Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 16, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *Arrests* #54

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I am fascinated by the relationship between CD and LVD. What did they have in common? Why would LVD consider CD after CV? Did LVD think CD was wealthier than CV? And she got to Idaho, with nothing but two kids, and their Social Security checks. Realizing that CD was it.

What did they talk about? Do they quote scriptures to each other? Obviously, they don't talk about LVD's kids. Has the infatuation worn off, now that they are in separate jails?

What a strange couple. A grave digger and a gold digger.

what LVD gets:
insurance $, to be a princess, new leggings, freedom from her Mommy role

what CD gets:
insurance $
woman who thinks (or acts as if she thinks) that he walks on water
prance around Hawaii with woman above

I am not sure how much of LVD/CD was actualy lust as MG said,
and how much was a mutual admiration society, where together
they really thought they were just so special. I would believe either
one. Feeling special and getting attention is why many people
have affairs- but while a lot of people may find their children tiresome
and a lot of people may find their spouses to be boring and predictable
a lot of people do not kill them.
That is where this really goes off the rails-
That and the involvement of third parties all the while professing to be
doing God's will. Crusades anyone?
 
Initially, the Daybell kids supported their father since it was probably the natural thing to do, that is, until the bodies were found. They did nothing to deserve getting caught up in this mess. In a small town, they must feel huge embarrassment and I don't blame them one bit for laying low. BTW, it speaks volumes that they were not at their father's hearings.

I used to think of CD as nothing but a con man but now I think he's a religious whack job, believing in weird stuff, speaking at preparation gatherings and trying to make a living by selling his books. I hadn't seen or heard of anything that would lead me to believe he was bad or abusive to his wife or kids. It's been said that he wasn't perfect as a husband but despite that, he had always been fairly harmless.

Then the manipulative, lying, abusive, evil and gold-digging LV came into the picture along with her clan. Why he fell for her is anyone's guess but maybe he got caught up in a mid-life crisis with the wrong person and things went real, real bad from there. Whatever it was, sadly for TD and her kids, things went down in a ball of flames with CD destroying both himself and his family. CD made a dumb move and he will pay the price. Unfortunately, his kids will also pay the price.
I've wondered a lot about how psychologically dependent CD was on his wife for common sense, stability and having a normal life. It seems possibly she did all the hard work of the publishing business, she got a good job at a library, she possibly did all the work of raising the kids and maintaining the home. Possibly propped him up, so he was an imposter, just acting his part to please her.

The whole story of what happened once he met LV seems like a plot from a novel or a TV show. I think it's possible he turned to his darkest fantasies and imagination to create his life with LV, the opposite of the kind of ordinary, middle class life that Tammy had created for him.

I am interested in human psychology, but it's not everyone's thing.
 
I am fascinated by the relationship between CD and LVD. What did they have in common? Why would LVD consider CD after CV? Did LVD think CD was wealthier than CV? And she got to Idaho, with nothing but two kids, and their Social Security checks. Realizing that CD was it.

What did they talk about? Do they quote scriptures to each other? Obviously, they don't talk about LVD's kids. Has the infatuation worn off, now that they are in separate jails?

What a strange couple. A grave digger and a gold digger.
BBM. Lori's friend from Hawaii AR described it on Dateline as Lori having "this tremendous longing to be with a partner that was at her same level of spiritual understanding".

AR spoke of the change in Lori's demeanor from 2017 to early 2019. Lori became more and more religious. She turned from happy to “very disorganized,” and “a little manic”.

Lori told AR upon her early 2019 visit to Hawaii about her new friends from PAP and their doctrine. I wonder if she meant just Chad and MG or other people from PAP as well. AR's observation:

“The Lori that I knew compared to the Lori that I saw and observed after she connected with Chad and this group is night and day.”

'Divergent' Daybell beliefs detailed in new interviews

ETA: In August AR also gave an interview on a podcast dedicated to this case.
 
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I am fascinated by the relationship between CD and LVD. What did they have in common? Why would LVD consider CD after CV? Did LVD think CD was wealthier than CV? And she got to Idaho, with nothing but two kids, and their Social Security checks. Realizing that CD was it.

What did they talk about? Do they quote scriptures to each other? Obviously, they don't talk about LVD's kids. Has the infatuation worn off, now that they are in separate jails?

What a strange couple. A grave digger and a gold digger.
I think one major element of their relationship is that neither one put any restraints on the other.

It seems likely to me, that all their lives they'd heard "That's a crazy idea, don't do it", "Don't be ridiculous", "I don't believe you".

Instead they likely encouraged each other: 'That's a great idea', 'We'll get away with it', 'you're right, we deserve it', 'You should do that', 'I completely believe you'.
 
