Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 16, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *Arrests* #48

[Hatfield]

Assuming Alex's death is also suspicious, if he was the one who did all the murders, why would he have to then be "offed"?

JMO
Because he would be able to testify who was directing him to harm others.

The one thing amongst many others that has confused me about this case is the very quick marriages that a few of the couples had.

At least 3 different sets of marriages happened very quickly after hardly knowing the other person. My theory on why is I am guessing at least two of those marriages were done for the sole purpose of offing spouses to get money from life insurance. I have no way to know if that was the primary reason for some of the quick marriages other than 1 out of 3 of the spouses ended up dead right after a quick marriage, the 2nd couple are both in jail and both their previous spouses are dead, and the 3rd couple I feel the husband is lucky to be alive and lucky that LE finally charged LVD and CD because that put a halt to more spousal killings for money.

 

[Forever Young]

Alex tazed Joe in 2007. Lori had not met Chad yet at that point.

I assume it would be to prevent him from dragging others into it. He may have physically done the murders, but he didn't act on his own.

My response was in the context of questioning when Alex joined Chad and Lori's cult (as if we know that he did) and how he did not seem very religious before that ( as if we knew he was very religious at the end); and then questioning if he became involved in the cult prior to the shooting of Charles Vallow, (again assuming that we know he is the one who did the shooting).

That made me question to myself if Alex ever was what we would call "really religious".

I was fairly sure that hyper-religiosity had not come into play during the assault on Joe Ryan, because Lori at that point had not come into any kind of contact with Chad Daybell. So religion had nothing to do with the death of Joe Ryan. That was money driven.

I think it is very possible that Lori committed all the murders, which were all money-driven, and Alex only covered them up for her. Since he knew that, and could side with Chad on the story of how Tylee and JJ were buried on Chad's property, and how the murder of Tammy Daybell was pulled off, he had to be murdered himself.

Now instead of two against one (in testimony), we only have her word against his.

IMO speculating a possible scenario in my mind.

 

[mommacass]

JMO
Because he would be able to testify who was directing him to harm others.

The one thing amongst many others that has confused me about this case is the very quick marriages that a few of the couples had.

At least 3 different sets of marriages happened very quickly after hardly knowing the other person. My theory on why is I am guessing at least two of those marriages were done for the sole purpose of offing spouses to get money from life insurance. I have no way to know if that was the primary reason for some of the quick marriages other than 1 out of 3 of the spouses ended up dead right after a quick marriage, the 2nd couple are both in jail and both their previous spouses are dead, and the 3rd couple I feel the husband is lucky to be alive and lucky that LE finally charged LVD and CD because that put a halt to more spousal killings for money.

Every insurance policy I have ever had has had a long grace period before it became effective. I don't see how the quick marriage of Alx and ZP resulted in any insurance payoff. I've read that the Coxes were in the insurance business, so perhaps that can make a difference?? Not sure, and all my opinion.

 

[Hatfield]

Every insurance policy I have ever had has had a long grace period before it became effective. I don't see how the quick marriage of Alx and ZP resulted in any insurance payoff. I've read that the Coxes were in the insurance business, so perhaps that can make a difference?? Not sure, and all my opinion.

Good point that if they knew of someone close to them that was selling insurance or could arrange to get an insurance policy then maybe some of them were able to get around some of the normal qualifications.

I am unfamiliar with life insurance policies other than the standard ones that are automatically given to employees as part of a benefit of employment. For those, I dont remember about any sort of grace period for life insurance because the "group" insurance is given to all employees and the actuarial studies on a "group" of employees must have shown there is not a real danger there for that group of someone abusing the policy. I think those are considered "Group Insurance" or "Group Life Insurance" of some sort.

If an individual tries to buy their own insurance, then I am pretty sure there would be a difference in the application process and some of the rules there could be different.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

Glad it's not affecting the prelims!

Trial dates pushed back again as COVID-19 spreads across Idaho | East Idaho News

IDAHO FALLS — The Idaho Supreme Court has again pushed back the start of jury trials as COVID-19 continues to spike across the Gem State.

Initially, judges decided in April to not start any trials until the first Monday in August. However, “due to the continuing rise in positive COVID-19 cases throughout Idaho,” the Idaho Supreme Court says no criminal trial should start before Sept. 14 and no civil trial before Dec. 1, according to a judicial order issued on Friday.

