Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 16, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *Arrests* #51

[dixiegirl1035]

I still think she was coached...might have been "modified with LE" so it didn't sound like coaching...

BUT why in heavens name would she say "Al, your brother"... qualifying Al's identity to Lori herself??? No way.

I think that part of that coaching was to know when Lori started to realize she might be taping or was coached, Melanie would have been instructed to back off.... and ..... voila.... scriptures!!!

This was probably a default in all sorts of difficult discussions or communications with these folks.

Yep, I was "oh no" when that was said also. Still would like a complete transcript with the timing of the "writing/scribbles" sound and the "fast underlining/fast scribbles" sounds. But probably cannot do such due to 10% copyright rules that would pull from a site which has a transcript? or even if those sites with the transcript are allowed here at WS?

 

[Love Never Fails]

I’m not sure if they are able to obtain what was there originally. But there will be a new spot temporarily and hopefully it can be filled.

I know some people have mentioned that it seems like a false sense of comfort. To these families and to the community here, we are all looking for comfort or a way to say we love/care about you. Everyone is grieving and processing in their own way and although temporary it provides some calm and comfort. So at this moment in time this is the best we can do.

I know that out at the original spot there were a couple things mentioning Tammy and Charles. These two are just as important and mattered too and it was nice to see others cared about them too.

All jmo moo

You have such a kind heart and it shows. Many of us, around the world, care and we realize people in Rexburg care also.

Nate Eaton said the same thing, and that there was a sign across from the courthouse (I think) that said “JJ and Tylee in our hearts forever”. Have you seen that? I feel that will also come for Charles and Tammy in time.

 

[155etta]

Thank you for taking the time to think through and write this. A repeat of the Casey Anthony trial is one of my big fears about this case* - it only takes one juror who falls for the chaos/confusion introduced by a defense attorney who takes the case down a few irrelevant or vastly speculative side alleys to prevent a conviction and if the rest are not solid in their own abilities to resist, a whole jury can get taken in and actually produce an acquittal. (*ETA - by "case" I am thinking not only of those charges currently in process, but also those under investigation and likely to be placed.)

And nothing draws a defense attorney willing to do that like a high profile case with a spectacular sideshow as this case might offer with the odd beliefs and somewhat secret fringe groups.

Some here have opined that this, more than most, should be a death penalty case; however, I have concerns about that. I think that sometimes, even those jurors who say in advance that they could impose a death penalty if warranted actually raise the standard of proof required of the prosecution when the death penalty is involved - and particularly if the defendant can be made to appear vulnerable or appealing in some way (such as attractive female, young, confused). In such a case, jurors may project certain characteristics upon the defendant and/or apply a standard of judgment which essentially becomes not "beyond a reasonable doubt," but "beyond any doubt, whether reasonable, unreasonable, or completely farfetched but in-some-imagined-world remotely possible."

It seems that seeking a death penalty places a greater burden upon jurors as each of those jurors recognizes the personal role he or she will play in the killing of a human being, which for the vast majority of us is abhorrent, except in the most certain and heinous of cases. Even where the conviction is separate from the sentencing, when the death penalty looms, I think this is so.

I personally think it is a good thing that each considers his or her own conscience when implementing this unique power of the state as a collective jury - those are EXACTLY the instruments needed to keep the power of the state reined in to reasonable and fair limits; however, in the quiet and order of a courtroom, it is easy for individuals to forget that the collective jury is not only judge of the defendant, it is also the last in line as protector of the rest of the community - most of them innocent people (and some of them vulnerable innocent people) living their lives outside that quiet order of the courtroom and dependent upon the laws as protection where chaos and disorder have wider range. So, these two roles have to be given their proper weight, and the standard of reasonable doubt is the tool for doing so.

When and if you have time, I would be very interested in reading your - and others - thoughts on this.

Now I'm really wondering how the DP would go over here in Rexburg. I'm not religious, but can any local Mormons chime in? Is the ultimate judgement up to G*d? Would a local jury be more comfortable handing down a LWOP sentence? Really interesting to think about. MOO.