The whole story of what happened once he met LV seems like a plot from a novel or a TV show. I think it's possible he turned to his darkest fantasies and imagination to create his life with LV, the opposite of the kind of ordinary, middle class life that Tammy had created for him.
I also pay attention to his behavior before her met Lori, like predicting his wife's early death years earlier and often discussing it with his business partner and friend JR who had been having the same vision for even longer. When at a certain point a prediction of Tammy's accidental death didn't come true, their conclusion was that her time on Earth had been extended. And there was (allegedly) a third woman whose husband chased Chad away. IMO Chad had been on a wrong path for quite a while before meeting his match in Lori. As much as I'd like to believe that he had been devoted to Tammy until Lori led him astray, it doesn't look that way. Of course he wouldn't get locked up for just being a bad husband. His dark fantasies go way back. For that reason I don't think he's sorry for what he had done.
 
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Charles Vallow had a fairly good idea of what was happening - his big mistake was in not telling Lori that she wouldn't be getting his insurance money. So I wonder if Tammy was starting to realize the way things might be heading? She apparently "wasn't herself" in the 2 weeks before she died. I suppose if she had confided in someone we would have heard by now?
 
BBM. Lori's friend from Hawaii AR described it on Dateline as Lori having "this tremendous longing to be with a partner that was at her same level of spiritual understanding".

AR spoke of the change in Lori's demeanor from 2017 to early 2019. Lori became more and more religious. She turned from happy to “very disorganized,” and “a little manic”.

Lori told AR upon her early 2019 visit to Hawaii about her new friends from PAP and their doctrine. I wonder if she meant just Chad and MG or other people from PAP as well. AR's observation:

“The Lori that I knew compared to the Lori that I saw and observed after she connected with Chad and this group is night and day.”

'Divergent' Daybell beliefs detailed in new interviews

ETA: In August AR also gave an interview on a podcast dedicated to this case.
To me she seems like a complete dangerous narcissist.....her own daughter was too much bother might as well murder her. And here comes CD telling her she is a God, music to a narcissist’s ears.....her husband didn’t realize she was a God and just thought she was nuts, so who is she going to prefer? Now for CD, she looks kinda like Barbie....long blonde hair, beautiful, sexy, young,looking. His sane wife doesn’t have that vibe, TD looked more matronly and maternal.....so Chad goes for sex, and LV goes for ego, and they both go after the insurance money. Sex, ego and money....
 
Charles Vallow had a fairly good idea of what was happening - his big mistake was in not telling Lori that she wouldn't be getting his insurance money. So I wonder if Tammy was starting to realize the way things might be heading? She apparently "wasn't herself" in the 2 weeks before she died. I suppose if she had confided in someone we would have heard by now?

I have wondered if she (TD) kept a journal, many LDS women do...
 
As we are currently just thinking out loud :) Few days ago by chance I've turned on TV (History channel), and they have the show about Ancient aliens. The episode was about belief that Hawaii is the main PORTAL for Gods(Aliens?) who travel to and from Earth to other time and space. The words "Hawaii", "Portal" and "Gods" triggered an unsurprising (for those who follow LV/CD case) thought process in my head :p
Wouldn't surprise me if those two wackos changed Idaho for Hawaii, because they considered themselves worthy of a nicer portal (you know, just the scenery and weather better for LV goddess, Rexburg was not her kind of place) :D:D:D
There are indeed (other) people there who guard that portal and wait for gods to go through :D

ETA: 3 min clip on History channel can be easily found by typing in youtube
Ancient Aliens: STAR PORTAL DISCOVERED IN HAWAII (Season 14)
 
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As we are currently just thinking out loud :) Few days ago by chance I've turned on TV (History channel), and they have the show about Ancient aliens. So the episode was about belief that Hawaii is the main PORTAL for Gods(Aliens?) who travel to and from Earth to other time and space. The words "Hawaii", "Portal" and "Gods" triggered an unsurprising (for those who follow LV/CD case) thought process in my head :p
Wouldn't surprise me if those two wackos changed Idaho for Hawaii, because they considered themselves worthy of a nicer portal (you know, just the scenery and weather better for LV goddess, Rexburg was not her kind of place) :D:D:D
There are indeed (other) people there who guard that portal and wait for gods to go through :D
In 2019 alone, Lori travelled to Hawaii 6-7 times. According to her friend AR (recent podcast interview), she was there 3-4 times in February/March (including with Tylee and MG). Then she took her niece MBP with her in October (source MG). Finally she and Chad went there twice and stayed the second time.
 
