Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 16, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *Arrests* #51

[Love Never Fails]

Does anyone think Lori and Means could place blame for the murders entirely on Chad and Alex and sound convincing to a jury?

Nope.

 

[Colorado303]

This isn’t the one that says they didn’t recommend prosecution, but it contains much of the same gist as the article I’m recalling. I’ll keep looking, but in the meantime:

Inside the mysterious case of 3 deaths, 2 missing children and a terrified husband

Vallow was pronounced dead at the scene. No charges were filed against Cox.

Detective Seth Tyler, of the Chandler Police Department, told ABC News on Wednesday that the case is being looked at as self-defense. It remains open in an effort to help with the missing children's investigation.

Still haven’t found it but here’s an article from 2019 that says LE and DA “investigated” — past tense.

Police seeking couple for questioning in Rexburg children’s disappearance and deaths of former spouses

Lori Vallow is also a recent widow. On July 11 in Chandler, Arizona, her brother Alex Cox shot and killed her husband, Charles Vallow. Cox said he shot his brother-in-law in self-defense. That case was under investigation by the Chandler Police Department and Maricopa County Attorney's Office.

 

[nyvictoria]

JMO
One of my main beefs with MG is she continues to "fib" and downplay her knowledge of the events from watching all her interviews. It started back with the very first interview we saw her make with the media and it has continued. Not outright lies but definitely stretching the truth about how much she knew what was happening around her.

I am thankful she is cooperating now and will be a key witness but she needs to be totally honest and testify honestly with the truth and nothing but the truth, and not pretend she was oblivious to what was going on around her.

We can totally forgive her for being duped by those two fools but she needs to own that, admit that, and admit to herself that is what happened rather than trying to continue to stretch the truth which is what she is doing in some of the interviews.

That is where I am struggling with her. She needs to be very careful to testify 100% honestly or it will hurt the case. She did good in Chad's preliminary hearing. Hopefully she will do fine during the real trials too.
All JMO of course.

BBM

Completely agree with you, particularly your statement I bolded. She also needs to stop doing these interviews. They serve no purpose other than to allow her to distance herself. The inconsistencies in her statements detract from what credibility she does have and the defense will have a field day with her when she testifies.

 

[indicolite22]

I'm curious how you know she is stretching the truth or not being completely honest? Can you share a source? Because I don't think we actually know how much she knew. Yes, she lied. Who hasn't TBH? I don't think we can assume she actually knew these kids were dead. The only people who knew that are sitting in jail.

BBM. Description of her own role is evolving. From the first media interview to the affidavit and to the latest interview. At first she knew everything about zombies, and later she only knew after it was too late to save anyone. According the last variant Lori and Chad never said they'd kill anyone, so she couldn't have known. MG should stick to one version, stop talking to the media, but most of all, tell the truth. We already know that the defense will give her a hard time and it will be even worse if she's inconsistent.

 

[JujuColumbo]

DBM

 

[Forever Young]

First time poster, long time reader. I've been thinking about the service dog and how Lori gave him back to the trainer. If I was on a jury, that alone would be strong evidence that JJ wasn't coming home. I hope the trainer is called to testify.
Also, my impression of Lori is that she is very similar to Susan Smith. Remember her? She killed her babies because she wanted to be with her child hating lover. Chad had older kids and I doubt he wanted an autistic child and a teenager getting in the way of his exciting new life with his bimbo bride. Just my thoughts for now!

I was thinking of Susan Smith myself just this afternoon. That's what it reminds of, too.

 

[CSIDreamer]

Thanks for that article.

It sounds like its just a matter of time now before more serious charges are filed against LV. I suspect LE has phone recordings or text messages where they have LV conspiring to have Charles killed. That would be enough to warrant the charges.

"Arizona police are looking to submit new charges, as early as December, against Lori Vallow Daybell in connection to the death of her estranged husband Charles Vallow."

"Sgt. Jason A. McClimans with the Chandler Police Department confirmed to 2News on Thursday that "if and when they go over to the Maricopa County Attorney's Office, one [charge] will be conspiracy to commit murder.""

"McClimans said the date when charges could be handed over to the Maricopa County Attorney's Office is flexible. "We are in no rush at this time," he said, adding that subpoenas are out in the case and investigators are sifting through more than 100,000 pieces of digital data."