 

[mommacass]

Yep, I was "oh no" when that was said also. Still would like a complete transcript with the timing of the "writing/scribbles" sound and the "fast underlining/fast scribbles" sounds. But probably cannot do such due to 10% copyright rules that would pull from a site which has a transcript? or even if those sites with the transcript are allowed here at WS?

Did anyone else screen shot snapping? I thought I heard that distinct sound of taking a screen shot more than once.

 

[RickshawFan]

There's an item that keeps bugging me about this whole "bonfire in the backyard" scenario to conceal Tylee's remains. It takes a lot of wood to do this. CD doesn't have much vegetation in the backyard. Where is all this wood coming from?

-If he's using brush that he cut, it would have smoked like crazy.
-They would have needed logs, IMO. Seasoned logs.
-If they're bringing wood in or hauling it from the barn, they'd need the pickup or some other obvious method. With a wheelbarrow, they'd be going all morning.
-It's possible they did a run for "camp wood", which could account for the one ping-trip where AlC left the county and came right back.

In the evidence category, it's possible LE can retrieve electronic records of transactions at the gas station(s) or convenience stores. This happened in the Arias case, years after the fact.
They'd likely have access to both AlC's credit card records and the gas station records.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

Just a few thoughts on new information that came out of CD's prelim.

(I've made a transcript of the officer's bodycam footage and posted it in the media thread here.)

On the day police went to do the welfare check (Nov 26th) LVD mentioned moving several times, despite confirming that Tylee goes to BYU-I and lives with her -

"and so I was going to move back to Arizona"
"But I’m gonna go back to Arizona so I can put him back into special needs school, he couldn’t do his school here..."
"My brother and his friend, probably, they’re moving"
"well the reason I’m moving is cos the brother that was going to kill me..."
"well that’s why I’m moving back. I’m moving and I’m not going to be in a place, I’m going to live with my friend Melanie, don’t tell..."

I think she hasn't quite got her story straight in her own mind before they visit about whether to mention that she is moving (she starts out saying "I was going to move"), and then when she obviously decides to tell them she's moving, the reason for the move - if it's for JJ's schooling, or because her brother is trying to kill her.

She's also not sure if AdC is still trying to kill her or if that was only while CV was alive, and avoids ever mentioning AdC by name -

"I’ve had to move around a lot, one of my brothers is trying to kill me, not the brother that lives here obviously, he’s kind of my protector [laugh] my other brother was in with my husband who was trying to kill me for my $2million life insurance policy."
"the reason I’m moving is cos the brother that was going to kill me that we found emails and texts with my ex-husb, my husband at the time, came showing up here, so he found out where I live..."
"after my husband passed I found emails and texts between them that they were planning all this stuff, to get rid of me."

Also I noticed she refers to finding texts between AdC and CV, after CV's death. That suggests to me she managed to keep CV's phone.

The amount of laughter during the conversation does not sound like someone in fear for her life. Officers really should have training in matching body language with what is being reported to them, imo. And what the heck - the biggest red flag is her saying that CV changed his beneficiary, acrimoniously, and died!! Didn't they think, oh, so why didn't he want his wife on the policy? I get that they went back with search warrants so they didn't effectively drop the ball, but I don't think they left the house thinking anything was hinky. They were apologizing for bothering her, they knew she had been under surveillance for a jeep connected with a shooting and that JJ had not been seen in that month, they knew all of KW's concerns, and that Det Hermosillo had passed on his suspicions about CD and that LVD was also not admitting CD was anyone other than her brother's friend!

This doesn't sit right with me either - just for the fact that she is using it in a persuasive way -

..."she wanted us to adopt him. Which we did. We’ve loved him and taken care"..



---

In the phone call recorded by MG she only asks about JJ.

What's interesting, from a prosecution standpoint, is that LVD says on the call "I'm sorry that you don't want me to protect my children but I would never ask you to not protect your children." I'm not sure why MG doesn't pick up this cue and ask if Tylee is also 'missing'. She has said she never really believed the BYU story, and that she was accusing LVD and CD of murder, in her round-about way, in this call:-

From Dateline - MG: “It was a very unnerving phone call. Now I was confronting them that they were potential killers.”