In 2019 alone, Lori travelled to Hawaii 6-7 times. According to her friend AR (recent podcast interview), she was there 3-4 times in February/March (including with Tylee and MG). Then she took her niece MBP with her in October (source MG). Finally she and Chad went there twice and stayed the second time.

Rampant Speculation Warning: It would not surprise me to learn that Charles and Lori had hidden assets stashed somewhere in Hawaii, and she went back periodically to tap into them. MOO to YOO TOO :-)
 
Here's the exact quote as reported by Justin Lum on 29 February 2020:

Identify locations in northeast Arizona for white camps

Now the real northeast corner of Arizona belongs to the Navajo Nation, so Chad could only be referring to the so-called "Arizona Strip:"

Arizona Strip - Wikipedia

The Wikipedia article downplays the influence of FLDS in the area; other authors have other opinions. I have encountered no TOS-compliant evidence of a connection between Chad and any of the several FLDS variants, but it wouldn't surprise me. I think Chad's theology would find more sympathy in Colorado City and Fredonia than, say, Provo UT. MOO, JMO, IMHO and all the other O's :)

I also pay attention to his behavior before her met Lori, like predicting his wife's early death years earlier and often discussing it with his business partner and friend JR who had been having the same vision for even longer. When at a certain point a prediction of Tammy's accidental death didn't come true, their conclusion was that her time on Earth had been extended. And there was (allegedly) a third woman whose husband chased Chad away. IMO Chad had been on a wrong path for quite a while before meeting his match in Lori. As much as I'd like to believe that he had been devoted to Tammy until Lori led him astray, it doesn't look that way. Of course he wouldn't get locked up for just being a bad husband. His dark fantasies go way back. For that reason I don't think he's sorry for what he had done.

IMO, a small, but very important detail bridges these two lines of thought.

What is a modern day Mormon man to do when the Church has taught that multiple wives are a requirement for exaltation in the Celestial Kingdom, while at the same time it is against the laws of the United States government?

This, IMO, is the origin of the wish/dream/vision that Tammy would somehow die; because CD truly believed he was destined for exaltation, and wanted exaltation more than anything.

But he did not want to divorce Tammy. In fact, to divorce Tammy, in his mind, would be a sin that would subtract from his exaltation score. The only logical answer was that Tammy would have to die young, leaving him to remarry while never divorced.

To become exalted, another wife for him was necessary. It was what his faith taught. And he had been testing the waters with other women with that idea in mind for years, looking for a suitable candidate who took the idea seriously. He told them of his vision of his wife dying young to let them know that he would soon be legally available for re-marriage.

The hard part of this theory for many is this: in order for Chad to maintain mental integrity to himself and God, if he felt he could not divorce, then he also could not commit murder, or break any commandment. He had to be perfect.

Therefore, he would not have considered murder to be an option, nor would he have even suggested it. But he had met a woman who thought she could make all of his wishes come true. In her own grandiose mind, she thought she was truly supernatural.

Theological conundrums such as this are big topics of conversation among the younger LDS generation who through the internet have voiced their doubts, concerns, and disbelief. But it is acknowledged that among the generation that came of age in the 1980s and before, this was unquestioned historical doctrine straight from the mouths of prophets.

When the modern-day Church has become too "lukewarm", a return to the very beginning, fundamentalism, is the only option.

MOO
 
IMO, a small, but very important detail bridges these two lines of thought.

What is a modern day Mormon man to do when the Church has taught that multiple wives are a requirement for exaltation in the Celestial Kingdom, while at the same time it is against the laws of the United States government?

This, IMO, is the origin of the wish/dream/vision that Tammy would somehow die; because CD truly believed he was destined for exaltation, and wanted exaltation more than anything.

But he did not want to divorce Tammy. In fact, to divorce Tammy, in his mind, would be a sin that would subtract from his exaltation score. The only logical answer was that Tammy would have to die young, leaving him to remarry while never divorced.

To become exalted, another wife for him was necessary. It was what his faith taught. And he had been testing the waters with other women with that idea in mind for years, looking for a suitable candidate who took the idea seriously. He told them of his vision of his wife dying young to let them know that he would soon be legally available for re-marriage.

The hard part of this theory for many is this: in order for Chad to maintain mental integrity to himself and God, if he felt he could not divorce, then he also could not commit murder, or break any commandment. He had to be perfect.

Therefore, he would not have considered murder to be an option, nor would he have even suggested it. But he had met a woman who thought she could make all of his wishes come true. In her own grandiose mind, she thought she was truly supernatural.

Theological conundrums such as this are big topics of conversation among the younger LDS generation who through the internet have voiced their doubts, concerns, and disbelief. But it is acknowledged that among the generation that came of age in the 1980s and before, this was unquestioned historical doctrine straight from the mouths of prophets.

