Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 16, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *Arrests* #51

[Nurse Gen]

I would bet that the children/siblings/parents of Chad/Lori/AC know if the dog and cat that were by the body were theirs... or not.. or perhaps background on such that were found near the grave that didn't need the anthropologist to identify.

Supposedly, the three signs and triad iirc of a serial killer are

1)wetting the bed (as a child, so as an adult, only siblings/parents or friends when young would know) MOO
2)fires/arson
3)hurting animals

Just looked it up.. there are mannnnnnnnnnnny links to such triad and we have discussed this in many cases here at WS MOO

"The Macdonald triad refers to the idea that there are three signs that can indicate whether someone will grow up to be a serial killer or other kind of violent criminal: being cruel or abusive to animals, especially pets. setting fire to objects or otherwise committing minor acts of arson. regularly wetting the bed.Mar 24, 2020"

The Macdonald Triad: Can 3 Behaviors Predict a Serial Killer?

And then there's Chad mentioning in his memoir how he enjoyed killing bees as a child iirc

 

[Nurse Gen]

I think the Macdonald triad which, was from the 60s, has been largely unproven.
Triad of Evil

Interesting article but it's not discrediting McDonald's Triad, but rather pointing out that cluster of bedwetting, animal cruelty and arson are not an ironclad indicator that a child will become a serial killer.

It's a different matter to identify those behaviors in the childhood of an adult known or suspected to have committed violent crime, and include the childhood behaviour in an overall assessment of that adult's psychopathology.

IMO McDonald's Triad is worth considering in this case

 

[Nurse Gen]

Does it apply to females (LVD)too? Curious about her.

Yes it does

 

[DippyHippy]

I saw a great comment on youtube iv'e not seen mentioned before, Why would they choose a weekend when MG and her BF were coming to stay over to kill the kids? Surely you would want not want anybody else around at the time?

But then it could be said that having people around would give them an alibi - that there were all these people at the house, busy, busy, making a podcast.....I wonder when the date to record the podcast had been first arranged - had it been set long before that weekend, or was it a last minute rush job as the 'opportunity' to fulfil another part of their mission became available? All my own opinion/thoughts.

 

[acutename]

I have relistened to the tape. There are several types of sounds, scribbling, crackling, and possible recorder movement. In my own amateur way, I counted approximately 27-30 such sounds. Out of those, my ear (unprofessional!!) counted 11-12 scribbles on a pad. This probably helps nobody; I was just curious to do this for myself. ALL IMO

does anyone else understand why LV(D) and CD even participated in this conversation? Did they think they would find out something from MG? Wouldn't it have been better for them, from their perspective, to have said "Hey, MG, great to hear from you, but our dinner is about to burn up... gotta go; we'll call you back later..." or some other blythe excuse? Some people have said they knew it was probably recorded or that MG was fishing for information, so why did they not avoid the conversation?

 

[887sMtreme]

And then there's Chad mentioning in his memoir how he enjoyed killing bees as a child iirc

Given the symbolic use of bee images in LDS culture, I find this particularly of interest.

 

[887sMtreme]

Thanks, but it was Onsdag who brought this up (that post is linked below). I originally thought JJ must have heard those words shouted at him when CV was shot, but I now agree with Onsdag that it is more likely he witnessed something happening to TR.

I missed that post last night, and it was spectacular. Thanks for pointing me to it.

 

[Nurse Gen]

Given the symbolic use of bee images in LDS culture, I find this particularly of interest.

@887sMtreme please elaborate, I didn't know anything about that and am interested

 

[acutename]

JDough said: ↑
I still can't get over how a mother could either participate in, or know about the impending murder of her own children (which may have been the plan all along), and go on with her daily life like nothing ever happened. It's just unimaginable to me.

Same feelings for the death of Lori's ex-husband, brother (conveniently), and Chad's first wife. Chad and Lori have effectively eliminated nearly every person who would object, or knew their dastardly deeds and could act as a witness against them. Puppet masters with no conscious- that's what they are.
And JR

Because I waiver on whether this scenario was triggered by lust for money or garden variety lust, I have wondered that if in order to be 100% focused on each other (!) LV(D) and CD wanted to eliminiate the rest of the world -it was getting in the way of their vision, or their mission.... so, the children, the spouses, the sibling- dump them. But unless I am really missing something, I do not see the previous part of CD's life including murders, IMO. Did they really convince each other that the end of the world was neigh, so killing a few people a few months early would be negligible? Did they plan on staying in Hawaii until the insurance money ran out? Li they had not been running from the law, what would they be doing? I also wonder if LV(D) ever misses her children- not because she cared about them, but because they were dependent on her and emotionally supported her, and were a captive audience to her and now she has no one, all IMO.

ug... do not know how to fix this... stuf in the box attributed to JFlomm was written by me- acutename- the quote is sort of mixed up. sorry.

 

[RickshawFan]

Excellent. Especially when using “BBC British,” they use their mouths and lips more than Americans tend to.

Brits hit the consonants. Americans tend to drawl and make consonants mushy. The only thing you might run into is that Brits speak much faster than Americans.

How good are you at lip-reading sidebars during trials? I'm thinking this case might give you a lot of practice that you can share?

