

( Hey mods if you make a ew thread before 10 PM Eastern tonight, Thursday, please include this post in the new thread. Thank you)

Hey Everyone,

Be sure and join us live tonight at 10 PM Eastern on Websleuths Live as we welcome the creators of rh YT Channel WTAF Wicked Truths and F-Bombs Danielle and Aimee.

Danielle and Aimee are the incredible women who were able to find the custody case documents between Jim Ryan and Lori Vallow. Not just those documents either. There's more
CLICK HERE AT 10 EASTERN TO JOIN US TONIGHT ON WEBSLEUTHS YOUTUBE LIVE

 

[Sorelle19]

When I first started here I was guilty of posting and replying to every little detail about a case. These crimes bring out strong feelings in most of us. Posts like “I agree”, “good post”, “you’re right”, “good idea”, etc. add to your post count but brings nothing to the discussion. From there it’s easy to get caught up in emotions and go on a power posting spree.

I was guilty of doing the same when I first got here. Thankfully I received a private message from a veteran who gave me excellent advice. If you’ve been paying attention you’ll see that some of the veteran sleuthers have backed away from these Vallow threads. That’s sad and diminishes the quality of the content. I hope people spend a little more time thinking about what they post before pressing the “send” button. Not every little detail about a case requires your input. So many of these threads are full of “scroll and roll” posts. Im sure you’ve noticed but these threads have slowed way down. Some of its because there is a lull but for me and others it’s probably poor content. WS is normally a cut above and I hope it stays that way. Cheers ...

I have seen some of the vets backing away. I've backed away too, mostly because the thread seems to rehash the same speculation. Anyway, well said. I was trying to make sure the message got out that the court records are multi-year, multi-case, multi-faceted, heavily quoted, and most have nothing to do with sexual abuse allegations. The 2003 records are CV and CW's divorce docs. Anyways, nuff said, and I hope everyone does their own due diligence.

 

[wenwe4]

Woo Hoo Tricia! I am excited to join the podcast tonight and hear more about this case. I am hoping these ladies have had an opportunity to do some "timeline" input from all of the documents. It just floors me that LVD has gotten away with so many violations of court orders, played so many games with the legal system and her ex-husbands lives, livelihood, reputations, and ability to be a father to their own children.

I think that LVD found "kindred spirits" w/CD through "visions" and "seeing through the veil" whether that was dreams, auditory/visual hallucinations, wishful thinking, or just plain power/control/manipulation. MG made statements about how LVD always wanted a "spiritual man" and if her family of origin claims to be descendants of Joseph Smith - it makes sense to me that she would be enamored by someone who could recite scripture on a whim.

Maybe LVD envied CD for for being "top student" for scripture search in Seminary? (We used to get a mini tootsie roll and that ladies & gentlemen is why I can still recite the names of all the books of the Old Testament within 15 seconds or less).

 

[gumchew]

I have seen some of the vets backing away. I've backed away too, mostly because the thread seems to rehash the same speculation. Anyway, well said. I was trying to make sure the message got out that the court records are multi-year, multi-case, multi-faceted, heavily quoted, and most have nothing to do with sexual abuse allegations. The 2003 records are CV and CW's divorce docs. Anyways, nuff said, and I hope everyone does their own due diligence.

I acknowledge all those points. Peace in our time! Yay!