Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 16, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *Arrests* #54

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BBM
If the cases are joined LV and CD will have their own separate juries? That’s odd. I don’t follow how that works.

I followed Dellen Millard and Mark Smich and for the Tim Bosma and Laura Babcock cases I *think* I recall they were tried together. It’s been a minute. I know they each had separate attorneys defending them and they sat in the same courtroom but they had the same jury. Also they totally both pointed fingers at each other HOWEVER that was a Canadian trial. I assumed it would work the same in the US?

Also if I recall, Dellen opted not to testify (he was asked first and at a disadvantage?) and then Smich (his co-defendant) was asked second and he said “oh yes please” and hiked right up to the stand blaming Dellen. Long story short, Justice was served.

It’s been a minute so apologies if I got any of the details wrong. I know for sure some of you followed those 3 cases also. I guess I need to figure out how it works in the US. I don’t understand 2 separate juries and how that plays.
I also followed the Canadian joined Millard/Smich trial for the murder of Tim Bosma. The prosecution had a good case, but one hole was exactly how and where Bosma died. There was possible gunshot residue in the truck, and evidence one defendant had bought a gun, but no definite proof that Bosma had been killed by a gun, or where.

After prosecution rested their case, one defendant caved from the 'united we stand, divided we fall' strategy, and claimed he'd hadn't done or anticipated the shooting, it was the other guy. The other guy's lawyer aggressively cross-questioned him, asserting that he was the one who'd shot the victim.

Thereby, the two defendants together both confirmed that, yes indeed, the victim had been shot by one conspirator's gun in the truck. The prosecution said, thank you, that's what we contended all along, and both were convicted as equal conspirators.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hami...k-smich-dellen-millard-murder-trial-1.3576641
 
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In contrast, Lori doesn't want a separate trial. I can't decide if it's the result of having her hands tied by lack of her own resources or she is genuinely still emotionally attached to Chad. It's also possible that she wants to drag Chad down with her, the only revenge currently possible for turning his back on her. She's only looking at 10 years (plus 2 for misdemeanors) compared to Chad's 20. If convicted, I can see her finding husband #6 once she gets out. Her life wouldn't necessarily be over. Of course we're all hoping for further, more serious charges for both.

If Lori got her million dollars from Charles' life insurance, I wonder if we would be here today? Would she still murder her children? For one, she'd be able to afford a better attorney.
RSBM

Although her Attny says 'my client has no preference about a separate trial, is that really, truly her opinion, or is it her lawyer's strategy? Most defense lawyers want to be in charge of guiding the case, not deferring to their client's opinions. A stubborn client can cause a defendent's lawyer to withdraw from the case.

I'm not sure what the reasons for that response would be, it might be an attitude of invincibility - my client won't be convicted under any circumstances.

MOO
 
Do we have anything to paint AlC into a frame of guilt other than MG’s claim that he was hung-ho about the zombie theory? MG also said he told her “You don’t want to know” when she asked him where JJ was. I know it’s fashionable among us right now to let Melanie off the hook, but she could be said to have given Lori some cover, should she use it to blame it all on her dead brother.

nothing definitive that i can think of but the video of him going back and forth to the storage locker and him being on the property where they found the kids is circumstantial, plus hes "murdered" before and i mean that 100% sarcastically (as i think LV convince alex to do it)

IMO, the pings from Alex's phone are much more than circumstantial. LE used those ping to identify precisely where to dig, and the pings from the two dates correspond to the days right after each child went missing.

Police assert that they can, by means of these pings, prove that AC transported the remains of JJ from his home to CD's property, and that he was a co-conspirator to conceal the deaths (see the end of the probable cause document for LV)
https://www.scribd.com/document/467...p=xxc1xx&source=hp_affiliate&medium=affiliate

Since he was a co-conspirator in concealing the deaths, and was with the children and Lori during their last days, his being the actual killer is, IMO, strongly implied by the evidence.
 
RSBM

Although her Attny says 'my client has no preference about a separate trial, is that really, truly her opinion, or is it her lawyer's strategy? Most defense lawyers want to be in charge of guiding the case, not deferring to their client's opinions. A stubborn client can cause a defendent's lawyer to withdraw from the case.

I'm not sure what the reasons for that response would be, it might be an attitude of invincibility - my client won't be convicted under any circumstances.

MOO
Honestly, I think this is just a strategy. Even if she was intially against the idea the lawyer has a duty to let her know they dont have a strong legal case to oppose joinder and hence she could be agreeing to give the appearance of cooperation or to use it as leverage to get something she wants (like oh yeah judge, we agree with your decision but can Lori wear street clothes?). Judges tend to be a little more willing to allow these kinds of requests when clients appear to be working with the system instead of against it. That being said LVs thought processes still remain a mystery to me and maybe she just doesnt care because she assumes shes untouchable or maybe she wants to be able to see CD, because we all know if he was our husband being force apartt from that catch would be a real emotional burden
 

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It's good news for those of us who have a passion for real-life court cases/crimes, I'm just keeping my fingers crossed that they spread themselves to a Free-View channel as not everyone subscribes to Sky (FAR too expensive for a lot of folk) I'll just plod along watching it online :)

I'm *advertiser censored*-a-hoop that UK are getting Court TV. We have Sky (yes far too expensive). Dropped the Movie channels, never seem to have time anyway, but I've got Netflix that is in sons name to fall back on.