It shows anyway, IMO, that LVD can't say she thought one thing about Tylee (being older and more independent) and another about JJ - she's put them together in this sentence.

MOO

From your post

""the reason I’m moving is cos the brother that was going to kill me that we found emails and texts with my ex-husb, my husband at the time, came showing up here, so he found out where I live...""

The brother (AdC) came showing up in Rexburg? I don't recall that... I guess I need to revisit the timeline. Have we discussed that here?

Or is this typical Lori confounding and conflating the visit that AC and sidekick had a trip to visit BB's parent's house etc.

Agree with others that this is going to need a great experienced prosecutor to overcome this Baez type of trial that may be in the future, having all the "squirrels" put forth by the defense.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

Did anyone else screen shot snapping? I thought I heard that distinct sound of taking a screen shot more than once.

I think I did hear a noise and wondered what it was. iirc, it did sound like such now that you mention it. But why would that happen as this was a phone call, not a skype or FB messenger from my understanding as they said a call from her cell phone and I had assumed straight call vs. others as he said "let me put you on speaker".

Again, would love if there was a document to all the timings of these noises in a transcript. Or... are just a few of us hearing things that aren't there?

 

[nyvictoria]

Lori is a narcissists in my opinion, and what better way is there to be ok with your horrible deeds than to actually believe a God thinks you are good! She might think she is sincere, but she uses religion as shield! It blocks all the bad that she does! Moo

Reminds me of Warren Jeffs, who used his religion to justify the rape of children.

 

[Sleeplessinaz]

Now I'm really wondering how the DP would go over here in Rexburg. I'm not religious, but can any local Mormons chime in? Is the ultimate judgement up to G*d? Would a local jury be more comfortable handing down a LWOP sentence? Really interesting to think about. MOO.

I don't live in Idaho but I can tell you that the LDS religion is not against the death penalty in proper situations. In my opinion, if any jurors are LDS church members, I don't think it would be all that relevant in determining DP or not. It would be a matter of deciding if during the trial, the evidence fits the criteria for that punishment. It's also my opinion, (and I have no legal education) that the treatment of Tylee's body, the fact that they were children (and LVD's children no less) and sheer number of deaths surrounding this case, are going to be the greatest influencers in determining DP over LWOP.
Btw, isn't it the judge who determines the sentence?

 

[OGDiva]

I guess this is a question and will admit, maybe it's a rant. WHY do these people talk as though they are living in Bible/ Book of Mormon times? Is it to set themselves apart from us common folks or a superiority thing? Is there something about the verbiage along with the monotone way of speaking? In my opinion, it is really strange and irritating. Is there something I am missing?

 

[Countem]

I used to think the text to Tammy about shooting a raccoon and so on was partly to establish an excuse for the sound of a gunshot used to kill Tylee. Now that we know her condition at burial, this seems unlikely, begging the question of why he felt the need to report shooting a raccoon. The larger question is where was Tylee dismembered? There is no word about evidence in the barn — and there would be plenty.

remains one of my biggest mysteries as well.... where and who did the horrifying things to Tylee's body?? I just don't see our creeps being this skilled....

Everything below is MOO.

I suspect that the raccoon text was sent in order to explain the freshly disturbed earth in the pet cemetery rather than a gunshot. It seems more likely that Tylee and JJ were killed in a manner that minimized blood evidence, such as poisoning or strangulation, as opposed to being shot.

If Tylee were dismembered prior to the bonfire, there may not necessarily be as much evidence as you would think. Chad and/or Alex may have been aware that, if a body sits for a certain period of time before dismemberment, blood coagulates, which could lead to an almost bloodless dismemberment scene. (See the recent case of Fahim Saleh.) If Tylee were dismembered prior to the bonfire, I suspect that it was on Chad’s property.

Whether they did or did not dismember Tylee’s body prior to the bonfire, I believe that Chad and Alex are fully capable of pulling off what happened to Tylee. Sadly, you don’t have to be the sharpest tool in the shed to figure out an effective way to dispose of a body, especially if you are in a calm state-of-mind. Clearly, it wasn’t as effective of a method as they had originally hoped, since they treated JJ’s body differently.