Police to submit charges against Lori Vallow Daybell in estranged husband's death

Who would have the first shot at her jurisdiction wise? I wonder now if they're waiting on murder charges for Tylee and JJ to be filed. Jmo

 

[CSIDreamer]

First time poster, long time reader. I've been thinking about the service dog and how Lori gave him back to the trainer. If I was on a jury, that alone would be strong evidence that JJ wasn't coming home. I hope the trainer is called to testify.
Also, my impression of Lori is that she is very similar to Susan Smith. Remember her? She killed her babies because she wanted to be with her child hating lover. Chad had older kids and I doubt he wanted an autistic child and a teenager getting in the way of his exciting new life with his bimbo bride. Just my thoughts for now!

Hi there! Welcome aboard!

 

[Kimmer]

First time poster, long time reader. I've been thinking about the service dog and how Lori gave him back to the trainer. If I was on a jury, that alone would be strong evidence that JJ wasn't coming home. I hope the trainer is called to testify.
Also, my impression of Lori is that she is very similar to Susan Smith. Remember her? She killed her babies because she wanted to be with her child hating lover. Chad had older kids and I doubt he wanted an autistic child and a teenager getting in the way of his exciting new life with his bimbo bride. Just my thoughts for now!

Welcome to our loving and somewhat crazy family, if you need anything feel free to PM me and I will try and help. you should come join us at 10pm eastern on the Youtube channel tons of fun there.

 

[Kimmer]

Nope.

She might but it won't work she never reported her kids missing she left and flew to Hawaii and ran all over using the money Tylee was getting from her dad and JJs money from Charles, she may think she can get away with it but to me she is baked like a potato.

 

[Synergizer Bunny]

The horrific "overkill" body desecration of Tylee's body is really going to nail CD. Especially with an Idaho jury.

There is no way that type of burning and dismemberment could have happened on his property without his knowledge.

That, and his text to Tammy about the burning of limbs and debris and shooting a raccoon and burying it, that very morning. Yeah, I believe this enormous coincidence...NOT...

This is the reason that his lawyer was desperately trying to make it sound like a raccoon was really buried. They just didn't continue to dig for it.

JMO.

eta: Chad's lawyer also asked the FBI agent if there were ashes in the firepit and then asked if he saw any ashes amongst Kylee's remains. IMO, that was another attempt to imply that Kylee may have been burned elsewhere. I guess that the intent is to blame Alex for sneaking onto the property to bury both bodies.

 

[TheLoadedGoat]

Good point! In my mind there is no death penalty on the table currently, as murder charges haven't been laid yet. I'm not sure what they could offer her currently but I could see that once those charges are laid they could take death off the table and offer life instead. Very good point! Maybe if she agrees to cooperate in the other investigation. Interesting.

I guess I am not getting worked up over what happens with current charges or even with Charles' case because I feel there is no doubt murder charges will be brought and they will both be convicted. I also believe they may be charged with Tammy & Alex's deaths. I understand the jury will only see a fraction of what we see and know, but there is so much yet to be seen. We know that Melani P will be called and probably Zulema. I believe we have not heard about the digital evidence from Lori and Chad's devices because they are saving that for the murder charges. I'm am also against the death penalty because I believe living with what you have done is far more torture than just getting it over with. But, with the murders in Lori's wake, you cannot convince that she isn't a threat to society. But the plea deal situation is a process and a game that you have to play. The biggest hurdle to a plea is that Lori will never, ever concede any of it was her fault. I would not be surprised if she went for an Alford plea just to say she never plead guilty.

 

[Dorothy Jane]

The phone called MG recorded of lori and chad has changed some things for me, I am now 100% convinced that lori truly believed in all of this crazy zombie stuff, She was so passionate and was quoting her scriptures etc she sounded utterly convinced in her beliefs to me. I am however still not convinced that chad truly believes all that stuff, i get strong julie rowe snake oil vibes from chad

When I heard that conversation between MG and LV - It made me think of a Lightsaber battle between two characters in Star Wars... the way those two were flinging scripture back and forth at each other was really something!