If Court TV fall into a pay per channel, like you I'll just watch online.
 
RSBM

Although her Attny says 'my client has no preference about a separate trial, is that really, truly her opinion, or is it her lawyer's strategy? Most defense lawyers want to be in charge of guiding the case, not deferring to their client's opinions. A stubborn client can cause a defendent's lawyer to withdraw from the case.

I'm not sure what the reasons for that response would be, it might be an attitude of invincibility - my client won't be convicted under any circumstances.

MOO
Question- I'm assuming the judge will join the cases and deny JP's objection to the motion.

However, at that point can he go back and cite a different reason for reconsideration such as varying defenses should CD decide to flip on LV or has that opportunity passed?

Consider this possibility - CD could turn state's evidence at any time.

I think Chad is stuck with the conspiracy to conceal and destroy evidence, but does he want to go down for conspiracy to commit murder? He could negotiate at least a concurrent sentence for turning state's evidence.

I think the real hard problem in this case might be proving that Lori Vallow planned and/or participated in the murders. CD could shed a whole lot of light on that. If he knows something and doesn't want to go down for something he did not participate in, he better spill it.

Yes, Lori wants to be with him so she can keep him in his place, make him remember "how much we love each other", keep his mouth shut. Chad's attorney knows that that spell needs to be broken.

This assumes that CD knows that there is absolutely no evidence tying him to the actual murders, i. e. he really didn't do that part.

LV's and AC's forensic evidence will be so tightly enmeshed that Lori's defense could counter that since they both lived in the apartment and JJ shared Lori's room, of course her stuff will be on that duct tape. Reasonable doubt.

We need an eye-witness to what happened on the days of the burials, what Alex said, was Lori there, what did she say, how did she act.....

In my head, this was an insurance money scam from day one involving both Lori and Alex. I think she was supposed to pay off Alex and he was going to change his name and go to South America. Probably start a business running girls. But the payout wasn't that great and Lori didn't want to share after already having to share with Chad. How was she going to manage that? The holier than thou business was just an act to cover for the scam.

And somebody who was selling life insurance was able to obtain information on big policy payouts before the ruse even started, or find out how much a person carried by pretending to sell policies.

Yes, they will join the trials, to put more pressure on CD to roll since he is facing the longest sentence, and they were her kids, her responsibility, she had to have known. Possible scenario and IMO.
 
As another poster stated earlier, I don't think MG saying that JJ wasn't with her without adding that she had him initially would have made much difference in the case. In either case the attention was turned back to Lori.

The police knew about Lori's death threats to Charles and Lori's strange beliefs about being a deity and did nothing. What makes you think MG could change that? It's not a crime to have weird beliefs.
MG learned that BB was shot at two weeks after it happened. How did she have any proof as to who did it?
She went with Lori for a mental evaluation. According to Lori, she passed. What should have MG done about it?

They haven't killed anyone up to that point. Again, Charles (and others) went to police about the threats, but the police weren't interested.

That is not a valid comparison. MG was part of the cult, but wasn't in on the murders because she wasn't even part of the family. She would not have profited from the deaths, so she didn't have to know about the plot. Chad was the instigator anyway, IMO.

I doubt the defense would talk about CV's death in the children's trial when it would only implicate their client in more crimes. MG was a witness there as well, not an accomplice.

I think MG is an excellent witness. She went to police volutarily and she can provide a lot of insight into the cult, as well as Chad and Lori's dynamic. We need to keep in mind though that all the details might not be brought up in court. Her incriminating information that can be corroborated with other evidence will no doubt be used. I think Nate Eaton mentioned that more recordings were made.
Personally, I don't believe a single thing that Melani says. She is, IMO, in the murders up to her very eyeballs.
 
I wonder who will bring up zombies in the trial. They weren't mentioned by the prosecution in Chad's preliminary hearing. Will his doctrine documents be used as evidence against them?

A few zombies escaped. After the attack on him, BB feared for his life. He expected another attempt by Alex. Kay was also declared a zombie. She was probably too far away to be in danger.

I'm surprised that Lori and Chad didn't try to eliminate MG after learning that she turned against them, especially after Alex's death.
IMO, I think that is exactly why MG decided to tell all to LE. She was afraid that she too would die either by "natural causes" or just disappear and be buried somewhere.
 
Personally, I don't believe a single thing that Melani says. She is, IMO, in the murders up to her very eyeballs.
Which Melani(e) are you talking about? There's Melani BP (Lori's niece) and Melanie G (Lori's friend). While MG is talking, MBP is not. I don't believe that either was in on the conspiracy to murder, but one (IMO) suspected that the kids were dead sooner than the other. MG visited Lori for a weekend in September, saw JJ, and was later told by Lori that he was with Kay. MBP went to Hawaii with Lori in October and lived nextdoor to her in November, yet she never saw the kids, despite saying that they were still around.
 