When the modern-day Church has become too "lukewarm", a return to the very beginning, fundamentalism, is the only option.

MOO
I'm not Mormon, but I doubt that "multiple wives are a requirement for exaltation" and "another wife for him was necessary".
 
I've wondered a lot about how psychologically dependent CD was on his wife for common sense, stability and having a normal life. It seems possibly she did all the hard work of the publishing business, she got a good job at a library, she possibly did all the work of raising the kids and maintaining the home. Possibly propped him up, so he was an imposter, just acting his part to please her.

The whole story of what happened once he met LV seems like a plot from a novel or a TV show. I think it's possible he turned to his darkest fantasies and imagination to create his
life with LV, the opposite of the kind of ordinary, middle class life that Tammy had created for him.

I am interested in human psychology, but it's not everyone's thing.

I posted way back that I did not understand how CD and LVD planned (?) to financr their new extravagant future and I wondered if TD had been holding things together financially while CD did whatever. If she was "the grown up in the room" all the time, he could have come to resesnt that. Still, both LVD and CD had been married and seemingly taking care of families* before this, so for both of them, this was a departure and a rebellion. IMO.
___________________________________________________________
( *understand that many now question if there was any quality care going on for a long time)
 
IMO, a small, but very important detail bridges these two lines of thought.

What is a modern day Mormon man to do when the Church has taught that multiple wives are a requirement for exaltation in the Celestial Kingdom, while at the same time it is against the laws of the United States government?

This, IMO, is the origin of the wish/dream/vision that Tammy would somehow die; because CD truly believed he was destined for exaltation, and wanted exaltation more than anything.

But he did not want to divorce Tammy. In fact, to divorce Tammy, in his mind, would be a sin that would subtract from his exaltation score. The only logical answer was that Tammy would have to die young, leaving him to remarry while never divorced.

To become exalted, another wife for him was necessary. It was what his faith taught. And he had been testing the waters with other women with that idea in mind for years, looking for a suitable candidate who took the idea seriously. He told them of his vision of his wife dying young to let them know that he would soon be legally available for re-marriage.

The hard part of this theory for many is this: in order for Chad to maintain mental integrity to himself and God, if he felt he could not divorce, then he also could not commit murder, or break any commandment. He had to be perfect.

Therefore, he would not have considered murder to be an option, nor would he have even suggested it. But he had met a woman who thought she could make all of his wishes come true. In her own grandiose mind, she thought she was truly supernatural.

Theological conundrums such as this are big topics of conversation among the younger LDS generation who through the internet have voiced their doubts, concerns, and disbelief. But it is acknowledged that among the generation that came of age in the 1980s and before, this was unquestioned historical doctrine straight from the mouths of prophets.

When the modern-day Church has become too "lukewarm", a return to the very beginning, fundamentalism, is the only option.

MOO
It’s an interesting train of thought. In this scenario Chad wouldn’t have murdered Tammy, Lori “took care of it”. In his mind perhaps through some goddess exorcism power, not mundane murder.

If he’s truly that whacked burying bodies of soulless children taken over by Zombies would be akin to burying a rabid raccoon if not for those pesky laws and the damn government.

Personally I think he’s no more than a middle-aged man who transcended a garden variety mid-life crisis in hopes of fame/respect, fortune and hot nooky. If only he had bought a red convertible and been done with it.

MOO
 
ONE YEAR LATER: 9/22/19 is the day of the last verified sighting of JJ Vallow. Investigators say JJ was seen asleep in the arms of his uncle Alex Cox. The next morning JJ’s mom Lori Vallow told friends he’d been acting “like a zombie.” FBI found the 7yo boy’s remains on 6/9/20.

https://twitter.com/jlumfox10/status/1308475960283389954
 
To me she seems like a complete dangerous narcissist.....her own daughter was too much bother might as well murder her. And here comes CD telling her she is a God, music to a narcissist’s ears.....her husband didn’t realize she was a God and just thought she was nuts, so who is she going to prefer? Now for CD, she looks kinda like Barbie....long blonde hair, beautiful, sexy, young,looking. His sane wife doesn’t have that vibe, TD looked more matronly and maternal.....so Chad goes for sex, and LV goes for ego, and they both go after the insurance money. Sex, ego and money....

The daughter she had raised and known for 16 years, mind.

I'm also speculating/assuming that a large portion of Lori's sexual attraction to dumpy Chad (don't we know for a fact that she told MG they were having sex 2x/day?) was ego gratification and extra excitement that she was a Goddess getting it on with the Prophet (ew... I grossed myself typing that out, but it had to be said, because who otherwise would be that warm for Chad's form?).
 
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