“If the public cannot be physically present in the courtroom, a publically accessible live audio and video stream of the proceedings must be provided,” the order reads.

 

[Love Never Fails]

JMO
Because he would be able to testify who was directing him to harm others.

The one thing amongst many others that has confused me about this case is the very quick marriages that a few of the couples had.

At least 3 different sets of marriages happened very quickly after hardly knowing the other person. My theory on why is I am guessing at least two of those marriages were done for the sole purpose of offing spouses to get money from life insurance. I have no way to know if that was the primary reason for some of the quick marriages other than 1 out of 3 of the spouses ended up dead right after a quick marriage, the 2nd couple are both in jail and both their previous spouses are dead, and the 3rd couple I feel the husband is lucky to be alive and lucky that LE finally charged LVD and CD because that put a halt to more spousal killings for money.

I’m interested to know if Zulema had an insurance policy on Alex’s life. It would make sense that Chad and Lori convinced her she needed to marry Alex because he had become a zombie and needed to die and she would be left very wealthy. It would take care of their problems as well since he would no longer be a “witness” against them.

Of course, nothing or no one will take care of their problems.

 

[mickey2942]

I really believe they will point the finger at Alex. However, CD will have a much harder time of it due to the "buried raccoon" in the pet cemetery and his cell pings. I believe LE also has the cell records and perhaps cctv from LVDs apartment. Even if they throw the guilt at Alex, it still does not explain all of LVDs lies about the kids.

But Casey Anthony did nothing but lie about Caylee's disappearance. And she is free.

 

[Spartygirl]

But Casey Anthony did nothing but lie about Caylee's disappearance. And she is free.

UGH-- yes, she is.
I hope these lying liars get put behind bars and not able to go free.
There are a few others that should be right there with them, IMO

 

[mickey2942]

@Spartygirl the Latter Day Saint General Conference will be the first week of October. It will be interesting to see what the General Authorities say this year.

I am thinking that there may be something about the dangers of false prophets.

 

[Forever Young]

Every insurance policy I have ever had has had a long grace period before it became effective. I don't see how the quick marriage of Alx and ZP resulted in any insurance payoff. I've read that the Coxes were in the insurance business, so perhaps that can make a difference?? Not sure, and all my opinion.

Yes, I had a life insurance policy that stated "limited benefits for the first 2 years". I also have been curious if there was any life insurance on Alex and if Lori wasn't named the beneficiary. She could have taken one out on him herself, but I believe she would have had to have the foresight to do that at least a couple of years prior to his death.

 

[Hatfield]

UGH-- yes, she is.
I hope these lying liars get put behind bars and not able to go free.
There are a few others that should be right there with them, IMO

JMO
If there has been any form of Insurance Fraud then that could be another avenue LE could take to hold people responsible.

Like if someone helped others obtain life insurance policies on their spouse and falsely skirted some of the waiting grace periods for married couples, then that could open up the door for LE to take action.

Any form of Insurance Fraud is usually a very big deal because the insurance companies themselves have a vested interest in making sure any claims are valid claims. They even have their own investigations at times.

I would hope by now LE is digging into whether there were any life insurance policies that existed and how they were obtained.

 

[mommacass]

JMO
If there has been any form of Insurance Fraud then that could be another avenue LE could take to hold people responsible.

Like if someone helped others obtain life insurance policies on their spouse and falsely skirted some of the waiting grace periods for married couples, then that could open up the door for LE to take action.

Any form of Insurance Fraud is usually a very big deal because the insurance companies themselves have a vested interest in making sure any claims are valid claims. They even have their own investigations at times.

I would hope by now LE is digging into whether there were any life insurance policies that existed and how they were obtained.

Excellent point.

 

[mommacass]

Yes, I had a life insurance policy that stated "limited benefits for the first 2 years". I also have been curious if there was any life insurance on Alex and if Lori wasn't named the beneficiary. She could have taken one out on him herself, but I believe she would have had to have the foresight to do that at least a couple of years prior to his death.

I agree, you are right.

 

[887sMtreme]

<Respectfully snipped for focus>
Assuming Alex's death is also suspicious, if he was the one who did all the murders, why would he have to then be "offed"?

Presumably to prevent him from sharing who put him up to it.