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IMO, I think that is exactly why MG decided to tell all to LE. She was afraid that she too would die either by "natural causes" or just disappear and be buried somewhere.
What about MBP? Why was she not afraid to be next after her uncle (and friend) Alex suddenly died? She knows more than MG, IMO.
 
Consider this possibility - CD could turn state's evidence at any time.

I think Chad is stuck with the conspiracy to conceal and destroy evidence, but does he want to go down for conspiracy to commit murder? He could negotiate at least a concurrent sentence for turning state's evidence.

I think the real hard problem in this case might be proving that Lori Vallow planned and/or participated in the murders. CD could shed a whole lot of light on that. If he knows something and doesn't want to go down for something he did not participate in, he better spill it.

Yes, Lori wants to be with him so she can keep him in his place, make him remember "how much we love each other", keep his mouth shut. Chad's attorney knows that that spell needs to be broken.

This assumes that CD knows that there is absolutely no evidence tying him to the actual murders, i. e. he really didn't do that part.

LV's and AC's forensic evidence will be so tightly enmeshed that Lori's defense could counter that since they both lived in the apartment and JJ shared Lori's room, of course her stuff will be on that duct tape. Reasonable doubt.

We need an eye-witness to what happened on the days of the burials, what Alex said, was Lori there, what did she say, how did she act.....

In my head, this was an insurance money scam from day one involving both Lori and Alex. I think she was supposed to pay off Alex and he was going to change his name and go to South America. Probably start a business running girls. But the payout wasn't that great and Lori didn't want to share after already having to share with Chad. How was she going to manage that? The holier than thou business was just an act to cover for the scam.

And somebody who was selling life insurance was able to obtain information on big policy payouts before the ruse even started, or find out how much a person carried by pretending to sell policies.

Yes, they will join the trials, to put more pressure on CD to roll since he is facing the longest sentence, and they were her kids, her responsibility, she had to have known. Possible scenario and IMO.

How did AC die when CD and LVD were in Hawaii? His death, if not natural, points to at least one more conspirator. It also suggests that he was not the only one capable of killing. Who actually shot at TD and at BB? Was that AC too? Wonder if there is any ballistic evidence in this case. This case has too many moving parts, IMO.
 
In my head, this was an insurance money scam from day one involving both Lori and Alex. I think she was supposed to pay off Alex and he was going to change his name and go to South America. Probably start a business running girls. But the payout wasn't that great and Lori didn't want to share after already having to share with Chad. How was she going to manage that? The holier than thou business was just an act to cover for the scam.
BBM. What about Chad increasing Tammy's life insurance not long before her death and then collecting? That wasn't Lori and Alex's work.

IMO Chad can't tell the truth because he would only incriminate himself. With the current charges he can pretend that he had nothing to do with the children's burial. I don't think it will work though.
 
How did AC die when CD and LVD were in Hawaii? His death, if not natural, points to at least one more conspirator. It also suggests that he was not the only one capable of killing. Who actually shot at TD and at BB? Was that AC too? Wonder if there is any ballistic evidence in this case. This case has too many moving parts, IMO.
The guns are a good point. In his account to police of the death of CV, he says he has a .45 caliber pistol.

Both BB and TD describe being shot at by a 'paintball gun'. But then BB realized the bullets were real, and it must have had a silencer. In TD's case the gun seems to have not gone off. I have no idea what a paintball gun looks like, afaik it looks like a real gun. Police searched the storage locker, perhaps they found gun evidence there.

All of the above is from the excellent Timeline thread: ID - Joshua Vallow & Tylee Ryan, Rexburg, Sept 2019 TIMELINE ONLY - *NO DISCUSSION*

Note the last 5 months of AC's life

July 11: AC kills CV
August: quits his job and moves to Rexberg
September 9: Presumed death of Tylee
Sept 24: Presumed death of JJ
Oct 2: BB shot at
Oct 9: TD encounter with masked man with gun
Nov 26: police show up in Rexberg
Nov 29: AC marries ZP in Vegas, changes name and moves to Gilbert, AZ
Early Dec: MBP's new husband (married in Vegas with Alex as witness) becomes concerned because of rumours around murders, talks to police
Dec 6: MG goes to police
Dec 11: TD's body exhumed
Dec 12: AC dies.

Seems like he might have had a lot of stress, especially after police showed up at the townhouse Nov 26.
 
The guns are a good point. In his account to police of the death of CV, he says he has a .45 caliber pistol.

Both BB and TD describe being shot at by a 'paintball gun'. But then BB realized the bullets were real, and it must have had a silencer. In TD's case the gun seems to have not gone off. I have no idea what a paintball gun looks like, afaik it looks like a real gun. Police searched the storage locker, perhaps they found gun evidence there.
BBM. According to EIN, Alex was seen on a surveillance video bringing gun cases (plural) into the storage, so he likely had more than one gun.

Between Oct. 6 and Oct. 26, a man, presumably Cox, visits the storage unit alone five times. Cameras show him dropping off a variety of items, including gun cases, and then, on Oct. 28, two men are seen moving bikes into the unit.

Lori Daybell abandoned a storage unit in Rexburg full of children's items | East Idaho News
 
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