 

[mickey2942]

The neighbor of CD in Rexburg, ID, Matthew Price, who has been extremely helpful in helping to solve this crime, by providing information to the police about bonfires at CD's house.

He has placed a large flagpole in his yard with a flag that has a picture of Tylee and JJ. I cannot unfortunately post the beautiful picture, it is from a social media page.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

Reminds me of Warren Jeffs, who used his religion to justify the rape of children.

I'm still waiting for my Comcast on demand to queue up for viewing the new Dateline NBC from Friday that so many here said was on point for this case and suggested to view, yet I missed the posts until after live airing. ( Angels Cult/Lou Castro did his "religious group" finances by getting insurance on his members, then all of a sudden... "accident" of that member with insurance and the group was flush with cash.)

 

[SleuthD-o-doubleg]

You have such a kind heart and it shows. Many of us, around the world, care and we realize people in Rexburg care also.

Nate Eaton said the same thing, and that there was a sign across from the courthouse (I think) that said “JJ and Tylee in our hearts forever”. Have you seen that? I feel that will also come for Charles and Tammy in time.

Thank you! I haven’t seen it in person since it’s at the Fremont County courthouse in Saint Anthony. We haven’t been by there yet.

 

[SleuthD-o-doubleg]

The neighbor of CD in Rexburg, ID, Matthew Price, who has been extremely helpful in helping to solve this crime, by providing information to the police about bonfires at CD's house.

He has placed a large flagpole in his yard with a flag that has a picture of Tylee and JJ. I cannot unfortunately post the beautiful picture, it is from a social media page.

If I drive that way in the next day or so I’ll snap a picture for you.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

Everything below is MOO.

I suspect that the raccoon text was sent in order to explain the freshly disturbed earth in the pet cemetery rather than a gunshot. It seems more likely that Tylee and JJ were killed in a manner that minimized blood evidence, such as poisoning or strangulation, as opposed to being shot.

If Tylee were dismembered prior to the bonfire, there may not necessarily be as much evidence as you would think. Chad and/or Alex may have been aware that, if a body sits for a certain period of time before dismemberment, blood coagulates, which could lead to an almost bloodless dismemberment scene. (See the recent case of Fahim Saleh.) If Tylee were dismembered prior to the bonfire, I suspect that it was on Chad’s property.

Whether they did or did not dismember Tylee’s body prior to the bonfire, I believe that Chad and Alex are fully capable of pulling off what happened to Tylee. Sadly, you don’t have to be the sharpest tool in the shed to figure out an effective way to dispose of a body, especially if you are in a calm state-of-mind. Clearly, it wasn’t as effective of a method as they had originally hoped, since they treated JJ’s body differently.

Always double speak with Lori. Just like with Casey grrrrrr There was so much we knew that didn't come into the trial as to her postings/communications.

Exhibit #23 @~28:15 - with Special agent Daniels.. talks about hiding the body under the stones... a la the discussion of Lori and MG about the religious discussion of one of their LDS folks hiding under stone in the secretly taped call.

At Tylee's site, once the vertebrae and the pelvic piece was... @43:40.... "the pieces that were recovered they were pieces that appeared to be burned, some of them were pink still so there was a lot of tissue still involved and then again it was pieces dismembered, and then those pieces (e.d. not burned but cut after trying to burn...why would they be pink like raw meat? )

OOPS! need ETA on this as hit wrong button and posted during post... back in 5 minutes to update

 

[Diddian]

I don't live in Idaho but I can tell you that the LDS religion is not against the death penalty in proper situations. In my opinion, if any jurors are LDS church members, I don't think it would be all that relevant in determining DP or not. It would be a matter of deciding if during the trial, the evidence fits the criteria for that punishment. It's also my opinion, (and I have no legal education) that the treatment of Tylee's body, the fact that they were children (and LVD's children no less) and sheer number of deaths surrounding this case, are going to be the greatest influencers in determining DP over LWOP.
Btw, isn't it the judge who determines the sentence?