 

[Forever Young]

Presumably to prevent him from sharing who put him up to it.

I just can't see the motivation for Alex to have murdered his blood niece so that Lori could benefit, let alone the others by whose death he also would not benefit. If he were a murderer, why not kill somebody who would leave HIM a million dollars?

The more I think about it, the more I see Alex trying to get Lori out of a jam - first by taking the blame for shooting CV, and then the disposing of her already dead children. It makes more sense to me that the murders were already done by Lori, and Alex tried to help her cover them up. Then, the person who actually did the murders, killed the one who knew that she was the one who did them. IMO

 

[Hatfield]

I just can't see the motivation for Alex to have murdered his blood niece so that Lori could benefit, let alone the others by whose death he also would not benefit. If he were a murderer, why not kill somebody who would leave HIM a million dollars?

The more I think about it, the more I see Alex trying to get Lori out of a jam - first by taking the blame for shooting CV, and then the disposing of her already dead children. It makes more sense to me that the murders were already done by Lori, and Alex tried to help her cover them up. Then, the person who actually did the murders, killed the one who knew that she was the one who did them. IMO

JMO
You could be right. Another thought is maybe he was promised a financial benefit for certain assistance he may have provided. Whether that was just helping to hide bodies, provide a self defense cover story in CV's death, or taking a more active role.

 

[SeattleStew]

Most changes to beneficiary are enacted immediately. So, AC could have had a previous life insurance policy, and then named ZP as beneficiary at anytime. There would not be any waiting period for the beneficiary to collect.

 

[indicolite22]

I just can't see the motivation for Alex to have murdered his blood niece so that Lori could benefit, let alone the others by whose death he also would not benefit. If he were a murderer, why not kill somebody who would leave HIM a million dollars?

The more I think about it, the more I see Alex trying to get Lori out of a jam - first by taking the blame for shooting CV, and then the disposing of her already dead children. It makes more sense to me that the murders were already done by Lori, and Alex tried to help her cover them up. Then, the person who actually did the murders, killed the one who knew that she was the one who did them. IMO

Alex did try to kill BB. I'm not sure if it was for financial gain on his part. Lori and Chad were involved there too. MBP told IP that Alex's faith was so strong that no task was too difficult for him. MG also said that he truly believed in Chad's doctrine.

 

[CSIDreamer]

Alex did try to kill BB. I'm not sure if it was for financial gain on his part. Lori and Chad were involved there too. MBP told IP that Alex's faith was so strong that no task was too difficult for him. MG also said that he truly believed in Chad's doctrine.

I've forgotten where we found out for sure about Alex trying to kill BB? I'm a bit behind. Can you refresh my memory?

 

[JolietJake]

I just can't see the motivation for Alex to have murdered his blood niece so that Lori could benefit, let alone the others by whose death he also would not benefit. If he were a murderer, why not kill somebody who would leave HIM a million dollars?

The more I think about it, the more I see Alex trying to get Lori out of a jam - first by taking the blame for shooting CV, and then the disposing of her already dead children. It makes more sense to me that the murders were already done by Lori, and Alex tried to help her cover them up. Then, the person who actually did the murders, killed the one who knew that she was the one who did them. IMO

My thoughts are still pretty much main stream being in the camp that AxC actually did all the killing including CV and the children based on the evidence we've already seen and his history. I also believe he was the one shooting at both BB and TD and hopefully cell phone pings can prove that. As far as TD being murdered, I wouldn't doubt if AxC was allowed in by CD to kill her or perhaps CD did it himself.

My questions would be why but considering the nuttiness in that family, religious fanaticism gone wild was the core purpose. In the case of CV, besides the fanaticism, I'd say it was revenge, hate, and insurance money so LV and CD can enjoy their last months on the planet. In the case of TD and children, I believe they were in the way of LV and CD's Utopia. In the case of BB it was "Felony Melani" (I stole that monkier from some web site) borrowing AxC for her own revenge, hatred, and religious fanaticism following the example set forth by her favorite aunt.

If it goes deeper than that, it wouldn't surprise me one bit but I really don't think it does based on the evidence we've seen so far and the lack of brain power in the perps. BTW, what isn't surprising is that now that LV and CD are behind bars, AxC is dead, and MP is under the microscope that no more killings or shootings have happened surrounding that cult.

Of course, all the above is MOO.