 

[Dorothy Jane]

I guess I am not getting worked up over what happens with current charges or even with Charles' case because I feel there is no doubt murder charges will be brought and they will both be convicted. I also believe they may be charged with Tammy & Alex's deaths. I understand the jury will only see a fraction of what we see and know, but there is so much yet to be seen. We know that Melani P will be called and probably Zulema. I believe we have not heard about the digital evidence from Lori and Chad's devices because they are saving that for the murder charges. I'm am also against the death penalty because I believe living with what you have done is far more torture than just getting it over with. But, with the murders in Lori's wake, you cannot convince that she isn't a threat to society. But the plea deal situation is a process and a game that you have to play. The biggest hurdle to a plea is that Lori will never, ever concede any of it was her fault. I would not be surprised if she went for an Alford plea just to say she never plead guilty.

I agree - I was thinking this morning that we may never see her get to trial because she possibly wants to deny the world and knowledge of any of her phone texts or calls or what she texted on Tylee's phone or how she received the federal monetary benefits of each child etc etc. I just have this feeling that she is working up to something...

 

[dixiegirl1035]

I gave one example already earlier during her taped phone call and its mainly my opinion how I am interpreting her from watching all her interviews and I did include JMO.

Im ready to move on and drop it because enough has been said and I am thankful for her cooperation now as I mentioned.

Like others said, I will try to focus on the real two criminals unless more charges come down on someone else.

For those that are interested, a few hours ago, a Youtube analysis and (keywords) Deep Dive on the Melanie Gibb Phone Call to Lori & Chad Daybell has been uploaded that you and others may want to listen to.

 

[FLmom777]

In "normal" cases waiving a preliminary hearing is unusual because it gives defense counsel a "free" look at some of the prosecution's evidence and that is reason enough to require the state to go through the motions.

Snipped for focus. Defense gets all evidence either way.

 

[Love Never Fails]

For those that are interested, a few hours ago, a Youtube analysis and (keywords) Deep Dive on the Melanie Gibb Phone Call to Lori & Chad Daybell has been uploaded that you and others may want to listen to.

I haven’t watched it yet but I will.

I did note something else. During the hearing where Lori waived the preliminary, she used the word “correct” a lot in answering the judge, instead of yes or yes sir.

And in Melani Gibbs testimony, she also used the word “correct” in answering questions.

Strange to me they both speak alike.

 

[sunflowerchick]

Who would have the first shot at her jurisdiction wise? I wonder now if they're waiting on murder charges for Tylee and JJ to be filed. Jmo

Since she is already in custody in ID, she will face charges there first.

 

[887sMtreme]

<snipped for focus>
None of the Cox family has chimed in that they talk to Lori daily and she is beside herself with grief. Closing arguments should include this question, "If the death penalty was not for Lori Daybell, who is it for?" JMO

If Lori's belief system can be taken at face value, she believed that because Tylee and JJ were "zombies," killing them released their true spirits from some sort of limbo, allowing them to take their place in whatever paradise she envisioned, be it Celestial Kingdom or something else (Lololand?) she'd dreamed up. Her reaction to Charles' death may have been motivated by the same thing; i.e., "Wheeee, he's happy now!" None of which exonerates her, of course. It may, however, explain a bit of her bizarre behavior.

 

[Diddian]

RICO requires proof an "enterprise" organized to commit any of a list of federal and state crimes. It famously was used to convict the leaders of Mafia families who otherwise kept their hands clean and delegated the dirty work to underlings. In this case I believe there would be obstacles to proving the elements of a RICO crime. For one thing, it would be difficult to prove the existence of a an organized enterprise committed to the purpose of racketeering. The Supreme Court has determined that an "association-in-fact-enterprise" for the purpose of RICO must have at least three structural features: 1) A purpose; 2) relationships among those associated with the enterprise and, 3) longevity sufficient to permit the associates to pursue the enterprise's criminal purpose. I can see how an argument could be made here and it would certainly be a great law school exam question. However, it looks to me like the evidence known so far would be a bit thin to support a RICO enterprise extending beyond Chad and Lori. Moreover, with respect to Lori and Chad there would be no advantage to making a RICO claim as there is plenty of evidence of conspiracy that ties them to the acts in question without needing to rely on an "enterprise" theory (IMHO).

Thank you so much for your informative response.

Given some of the disastrous events and outcomes involving cults in this country and their encounters with LE in the past few decades (Koresh in Waco, the Baghwan and his Sheela in Oregon), I would love to see this question explored on law school exams and if, as you have indicated, the student determined this case or others like it lack the sufficient elements for RICO, I'd like to ask for speculation about what further acts or elements might drive the case into RICO territory and what benefits might be derived.