I agree that the treatment of Tylee's body (and IMO, the treatment of JJ's as well) and the fact that both were children (and LVD's own) would be aggravating circumstances. I'd add that in killing Tylee, they killed a witness to CV's murder to prevent further testimony in that investigation which remained open. It is also possible that in killing JJ, they killed a witness or potential witness to TR's murder (like Onsdag posted earlier today or late last night, I now suspect JJ's repeated words, "Get the hell out of here," on doorbell video may relate to what was shouted at him when he unexpectedly entered the location of TR's murder-in-progress). Furthermore, in killing AxC (if his MOD is ultimately changed as a result of further investigation), they killed a witness to CV's, TR's, and JJ's murders. Also, if charges are ultimately filed in CV's shooting, then the combined murders of CV, TR, and JJ amount to full family annihilation, so multiple killings by LVD.

About who determines the sentence:
No, in Idaho, if a the defendant's guilt in relation to a case of murder in the first degree with aggravating circumstances was determined by a jury verdict, that same jury will hear the special sentencing proceeding.

Section 19-2515 – Idaho State Legislature

Keep in mind that no Murder charges or Conspiracy to Commit/Murder charges have yet been filed.

 

[Kimmer]

There's an item that keeps bugging me about this whole "bonfire in the backyard" scenario to conceal Tylee's remains. It takes a lot of wood to do this. CD doesn't have much vegetation in the backyard. Where is all this wood coming from?

-If he's using brush that he cut, it would have smoked like crazy.
-They would have needed logs, IMO. Seasoned logs.
-If they're bringing wood in or hauling it from the barn, they'd need the pickup or some other obvious method. With a wheelbarrow, they'd be going all morning.
-It's possible they did a run for "camp wood", which could account for the one ping-trip where AlC left the county and came right back.

In the evidence category, it's possible LE can retrieve electronic records of transactions at the gas station(s) or convenience stores. This happened in the Arias case, years after the fact.
They'd likely have access to both AlC's credit card records and the gas station *** records.

if you look at the arial views from East Idaho news it looks like the house has a fireplace, I would not been surprised if they kept firewood in the barn so that it does not get wet with the weather, I would not be surprised to find out that CD could have started the fire the night before AC brought Tylee there and thats why AC left to go to the gas station to get more fuel to burn hotter and longer.

 

[mrjitty]

.
What's interesting, from a prosecution standpoint, is that LVD says on the call "I'm sorry that you don't want me to protect my children but I would never ask you to not protect your children." I'm not sure why MG doesn't pick up this cue and ask if Tylee is also 'missing'.

Thanks for this T

And yes I agree - the different times of death for the kids is a major issue for the defence.

 

[Campizi67]

I guess this is a question and will admit, maybe it's a rant. WHY do these people talk as though they are living in Bible/ Book of Mormon times? Is it to set themselves apart from us common folks or a superiority thing? Is there something about the verbiage along with the monotone way of speaking? In my opinion, it is really strange and irritating. Is there something I am missing?

Ive been thinking about this as well. I think that they had their little "community" and within this little "community" they had superiority. They were like celebrities or becoming like....
They had their podcasts, interviews, books, conferences... They were "moving on up" so to speak. I believe my theory may be proven by the fact they were even contemplating moving closer to eachother. When they were looking at property....

They enjoyed this lemon bulb and were a team. Until.....MG was told to lie to the police. It was then, imo, that MG saw this for what it was, there was no team....it was LV and CD period. MG began to realize that she was only an underling...most likely during the week or so it took to fess up to the police. It must have been during that week she phoned AxC and was told, "you don't want to know where JJ is..... perhaps she also began to realize the big times ahead were over. All that mattered or appeared to matter was CD and LV and their new life together.

Imo this is when MG bailed and became an informant. I don't think she EVER cared about the kids or their well being.

I say all this, getting back to your thoughts....I think they were taking advantage of their "religion" to become big time internet evangelists but LV and CDs love life and greed got in the way.