 

[nyvictoria]

does anyone else understand why LV(D) and CD even participated in this conversation? Did they think they would find out something from MG? Wouldn't it have been better for them, from their perspective, to have said "Hey, MG, great to hear from you, but our dinner is about to burn up... gotta go; we'll call you back later..." or some other blythe excuse? Some people have said they knew it was probably recorded or that MG was fishing for information, so why did they not avoid the conversation?

IMO
They believe they’re smarter than MG and the rest of the world. They have extra special wisdom, direct from the angels or wherever they get their vast spiritual knowledge. IOW ego.

 

[nyvictoria]

JDough said: ↑
I still can't get over how a mother could either participate in, or know about the impending murder of her own children (which may have been the plan all along), and go on with her daily life like nothing ever happened. It's just unimaginable to me.

Same feelings for the death of Lori's ex-husband, brother (conveniently), and Chad's first wife. Chad and Lori have effectively eliminated nearly every person who would object, or knew their dastardly deeds and could act as a witness against them. Puppet masters with no conscious- that's what they are.
And JR

I just posted about this up thread regarding jury selection. I fear that a juror would not be able to convict because it’s unimaginable for a mother to do what Lori did.

 

[acutename]

Given the symbolic use of bee images in LDS culture, I find this particularly of interest.

for those, who like me said "what?"

The Symbolism of the Beehive in Latter-day Saint Tradition | BYU Studies

 

[wenwe4]

I have another nagging issue in this case. Everyone knows LVD's children were buried (bound, burned, mutilated) for months in CD's backyard. All that time her children are completely vanished, gone. People all over the world are wondering where LVD's kids are except her & CD (and maybe AC before he died). The mere fact that she didn't get worried that her kids were missing because she told MG that she knew "exactly where they are" and they are safe & happy. This speaks to consciousness of guilt to me. She was more annoyed with people "questioning her" about the missing kids than she has ever been about the kids being "missing". How dare anyone question her - after all - she is a Goddess . . . just ask her.

 

[Sticksandspades]

Tylee told the police during an interview that Charles had sent her a link to a strange website about their church and said this is whats happening.

Was the name of this website ever uncovered? I wonder what it was and whether it has been taken down.

That's a great question for Nate to ask MG!

 

[mickey2942]

I just posted about this up thread regarding jury selection. I fear that a juror would not be able to convict because it’s unimaginable for a mother to do what Lori did.

Not for me. And I believe that many people have been exposed to numerous stories about women who have killed their children. Susan Smith, Dianne Downs, just to name a few.

Women are more likely to abuse children and kill them than men.

 

[Sticksandspades]

There's an item that keeps bugging me about this whole "bonfire in the backyard" scenario to conceal Tylee's remains. It takes a lot of wood to do this. CD doesn't have much vegetation in the backyard. Where is all this wood coming from?

-If he's using brush that he cut, it would have smoked like crazy.
-They would have needed logs, IMO. Seasoned logs.
-If they're bringing wood in or hauling it from the barn, they'd need the pickup or some other obvious method. With a wheelbarrow, they'd be going all morning.
-It's possible they did a run for "camp wood", which could account for the one ping-trip where AlC left the county and came right back.

In the evidence category, it's possible LE can retrieve electronic records of transactions at the gas station(s) or convenience stores. This happened in the Arias case, years after the fact.
They'd likely have access to both AlC's credit card records and the gas station *** records.

I hope they have video from the gas station.

 

[mickey2942]

Interesting article but it's not discrediting McDonald's Triad, but rather pointing out that cluster of bedwetting, animal cruelty and arson are not an ironclad indicator that a child will become a serial killer.

It's a different matter to identify those behaviors in the childhood of an adult known or suspected to have committed violent crime, and include the childhood behaviour in an overall assessment of that adult's psychopathology.

IMO McDonald's Triad is worth considering in this case

I actually believe that LVD's background should be considered. There may be more issues in her past than we know about. The issue I have with "McDonald's Triad" is that it focuses exclusively on male serial killers. The model needs to be reviewed to include women serial killers as well.

 

[RickshawFan]

1) How could CV change his life insurance policy to his sister without having LVD sign off on it. IIRC during the Reagan years the laws were changed. Maybe because they had filed for a separation previously? I just thought that was a really odd thing to have happened without LVD knowingly signing off. (maybe this is a question for an Atty)

Snipped for focus....
I used to be an insurance agent, but all this is IIRC, because it's been a while.
In general, the insured pays for the policy and gets to pick who his/her beneficiary is. This can be changed at any time. Same as an IRA or TOD bank account. Same as a will. Your money, you decide. There maybe some situations that are different (e.g. insurance on a minor child), but that's the general rule.
You might be thinking of pension rules where IIRC benefit must be left for your spouse. This was to correct guys' habits of spending their whole pensions, dying, and leave nothing to their wives; you can't do that any more. Maybe this is the detail that was changed in the Reagan era?

 

[RickshawFan]

2) In CD's text to TD he said he wanted to burn the yard limb debris "before the coming storms". Honestly, who does that? I would wait until after the storm to burn all the limbs the storm knocked down.

Snipped for focus....
The wood would be too wet to burn properly after a storm. And if you have blowdown from a big rainstorm, you'd want to let it dry out first. It may be too green to burn very well, too.